Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)

[razzle]

I was just wondering if anyone out there has a child who suffers from ODD?

My DS(9) has always been a 'difficult' child and after doing some research I feel that it is very likely that he has this.

I have an appointment with a peadiatrician next week.

It all started when he was about 2 and for the past 7 years I have been thinking that he will grow out of it. Not gonna happen!

I changed his diet when he was about 4 years old, not allowing certain preservatives, too much sugar and highly processed foods. He only occasionally has lollies/chocolate and in the last couple of weeks I have taken away soft drink altogether.

I love my little man so much and part of me feels he can't control himself sometimes, but this is extemely hard to deal with. I am at my wits end.

Any comments/advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Pandora]

Hi there, I dont really have much experience with this but just wanted to give you a
I have had a bit of a look at a few ODD sites, cos some of it sounds like DS, but he's only 2 so its hard to tell if its terrible twos and will pass, or something else..

I hope it goes well with the paed, let us know how you get on.

[razzle]

Thanks so much rayray! I really appreciate that. Hoping to find some answers to it all soon.

[Pandora]

Did you see your paed yet?
I was speaking to my mum about my DS and she reckons his behaviour is just normal for his age, but also mentioned that her neighbours son was diagnosed years ago with ODD. He has most of the main symptoms, and it has been, on the whole, under control and hasnt progressed to the next, more antisocial level thanks to early intervention.

[cindyb]

One of my brothers has ODD and was diagnosed when he was about 9 and he was a nightmare growing up, he has learning probs too and ADHD which doesnt help and was a heroin addicted baby (we adopted him when he was 3) so all that made for many a struggle between my mum and him as you can imagine.
Now though - I would say he still has it but is more aware (now 23) of it but he still, if you tell him something is black he will go on and on about how its white. He cant help himself but i have to say he gets in to the 'argument' and then all of a sudden he will just shut up coz he realises he is doing his thing again! it had to be hard for these kids not being able to control themselves.

How have you gone with the paed?

[razzle]

Hi girls,

Thanks for your replies.

We went to see the pead on Tuesday and unfortunately did not find any answers. Actually I felt that the doctor sort of fobbed be me off to be quite honest. He spent a bit of time getting to know DS, asking him all about himself, school, friends etc. DS was very co-operative and unbelievably polite - which he can be of course to other people - the problem is more with DF and myself, which is a common sympton of ODD ie. that the child will argue and be more defiant with the adults they are close to. The doctor then had DS play with some toys (still in the same room) while he asked me some questions about my pregnancy and the labour. DS was 8 weeks premature and I have heard, don't know how true this is, that babies born early - before 37 weeks - are more likely to suffer from conditions like ADD, ADHD, ODD etc.

We then spoke a bit about his biological father and his problems with drugs and alcohol and the doctor asked if I saw similarities between him and DS. When I said yes, and that it scares me, he said that he could be a 'chip off the old block'!!!! OMG, what am I supposed to do with that information???? I was really annoyed at that stage and then he went on to say that the whole step parent/new baby in the house could be the cause of things and would probably settle down soon because - "he is 9 now and he will probably grow out of it" - UM!! I had told him straight up this behaviour had been going on for over 7 years and that he was like it while I was still with his father and that I didn't feel that having a new baby had made it worse.

He then checked him over, his weigth, height etc which was all fine and then said to come back in 6 weeks if everything was still the same. Well, after 7 years of it being like this why does he think that it will be gone in 6 weeks????

Anyway, he suggested that DF and I go and do a parenting program, which we will. It is the Triple P one, has anyone heard of it? I posted in the parenting thread asking if anyone had taken part in it but havent received any replies.

Oh and before I was leaving he said "because he is so calm here I won't prescribe anything". Well thats good because I wouldn't be giving him anything anyway!!!!

I've decided that I will go back to my doctor and ask for another referral but this time to see a psychologist. There is a history of mental illness in my family so I need to get on top of this, I'm scared for my little man.

rayray - yeah a lot of the symptons are associated with the 'terrible twos' but most kids grow out of that, whereas kids with ODD seem to keep on with that defiant behaviour.

cindyb - that arguing is such classic behaivour. Oh my DS is great at that one. And they actually thrive on these arguments. It is very sad.

Sorry for the rambling girls! Thanks for your interest BTW.

[Pandora]

Srry about your expereince with the paed. Maybe you could get a referral to a different one of those too.
Yeah my mums neighbour took her son initially (or very early on) to a child psychologist, maybe try to get a referral to one who specialises in it, as they wpuld be in the best place to make an assessment.
The Australian Psychological Society has a 'find a psychologist' section where you can search on specialties, age groups etc.

[Stars69]

Hi Olimoo,

I would ask to have him assessed by a pysch.

Not speaking from experience but I completed a course in integration and one of the lengthier subjects was ODD.

It needs to be diagnosed correctly as I am sure you are aware, but we were advised it is most common in boys and generally the father will carry traits of this disorder.

It can be present in conjuction with other things such as ADD, so I would definately seek a referral.

Hugs for you though, it has obviously been difficult for you. Maybe wait to do the parenting program after he has been assessed properly - you may find that you are doing things right now and may just need to tweak a few things here and there.

He's a lucky boy having such caring parents, I know we were informed how many children get left behind or moved on because they are difficult and dont learn how to control themselves so end up with anger management problems etc.

All the best, hope you let us know how you go with everything

[monnie]

Hi

Sorry to hear about your experience with the Paed. Unfortunately I don't think that it's such a rare occurrence.

I've worked for many years in the area of child and adolescent mental health and ODD, like any mental health issue, is complex to diagnose. Assessment needs to be thorough...including covering areas such as family history, developmental history, medical history, schooling issues, etc. Sometimes the assessment is even best done by a team of professionals.

The parenting programme, Triple P is really well known around Australia. It's a positive parenting programme and is fantastic, but you might find that with the significant difficulties that you are experiencing, that you will need more support than what Triple P offers.

You can access services through your local child and adolescent mental health clinic (CAMHS). It's a government service, and generally very thorough...although the waiting lists can be long.

If you are going to go to a private Clinical Psychologist, see if your GP is happy to refer your son under a GP mental health plan to a Medicare registered Clinical Psychologist. That way you can access up to 12 individual sessions/year that are mostly covered by a Medicare rebate. The Medicare Scheme is called "ALLIED MENTAL HEALTH MEDICARE SERVICES: PSYCHOLOGICAL THERAPY AND FOCUSSED PSYCHOLOGICAL STRATEGIES".

Good luck!

[Lulu]

I haven't done Triple P, I heard it's great but we did 1,2,3 Magic and I really enjoyed it.

Certainly do one or both if you can. I've had friends that did Triple P , it did wonders for them. The most important thing I learnt is to have a united front on the parenting side, yes for your kids but also for your relationship. It can be very hard on both parents - I like the support and the people running it may be able to help you further or send you to a different paed/psych.

Good luck

[cindyb]

The PPP is fantastic - my sister is accredited to run them but just doesnt have the money to buy all the resources to hand out etc at the moment but i have only ever heard great reports from people who have been to it - it is quite intensive though.
I am so sorry ot hear that the paed fobbed you off like that! I would be going to a psych too!

[razzle]

Thankyou all for your replies and advice!!

I have decided I will definitley take DS to see a psychologist - I was told I might not need a doctors referal for this so I'm making an appointment to see one that I found on the Australian Psychological Society site - thanks for that rayray!!!

I believe his biological father is an ODD sufferer as well, but unfortunatley he never got the help and is only now - at the age of 36 - getting his life on track. I won't let DS to go down this same path!!!

I am also booked in to go to a Triple P seminar at the end of the month.

I will let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again.

[cindyb]

That all sounds fantastic! It great that you have been able to get on to it all fairly quickly.
With the referral - i believe you only need one when you go to any kind of specialist so that you can claim part of the bill back from medicare..

Good luck with all your appointments coming up!

That kid of yours has a great mum!

[Pandora]

Get the referral that Monnie suggested, i.e.

If you are going to go to a private Clinical Psychologist, see if your GP is happy to refer your son under a GP mental health plan to a Medicare registered Clinical Psychologist. That way you can access up to 12 individual sessions/year that are mostly covered by a Medicare rebate. The Medicare Scheme is called "ALLIED MENTAL HEALTH MEDICARE SERVICES: PSYCHOLOGICAL THERAPY AND FOCUSSED PSYCHOLOGICAL STRATEGIES".

That way you hopefully will not have to pay quite as much.

[razzle]

rayray - thanks, I will do that. DS's dad has agreed to share the costs with DF and I so am very happy about that.

cindyb - thanks for your comment about me being a good mum!! A couple of months ago I had an argument with DF's family over DS's behaivour. His mum is very old school and she told me that my "son is a manipulator who is going to turn out just like his father". And then proceeded to call me a bad mum. I know I'm not - I'm doing the best that I can. Needless to say, we no longer speak!

[Caramagic]

Olimoo, (this is my first ever contribution, so I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, etiquette etc.) My son (nearly 11) seems to have most of the signs of ODD, and I could emphathise with your visit to the Paed. I did the same thing, sat down with him to find out the school hadn't sent any info to the Dr. , so there I am trying to use great tact in front of DS to convey what I needed to the Dr. The Dr just didnt seem to appreciate this, and after doing basic things like weighing DS, basically just said 'well not everyone does well at school, so encourage him in the things he does do well with, like sport'. I was very annoyed at both the school principal and the Dr. and I wouldn't bother going back to him. My son mainly shows his anger and anxiety in front of me, and less in front of his father. He describes his father as 'gross' but DS will happily go to the footy and other places with his dad. I know his dad does have some less than ideal habits, but its DS's obsessive trait that makes him harp on about DH. He can't stand DH having any physical/affectionate contact with me. I am thankful that the school holidays are now over, because at least once every day, there would be a scene with him getting upset and pedantic over something, then going on to blame his father and sister for all of it, as usual! Recently, he keeps saying he wants to join Scouts, hopefully he will like it and get some benefit, but I'm pretty doubtful he'll enjoy the quiet stuff. He's just stressing now due to fraction/decimal maths homework he brought home last night, which he doesn't really understand or even want to, so it's not a great start to the new term.

[~clover~]

Hi. You started this thread a while ago, so not sure if you'll get to reading this.
Anyway, I've been having probs with my 6 year old. She is seeing a psycologist. I got an appt with him from my ECHN. I told her I was having probs & she helped me out.
She only saw him for the 2nd time today, but I had a quick look on here before I left to see what I could find & found your thread. Just the name says it all!!
I looked it up & it sounds just like my DD. Arguing no end & always having to have the last word no matter how much trouble she's in. & everything else on the list.
Any way I asked him about it & he said it had crossed his mind, but that she is very young for it. But because I suggested it he wants to look into it a bit further. He's going to talk to her school & see me without her next week to talk a bit more about her without her there listening. Last time she came home using things he'd said to try to get her own way.
He told me he could diagnose himself, but that it would take a while. Instead we are going to have a video conference with the head of psycology at Westmead childrens hospital. Apparently that's the best way.

So yeah, if I was you, next time u see the ECHN tell her you are having probs & get her to find someone.

[mountain mummy]

I just came across this thread, as i was going to post about all the probs we are having with our 7 (almost 8) year old!! Sounds IDENTICAL!!! I even googled ODD and the stuff they were saying that it can progress into CD - my son has already displayed those symptoms for the last two years!

He is VERY argumentative, blames everyone else for his actions (and anything that goes wrong), he lies BLATANTLY LIES to my face (and DP's), he steals - it started off with lollies etc from the cupboard, so we put a lock on the door which he broke, now it has progressed to stealing his sister's nintendo DS and taking it to school ... and when we talk to him and ask why he does this he says cause he doesn't like himself (low self esteem).

It's like he doesn't care about anything - school rules, house rules ... I originally thought it was to do with his age and something that he would grow out of ... he was showing signs of being bored at school (he was at an independent school similar to Steiner and they were holding him back academically "to keep everyone together as a group" so they said) so we changed schools where he was challenged more and became less disruptive (in hindsight, more secretive and devious). He doesn't appear to struggle with school work (I talk to his teacher a fair bit in regards to this) In fact he is one of the brightest in his class.

But he just has no regard or respect for anyone or anything and he just seems to be getting worse. I am at my wits end cause banning him from things doesn't work, taking things away doesn't work, punishing him doesn't work, giving him extra chores, or time limits for his chore doesn't work. We have tried EVERYTHING. Everyone else in the house suffers because we can't have treats in the house anymore and it's getting to the point where we can't have games/toys either!

DP and I agree on our parenting style and never undermine each other (although DS tries to play us against each other )

I have been considering counselling for a while and keep suggesting it to DP, maybe we'll try getting a referral to a psychologist through our ECHN ...

Can I just say it's a relief to know it's not just me (well us) and that it's not something specific that I have or haven't done!