Reflux & Colic General Chatter & Support

[scarlet121]

Sally I am surprised that your dr hasn't given you any medication for reflux before now. Most premmies do have reflux and need treatment for it.

Is he is pain, is he loosing weight or disinterested in eating? These are signs that he needs medication.

I was told a long time ago that all babies outgrow it by one, and a large number do but not all, my son is almost 3 and a half and still has reflux.

You can ask to see a specialist gastro dr to discuss testing or a general paed to watch it all. There are medications to stop the acid content but none really to stop the vomitting, since this is due to a muscle problem that meds won't fix, generally time fixes it. So it all comes down to how is he doing generally, if he is gaining and eating well, but just vomitting a little, then i would leave him as he is, but if he is in pain or irritable, not sleeping, not gaining etc... then I would definately ask for some medication.

[Early Kids]

thanks for that He doesn't have acid reflux, just general reflux just to do with muscles. It hasn't affected his weight gain so far.... but in the last 5 weeks he has only gained 1/2 of what he normally does, so this next month will be a telling one. I see a health nurse when i get back from Melb (leaving tomorrow).

Thanks so much

[scarlet121]

Acid reflux and reflux are the same thing if you are talking about the weak muscles, but you are quite right it doesn't sound like he has acid when he refluxes if he is generally pretty good and doesn't seem to be in pain.

I hope that it isn't affecting his weight, but also when they are around the one stage they don't put on as much as they did before so maybe his slow down is normal for him. I hope so! Good luck.

[Early Kids]

He doesn't seem bothered by it mostly.... luckily. It's just really annoying more than anything! But seeing how the Paed said there's nothing I can do... I guess I'll just wait for him to grow out of it! He sleeps on his side now, So that helps a little.

Thank you so much for your help

[JSMUM]

AM hoping someone may have some extra tips for me - my little man was born at 38 wks, so not to early, but acted like a prem - couldn;t suck OR swallow properly - and he still doesn't have a strong suck.

We tube fed (and BF) for 1.5 weeks, then had a good wk, but at about 2.5 wks he turned into the monster from hell - he screamed continuously, and at an ear piercing, distressingly high pitch, and stopped sleeping, and from about 1/2 hr after a feed he starts gulping and frothing at the mouth. And combined with that, he wanted to feed almost continuously.

We suspected reflux so have his mattress at an angle, but this didn't help.

As he was only 3wks old, we went to a GP (you cant buy reflux meds over the counter for bubs under 6 wks) - he prescribed Gaviscon infant - this didn't seem to help, and just made him a bit constipated (he went from pooing every feed to once a day, and would get himself even more worked up until he had managed to get it out)

About 4 days later. he was even more hysterical, so we ended up back at the docs and they put us back into hospital - here they said that he was over feeding, didn't have reflux at all, and made me let him cry to sleep.

Got out of hospital and he was still feral, but at the next paed appt, the doc looked at me like I was nuts for believing he didn't have reflux. Prescribed Zantac at this point.

Tried the Zantac for a week with absolutely no relief - he still screamed hysterically, and it also seemed to burn him or something when I gave him the meds. The paed also told me to try him on Guarcol at the same time (he is BF) so that there would be some thickener in his stomach - made up into a gel and fed before during and after a feed.

Next step, the paed prescribed Zoton - same as Losec - I got this made into a suspension so there are no lumpy bits/beads - it is expensive ($40/100ml - last 20 days), but it seems to work at nuetralising the acid - even if I do get him to sleep without holding him, he stills wakes himself up after half an hour gulping, which then gives him wind.

I have now given up the Guarcol - the screaming it caused trying to feed a 6wk old a gel (basically a solid) wasn't worth it and it didn't seem to help, but am still using the Zoton, but I can not get him to sleep without holding him. He literlaly sleeps maybe 4 - 6 hours in a 24 hr period - if I hold him, and for much of the remaining time, he screams.

I am desperate - does anyone out there have any more tips or suggestions on things I can try?

[Early Kids]

I am so sorry, I can't think of anything you can try

I relly hope you can find something that works for you

[scarlet121]

JS mum, I am so sorry to hear that your little one has reflux, unfortunately I have heard too many times that doctors dont listen, or put it down to something like overfeeding (when the child won't even feed) I mean there is so much out there on reflux now and for them to still have these views is not good enough, I am so sorry that they have confused you so much.

I do have some suggestions,
Feed upright as much as you can
If he starts to get hysterical, take him to a quiet dark room, a refluxer gets overstimulated really quickly and once they start it is hard to stop them.
If you are still breastfeeding, try and eliminate soy and dairy out of your diet and see if that helps
If you are formula feeding a hypoallergenic or hydrolysed formula is best for refluxers, soy milk is no good, neither is lactose free or AR formulas, as they are generally cows based.
Keep him as upright as possible
Keep upright after a feed
Raise the cot put books under the mattress or under the legs of the cot/bassinette
Introduce a dummy

WIth the medicine, I really hope it works for you guys, I just do have some concerns though, and this is from just being through this a lot with both my son and other parents and that is that compounds do not last as long as they say they will.

In a lab setting it is fine but in terms of how the kids do on it, you will find that somewhere between the 7-14 day mark the symptoms may start to come back. This is because with time the med becomes unstable. If you notice this, you may want to get the meds made every two weeks instead of 20 days. Zoton actually is known for going off a lot quicker than losec (Losec and zoton are different meds)

I have seen it many, many times the pharmacy tells you it is good for 4 weeks or so and what happens is that when you get a refill it works really well and then as time goes on, the symptoms come back and back and then you get it refilled again and it works well again.

I was told we were allowed to use links again, but if not can a mod delete these for me.
Here are treatments, I wrote these articles (Zoton is Prevacid here)
http://infantrefluxdisease.com/treat...x-and-gerd.php
http://infantrefluxdisease.com/preva...nsoprazole.php
http://infantrefluxdisease.com/help-infant-reflux.php

There are so many degrees of reflux, it is important to understand it in case other side effects may occur (like failing to eat or drink, or putting on weight, infections) and knowing that this is part of the reflux.

If you have any more questions please ask

[Catriona77]

Hi ladies,
I hope you can help me. I have a beautiful 17 day old baby boy. I suspect that he has silent reflux.
He likes to feed until he falls asleep at the boob, if detach earlier, will wake up and cry.
He generally settles very well during the night as there is low lights and very quiet. But come morning, he is very difficult to settle. He falls asleep at the boob, sleeps for 40 mins, then wakes up wanting to feed. Then he would stay awake for 2 hours until he is ready to fall asleep at the boob. repeat cycle. As you can imagine, I feel like I am stuck breastfeeding 24/7.
He is very alert when he is awake which I interpret as a sign of over-tiredness/over stimulation(?) not sure if I am correct here.
He seems to be swallowing or chewing on nothing
He shows grimaces while awake and sleeping as well.

I would love enjoy my baby boy and really breaks my heart to know that he might be in pain in silence and I am not doing anything about it.
I have elevated the cot but because he has been falling asleep while feeding (laying down as my flow is very quick and seems to choke him), so I just let him sleep on the big bed for fear of waking him up moving him to his cot (so sad isn't it!!)
Now all I seem to do is pray that he sleeps for at least 2-3 hours instead of 30-40 mins as the poor little man is just so tired!!

I will be going to my GP tomorrow for some answers. Any suggestions of what to ask of the doctor? Do you think that a GP would be able to help me out as the symtoms are very "mild"?
Or I could be mis-diagonsing it as silent reflux when instead my DS is just difficult?

[Happymumma]

Hey All
I'm new to all this chat stuff but have found it very hard to find anyone in the same situation as myself. My 4 month daughter has been suffering from reflux since about 6 weeks but it took a long time to diagnose as everyone told me it must have been something I was doing, such as breastfeeding supply issues etc. Anyway, she's doing a lot better on Losec but still spews all day, takes hours to settle and isn't a great feeder.

My question relates to night waking. She has, at times, slept for about 6 or 7 hours but in past month has been waking every 3 or 4 hours for big feeds!!! This is despite having 5 average feeds during the day.
Has anyone got a reflux baby that sleeps through the night or do they need to wake up for feeds to help settle their tummy!
Or is she getting bigger and needing more milk, she is solely breastfeed.
I'm wondering If i should jump on the solids bandwagon or wait?
Has anyone been through this? and does it get better as they grow - i'm starting to feel (and look) like an old lady!!!!!!!

Thanks for any advice - sometimes it's like everyone else has a perfect baby and people say 'so has she STILL got reflux' and i'm like, yes it's not a 24-hour thing!

[kellmay]

HI happymumma i don,t have a lot of time at the moment but i also have a refluxer and that you are saying can be norm for a reflux baby. i know its sooooo upsetting when things are goinf backwards but try to keep yous chin up and everyone has probs with there bubs and if anyone tells you any diff they are lying. this to will past is what i tell myself. will post again when my bub is sleeping ???????????????????? You are doing all you can

[kellmay]

Hi again happymumma, you would not believe it but bub woke the second i typed H go figure, but we will see how i go. My bub is number 2 and he is now 20wks and has had reflux from around 3 weeks old. i tried in vain to breastfeed but gave up as the breast rejection was to upsetting.He is on Zantac Mylanta and thickener after feeds.He is not a comfort eater like some,he just refuses to drink from about 10 at night till 3 in the afternoon then fights the rest of the time.

i guess you are doing all the elevation and stuff that we all know. somethings that have been suggested to me by my 70yr old baby health nurse that seems to know everything that you may not have tried is expressing some foremilk before you feed so they get the richer fatter hindmilk (esp if bub is feeding for short times during the day and make sure your diet is high in protein as this slows the digestion of the milk. also do you feed him before you go to bed so that he is not waking you shortly after your asleep.

My bub sleeps thur generally 50/50 but normally feeds at 10.30 and at 3ish if he is going to feed sometimes he will take it sometimes he will not. We tried rice about 4 weeks ago and he would not take it but i tried it again in the last couple of days and is taking it well. But it seems to have no effect on his sleeping good or bad but i needed to see something going in his tummy!!!!!.

i also found he was waking alot during the night for a while and warmer PJS, a sleeping bags and a warmer wrap seemed to help.

Anyway try to look at the good things with your bub and remember that other mums may look like they crusin' thur motherhood but behind closed doors we all have our hard times. Just try to love your baby and give yourself a little slack.

[Happymumma]

Hi Kellmay

Thanks so much for you kind words. This week has been particularly bad and i've been trying to think that it could be worse and not get too bogged down about it all.
Her night feeds are now causing problems and her spews are very acidic - even though she's on Losec, one of the best treatments. It might just be an off week or could be because of her 4 months shots!!!
I've also started rice cereal with breastmilk although so far hasn't done much but like you say at least i know she is getting those calories.
I'll def try expressing to get rid of foremilk as her 3 minute feeds probably aren't getting past that - and that is the highest in fat for sure.
Another drama is she is now refusing a bottle - ! So am trying every which was to get her to take it again because we've got a night out planned next month.. any tips on that one - i've tried all the sneaky ones such as swapping boob for bottle, trying when hungry, full, tired, etc but no luck.
I really appreciate your response - and it's precious princess that i feel most sorry for - she writhes in pain then i try to make her smile and she does even though i know she's in pain.
Thanks

[kellmay]

Hi happymumma hope all is improving for you guys,

These are the tips i was given about introducing the bottle.
find a nipple like yours ( short or long), with flow like yours (slow or fast).
start with the first bottle when bub is hungriest ( if thats ever with a refluxer).
never force the bottle, its not as nice as a warm boobie.stop after 5 mins or bub will get an aversion to it and leave it for 10 mins takeing the bottle away then try again.
try every hour for the first day, you need to be strong ( hubby on the weekend may be best).
let someone other than you try .
if bub refuses the bottle do not give the breast, they say most bubs will take it after 3 or 4 hours, yours like mine may take longer.
once bub is okish with the bottle give it at least once a day.
You have alot on your plate already and this can be a real battle, you need to start when you think you can see it though


My super wonderful baby health nurse also had me on 6 serves of protein a day when i was breastfeeding with the first one being at 6 in the morning (i had milk) as it takes 12 hours to get into your milk, that did make a big diff to the night time feeds, plus i had to keep offering the breast till he had 15-20 min of active sucking time

if things do not get better soon i would see you doc and see a specalist - we are of there next week, hopefully we will get some help. My bub is now refusing soilds as well, but he is sleeping really well, go figure.

Know you are not the only one fighting this battle

[Happymumma]

Well, this weekend we are trying your method of getting bub to take the bottle. Fingers crossed. However, I have had some wins recently, most importantly she has stopped having lots of feeds at night and now can go longer without waking up. This has happened since I have started sleeping her on her tummy at night. Contrary to all the advice I have been given my precious sleeps so much better on her tummy, I imagine because the eases the reflux pain. So now she only wakes up once or so. I've also weaned her off the dummy as was constantly running in to replace it when it fell out. So i feel like i'm slowly winning the battle at the moment. She has started to put her hands in her mouth to help her sleep which is great because she doesn't need the dummy to help her sleep -
Thanks for your advice and i'm hoping by the end of the weekend she will be taking a bottle so hubby and I can go on our planned overnight in 2 week's time.
Lil miss is also loving her rice cereal and at nights pumpkin mixed with it - i'm sure this is some of the reason why she isn't spewing as much.
fingers crossed your bub is now enjoying solids too?

[kellmay]

WOW
how good are you!!! So happy to hear things are going so well, you must be feel so much better.
My bub is stalling a bit at the moment but we are in an ok place so we are happy.
We seen a pead spec and she changed his med (the mylanta is gone !!!!!!so happy, hate that stuff)He is just using losec once a day thats it, saving me hours a day get 3 different meds in plus food and bottles. Still only drinking 600 ml a day from 3pm to 10pm and very little the rest of the day but is loving food taking 1/4 cup three times a day. He is sleeping till 5-6 and taking to himself till we get up and two good sleep with a little nap in the afternoon so i cannot complian too much.
Anyway SOOOO happy things sound on the up and up for you and you are getting more sleep.Keep up the good work,you ROCK!

[Happymumma]

Great news about meds, Losec has been our lifesaver, i give it to her in syringe with water with success, most of the times. How do you get bub to take it? On the bottle front, we were prepared for a mission, eg spending a whole day trying every hour but she took it first go from dad, and then wanted more!! Might be because we've introduced a sippa cup that she can grab and chew so might have loved the fact there was not just water in bottle but milk. Either way we're rapt because it gives me a lot more freedom now. 5 months and things are slowly on the upper, but i don't want to jinx it just yet. She even slept from 6.30 to 4am the other night and the next the same but woke at 1.30 for feed cos had a short one for dinner!
I don't want to jinx it.
What do you find is best food to give reflux bubs, she doesn't seem to take to apple, doesn't mind banana, I've heard avocado is good but is that better for dinner or breakfast. We're just doing 2 solids at moment - she really just loves the rice cereal and loves pumpkin too!
I'm glad you're at a good place - doesn't it make motherhood more pleasant, especially considering you've got another one running around I'm sure you've got it a lot harder than I have.

[kellmay]

HEY
glad the bottle went so well for you it really will help you get so life back. and hows that overnight stuff - FAB U LAS. It is true what they say all things will pass.
my bub is only having rice cereal pear and carrot at the mintue as he is having allergy tests in a couple of weeks but i posted on another site asking if there are any foods which sholud be avoided or set off reflux so will past that on if anything shows up.
Thankfully my 4 year old is an angel and i actully miss him when he is at preschool he gives me something other bubby to enjoy.

[ShootingStar]

Hey ladies.
My DD has been diagnosed with Reflux. Tried Gaviscon for her and just made her constipated and didnt make a difference. Doctor suggested the AF formula and she is now on Karicare AR. She is using Avent bottles. Ive tried the normal teats with her.. even making them bigger with a needle or even more holes and they just send her frustraited that she cant get any out. So started using the Variable Flow ones and they work fine, just she spills alot. Just curious what everyone else is using?

TIA!