Baby Led Solids Chatter #4

I haven't been in here for ages - looks like you've all been very busy talking :).

I have finally got a copy of Baby-led Weaning by Gill Rapley and Tracey Murkett. I've had it on hold at the library for months and months and it finally came in. I wish I had read it from the very beginning - I would have doubted myself so much less, and just been more relaxed in general about DS and food. I'm only a couple of chapters in, but I'm already finding myself more content with going down the BLS path. It's a great read!

We are going well with food here. DS has developed his pincer grip in the past month or so, which has made meals slightly easier cause he can pick up all those smaller bits and pieces.
We tried blueberries the other day, and he LOVED them! Just wanted more, more, more!

DS has also discovered gravity recently. For the past 3 weeks or so, once he's finished with his meal he'll start picking up pieces of left over food, holding them over the side of the high chair and letting them drop. He then leans over his high chair to get a good look at how the food splats! A few times he has been downright cheeky about it, and looked at me right before he drops the food to see how I'll react. I know it's all part of experimenting, but I don't want to encourage it either. Saying "no" just turns it into a game (I can't seem to say it firmly enough), so I've taken to basically ignoring the behaviour. Anyone else having this problem? How do you deal with it?

pmsl sterla!! DD does the same!! When she's done she chucks everything else off one by one. She looks at you with a cheeky look holding it over the side then lets it go.

Saying 'no' doesn't seem to work so I just ignore it now too. I don't know how many bloody sippy cups she's broken!!

I was never getting organised enough to have some warmish (I've got expressed stuff in the fridge most days for the next day of childcare) EBM so I went down the path of mixing it in with some Rafferty's fruit mix stuff. DS's skin is clearly up finally (after 2 months of trying various creams) and he doesn't mind the taste, just gives me a slightly funny look as to why is this cold but still eats it happily - sometimes he even helps with the spoon.
We have done a bit of BLS too - last night we tried some porterhouse steak (made it into his mouth for a few sucks), broccoli (wasn't too sure about it) and carrot (needed some help to get it too his mouth - DH likes to help DS a bit). He does like his roast parsnip though - might make some up for him to have at childcare as they're asking if he's started solids yet and apparently he wants to "steal" others food when they eat - or he has that look in his eyes :lol:

Leckert - DS loved all roast vegies so we used to make a batch of them. Sweet potato and pumpkin were his favourites. He also didn't and still doesn't like broccoli!!

Sterla and Heaven - Re: gravity and not encouraging, we also had the same thing. Still do every now and again. Ignoring is really the best thing but of course it does get a bit repetitive and annoying. We finally managed to come up with a solution that continues to work really well for us. As it was always done at the end of the meal when he had had enough (except for picking randomly) we figured it was part of his sign that he'd had enough. So on this cue we do the Auslan sign for 'finished' which is the thumbs up sign and you rotate your wrist side to side (you could google Auslan and Finished to get a demo) and then we take the plate and any bits and pieces away. Very quickly he caught on, and actually started handing the plate to us followed by picking the pieces up one by one and putting them back on the plate for us to take away. Even though he initiates it now, we still make the sign and say 'finished'. He still doesn't make the sign but recently we noticed him holding his hand up and rotating his hand in what looks like a random fashion but have come to realise that this is him making the sign as best as he can. The key to this idea is consistency. When you say finished you take the plate away. We know if he isn't ready to finish because he quickly starts eating properly again. But if he hands us the plate we take it away. We don't ask him to finish anything or eat anything else on the plate. You also have to get anyone else who might supervise their eating to do it too.

People see us do this in public and are just amazed, not only at how well he eats, but also that he cleans up after himself :rofl:

CAH - It is certainly a good sign that she is picking them up and then tasting and sucking them. She is certainly on the right track. I can only suggest to move more and more to finger foods and at the very least more lumps. Because she was 1 month prem you might find that her development is not at a stage yet to process the eating of chunkier foods, but she won't learn to if she keeps getting smooth puree and that is her preference. But of course that is your call, but I think you might need to be a bit more patient with waiting for her to eat finger foods. Don't lose faith - remember that BLS is about them leading the way and they will only move as far forward as they are physically, emotionally or mentally able with everything in their lives. They all develop at different rates. :hug:

Grrrr - why can't people open their minds up???

I was just telling my mum all about the book Baby-led Weaning. I was excited about it, and she bascially shot me down and made it sound like she thought it was nothing more than a silly trend that will pass and that spoon feeding is the 'right' way. :(

Tell her that spoon feeding is the passing trend and this is the new way that MCHNs are recommending. It is just starting now but it is based on wheat people used to do before blenders were invented!!! :lol:

My Mum was sceptical too (not that openly though, but she knows better than that when it comes to me!!) until she saw it in action. Her concern was that he wouldn't get enough to eat, but now she enjoys making him all this different food to see what he likes to eat and how he eats it!! She even started telling all her friends about it! Perhaps give your Mum the book when you have finished reading and tell her to read it just to understand where you are coming from and why you would like your parenting preferences to be supported.

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My Mum was sceptical too (not that openly though, but she knows better than that when it comes to me!!) until she saw it in action.

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my mum was a bit the same i think but then he loved something she'd made & now she's sold on the idea...don't think she can resist someone who loves her cooking :lol:

My MIL is the one who doesn't agree with BLS - because in her words "it's too messy". :rolleyes: She always insists on trying to spoon feed Maya.


MT, sterla and heaven - Saying 'no' to food being dropped didn't work for me either and it did turn it into a game too. We do the same thing as MT now - say "Finished" (we say it not sign it) and then we pick up the food on her tray and take her plate away. Now when she's finished she will pick up the bits of food on her tray and put it in her bowl, then pass the bowl to me. :) Sometimes she will still drop food on the ground of course, but when I take her bowl away and start cleaning up, she'll stop dropping food and help me clean up. :)

Georgi - Maya won't eat my spag bol, but I might try your recipe as it sounds yum and DH and I can always eat it if she won't. :lol: Maya will eat a recipe I found in a baby book which is almost like spag bol but instead of using tomatoes as the basis you use lentils. She loves it and it is a way I can get some meat into her. I love it too and always end up making a huge batch and steal some for myself. :)

So the only way I can get meat into Maya is with my lentil spag bol and a casserole in the slow cooker. She will occasionally eat some roast chicken and fish too. So maybe I just need to stick with what she will eat for now and keep giving her new things to try. I guess I've been worried because she won't eat chunks of meat, but I don't know how to change that.

My mum has been fairly supportive of BLS (hasn't openly critisised it) but she still gets all nervous when Kyson has food in his mouth and thinks he's going to choke. Last week we were at her house and Kyson was eating some hamburger (just the meat) that mum had cooked. He was sitting right next to me and I was watching him and then my mum started saying "Oh! He's got a really big bit in his mouth! Quick, he's got a big bit". Then she was looking at me to take it out of his mouth. I just calmly said "it's ok, he knows how to chew and if it's too bit he'll spit it out". Kyson then proceeded to happily munch away at the meat in his mouth until it was all swallowed and then shoved in some more, hehe.

I love it when the bubs prove the critics wrong!! They say it all without saying a word!!

did anyone else find it hard not to interfere when their babies were just starting out? like today i gave DS some ristto with his lunch - and my intention was just to let him feel the rice etc but it was so hard not to start picking bits off as he dropped them on his bib & to clean up the mess of rice that was smeared across the tray :redface: and that makes me sound like some sort of neat freak which i most def am not :lol: but it's also things like him eating a piece of cantaloupe/rockmelon skin side up & not recitifying it for him.

there was something else i was meaning to ask but now i've forgotten :wall:

Sloane: Yup, I am always having to remind myself to just let DS do what he wants with the food - mainly because of the mess factor. I'm okay with most things, but when he starts rubbing yogurt, or porridge through his hair and in his eyes... :doh:
I take a deep breathe and remind myself, it's just mess, it's just mess.

I'm going to post a general thread about this too, but I thought I'd ask here first. Does anyone else's bubbas absolutely hate getting cleaned up? DS hates it (always has), and some days I just find it all rather stressful. If he's already tired (usually breakfast time is worst) he will just scream and cry - honestly he sounds like he's in pain, and I'm certainly not hurting him. Sometimes he'll even cry just when he sees me getting a cloth out :(.

sterla - yes! DS absolutely hates having his face & hands wiped. he only cries if he's tired but he gets annoyed every time. it's like he's offended when i get the cloth out!

Sterla, yep DS hates getting cleaned up after meals!! I started making it a bit of fun, sing a song, play with him or distract him somehow while I'm cleaning him up. Sometimes it works, it just depends how tired he is.
I'm hoping its just a stage, because the noise he makes when he's not happy is not fun to have right in your ear!

Sloane - Oh I think it is definitely part of the Mummy territory to want to help. It is no big deal, just try to avoid hovering and staring and helping when they are obviously trying to figure it out themselves. Over time you will find yourself helping less and less when it is unnecessary and only when it is pretty clear they want/need your help.

Sterla - Oh absolutely. Jett can not stand it and cries and screams like it hurts!! For a while there I started handing him the cloth and asked him to wipe his face (making the motions myself) and he would try, but really would miss the majority. After breakfast we do a really quick swipe over and then straight to the bath or shower to wash away the mess. Breakfast is usually the messiest meal with weetbix and yoghurt in the hair which is why we find the shower works well. The other meals we just try to do a quick clean-up and if a few spots of food remain on his face I don't stress or try again in a few minutes after he is busy distracted playing with something else. I just keep telling myself it is just a phase - albeit a very long phase :rofl:

So far DS doesn't mind getting cleaned up. But I have to keep reminding DH not to "help" DS eat - likes to make sure DS tastes the food - helps by putting it in his mouth rather than letting him play with his food (that sounds so weird writing that as we're always told not to play with our food) and get used to the different textures and stuff.
(We also have to a little bit of spoon feeding as DS needs to take powered medicine that he will only take if it's mixed in with some mush. Somehow I nearly always end up with that job - I wanted to go the BLS route so I wouldn't have to do that :wall:)

We usually always need a shower rinse or bath after meals... DD is a bit of a grot.

same here jitterbug, especially as DD loves prunes and 'draws' with them all over her walker tray.

she used to scream when i came to clean her but now i give her a baby wipe first which she plays with or sucks on (read: distracted) while i clean her up.

unfortunately its gotten to that stage where DD isnt content to sit and watch me eat unless she has something too, and as im an all day grazer its really really annoying having to basically run to her with food before she wells up and cries!

Just a quick question from me - how do you cope with the worry of choking? Do you think that becasue AR is only 5 1/2 months we should hold off a bit on some finger foods? We are kind of combining BLS & purees atm... she does quite well with both but I do worry about her as she is a bit younger (ok, I'd probably worry anyway :redface:)
She has her own spoon, so we do it together, and she has had pumpkin & broccoli pieces. I'm just a bit wary...advice?

Oh and as for the mess...she has had a wash-off in the kitchen sink after breakfast the last two mornings lol. Loves it :lol:

Sterla - Gosh I hate it when DS starts rubbing things in his eyes. Especially when he's been eating something like oranges. I get all stressed that he's going to damage his eyes!

Kyson doesn't like me wiping his hands, and hates getting his face wiped. I tend to hose him down after a meal. Don't worry, I don't take to him with the garden hose, lol, I have one of those seat things for the bath so I just pop him in there and hose him off with warm water with one of thse hoses you put on the bath spout :)

Jasp - I'm pretty sure that the way babies develop makes it pretty hard for them to be able to physically pick something up and choke on it. When they are really young their hands aren't able to grasp the small stuff that they could choke on. Once they are able to grab the little stuff then they should also have developed enough to be able to eat the little stuff. Does that make sense? The main thing I worried about was if Kyson was eating something big and managed to bite of a chunk. He's gagged a couple of times but has never started choking. On occasion I've had to pop a finger in his mouth to pull out largish chunks, but luckily he's now learnt how to push things out his mouth with his tongue (especially when he he has something in there and I put something better on his plate, lol!).

Jasp - AR should be fine with choking if she is handling finger foods fine. Jett started at 5 1/2 months, and we only had a few gag/choke moments. Just make sure you know what to do if she starts to turn blue. If she is coughing and spluttering or looking like she is going to be sick, she is just gagging and if you watch you will see a chunk of food come out, usually followed by her putting that piece straight back in her mouth again. They are pretty clever like that!! It is part of the learning what sized pieces to bite off and how small they should be to swallow. You have to trust them. I know, it is easier said than done, but even if you did only purees, eventually when you swap them over to finger food they need to learn exactly the same thing so I am afraid there is no escaping it! Just take heart that babies gag reflex is far more developed than adults so they are well equipped to bring it back up if it is the wrong size or shape. They don't panic the same as us either, so like I said, as long as she isn't turning blue just try to remain calm and let her sort it out herself. It is amazing to watch - scary at first - but then you realise how well they cope.

Thanks KrystieLove & MummyTummy :)
So what do I do if she is turning blue?
Hmm time to do a first aid course maybe :think:

Jasp: We have never had anything close to choking with our DS - LOTS of gagging, but nothing that I've ever had to worry about. They manage amazingly well :).

Just a question for you mummies with older bubs... I know 'food is for fun until you're one' and that milk feeds are more important until then... but what about when your bub IS one? DS turns one in less than a month, and I was wondering if anything should change much with BLS when he turns one? Should I start offering food before milk, or does it just continue the same and I allow DS to choose more so when he wants more food and less milk?

Sterla - nope nothing changes unless you want it to!! It is more that by this time they should be eating, and eating well (as well as you can expect from a 1 year old!) and so if they aren't then you need to be concerned and seek medical advice. Otherwise continue on as you are comfortable and by following bubs lead you will find things will change and progress at a suitable rate! HTH

Jasp - a first aid course is a valuable thing! ;) In the meantime if she does turn blue and you realise she is choking calmly pick her up and lay her across your lap face down. This action in itself may be enough to dislodge whatever is obstructing the airway, otherwise put your fingers in her mouth and see if you can dislodge it for her. If all else fails a sharp upwards blow with the heel of your hand on her back. But I'm am not a first aider and nothing can replace professional training. I did an infant first aid course which is where I got this information from but it may be out of date by now...:dunno:

Thanks MummyTummy. DS is eating fairly well I suppose - he doesn't choose to eat a great deal, but because he's still having A LOT of breastfeeds a day (and night), I guess he doesn't need as much to keep him full. Having said that, I think he is finally (and slowly) starting to drop at least one feed a day.

Dumb sounding question (I get offering fruit and veg) how do I start with the rest of foods like toast and casseroles and stuff?

DS has just turned 6mths 1wk. We have tried a few different fruits and veg and couple of pieces of unflavoured meat (roast pork and porterhouse steak) (and some mush stuff to get medicine down) but I don't understand how to do the rest. Currently I just put the food on his high chair tray and let him think about playing with it and having a go with getting it to his mouth. I don't think I can really do that with casserole type meals. Tomorrow night planning a Mediterranean chicken casserole with chicken drumsticks accompanied by pasta. I get that I can give DS the bone but I can't quite get my head around how everything else works. (I have read the Gil Rapley book but I just don't quite get how to do it in practise)

With a chicken drumstick, you could probably just give him bits of meat off it (in a shape that he could pick up) or the bone... the whole drumstick might be a bit heavy and awkward at that age.
As for the pasta... just give him some to try. It's all about letting your baby learn about the food (texture, taste) and also letting your baby learn how to get food to his mouth (even the really slippery, awkward stuff, lol).

HTH :)

Leckert, I just usually break bits of chicken off the drumstick for him. As for casserole type dishes, I just let him go for it. I put it on his tray and let him feed himself as usual. Not so much sauce, just whatever is coating the meat/pasta etc that's in the dish.
Pasta is DS's favourite and would eat it everyday, every meal if I let him! Just pop a few pieces in front of him to play with, and he will get the hang of things in his own time.

Thanks Megan that sort of makes sense for me. Hoping tomorrow night's attempt at solids goes slightly well (we missed it tonight as DS was soo tired and had a temp so had some dymadon and went to sleep)

Liz - Even with all the messy stuff I just pop it down in front of Kyson and let him go for it. I'll post the link to a couple of examples of his "messy" foods, hehe.

Mmmmm, yoghurt and orange slices!

Yummy pasta

He generally makes a huge amount of mess, but he has a great time and loooooves food.

sloane, I do the same! And while I am doing it I am telling myself that I should keep my hands to myself. :redface:

Sterla, DD doesn't like having her hands cleaned, however likes having her face cleaned. That said, we use a wet facewasher and gently rub her face, try to grab her tongue, play peak-a-boo with the facewasher to make it fun. Otherwise she grumbles.

Leckert, with the pasta, maybe try one that is easier to hold/pick up as well? Spirals or shells may be easier. We have also given toast cut into soldiers. DD can pick it up easily enough and suck/chew on it.

I had the 8 month check up at the MCHN today (the one who blasted me for giving DD wheatbix). I was asked how the solids was going, and if I am giving a selection of different purees...pureed pears, pureed apples, pureed carrots, etc. I replied that I am giving a wide variety of tastes and textures. She asked if I am buying pre-made food, or preparing myself. I said myself, no pre-packaged food. I just failed to mention that the textures are everything from pasta, to different meats, quiches, vegies done a variety of ways, and that there has only been 1 puree...carrot soup which she had with a dipper of bread (and we were also eating)! ;-) The MCHN then said 'and no wheatbix'! I just smiled and said 'of course'. :lol:

Thanks Krystie, that helps too - seeing it helps it make more sense for me. Your DS looks like he has soooo much fun with his food.

Hi everyone - I have been lurking in this thread for a while and thought about time I joined in. Have been doing BLS since DD turned 6 months (now 7.5), at first very slow going and I don't think she actually ate anything but past two weeks has been a bit better and am starting to find lumps of carrot etc in her nappy so it must be going down! At the moment she only likes hard stuff - she has just cut her two bottom teeth so seems to only like stuff she can knaw/tear at anything squidgy not interested. Avocado she seemed to really like but only if was on the end of a bread stick. I am assuming Weetbix is ok despite what MCHN said to you Elliskirsty - as after reading the Gill Rapley book seems like most food is ok - DD quite likes a dry Weetbix.

A question - spinach is that ok - I thought I read somewhere that was not so good for bubs, but DD always grabs at the spinach in my salads and enjoys chomping on any salad leaves it seems ( shame the green dribble makes such a mess - as is warm if at home tend to take her clothes off - but have told her she will have to make less mess by winter :D).

This evening I have using a muslin square created a hammock under her IKEA high chair to catch the bits that fall out through the leg wholes, they are easier for me then to pick up and offer her again as is an easy height and stops them bouncing all over the floor. Based on tonight it catches about 75% of all droppages I reckon, of course the wilful throwing over the side it does nothing for!

Yep, I forgot to mention different pasta shapes. We don't have spaghetti here at the moment as he gets really frustrated with it. We have shells alot of the time and some spirals, sometimes bows. We buy the large shells and he shovels them in his mouth until he cant fit any more! He often has 5 or 6 in there at once!

Vic, nice to see you in here considering I had never heard about BLS until you told me about it! :)

I have a huuuuge oversized round plastic table cloth thingo that DS's highchair sits on to catch all the droppage. That way I can keep it clean and pick stuff up to give back to him, hehe.

:clap: Good on you EK!!! I love the deviousness of it all!! :lol:

Leckert - everyone else has given you some great advice on feeding solids. Just put a small selection of everything on the tray and see how it goes. A whole drumstick is more than likely too awkward so just the meat or the bone with bits of meat will be just fine. You can do the same thing even with runny food like yoghurt. Yes it is messy but learning how those foods behave (as in the physics - gravity etc) is just as important as them eating the food. DS eats yoghurt very well with his hands (he does use the spoon too!), while other babies use dippers - such as EK's carrot soup with bread dipper, and others figure out to tip up the container and drink... all with the same result - mess and a full tummy and happy baby!! :D

As for pasta - we use the textured tubes. Holds the sauce inside and outside and the texture makes it a little easier to pick up. But yes, any of the shapes tend to be more successful than spaghetti or fettucini at first. But do offer it now and then. DS loves slurping fettucini and flat noodles from the thai restaurant. He does it very skillfully too. But he does love to decorate the dog in it too - thinks it is hilarious!!!

Wysiwyg - :welcome: If your DD likes spinach just go for it. DS loved lettuce for a while but he can't stand it now. And yes weetbix is just fine - EK has a particularly difficult old-school MCHN who is not supportive in the least of BLS. DS likes dry weetbix too - personally the thought of it makes my mouth turn dry!! :lol: Nice thought on the hammock catcher too. How did you hook it up in front of the leg holes?

I tend to use whatever pasta is on special, as that is just what I have. DD actually LOVES spaghetti, it is probably her favourite food (we call them 'Stringies') and she puts one end in her mouth and then sucks the rest in, so very adorable (but messy).

We are cutting tooth number 9 and 10 at the moment... she is going to be one of those kids with a full set of teeth by one haha.

ETA: we have never had any choking and not even any intense gagging, just spitting big bits out with force.

Wow, teeth 9 & 10!!! We are waiting on 3&4 here. lol

We had a big gagging incident here this morning with watermelon. Usually I cut off a whole big slice of watermelon for DS and he munches on it and gets through it no problem. I had just made him lunch but left DH to organise the watermelon so I could hang the washing out. I'm outside and hear this almighty scream from DS, so I run inside and DH has him laying over his highchair tray trying to get up this bit of watermelon. It eventually comes out with a lot of drool and a bit of vomit, his face is bright red and he's screaming his little lungs out.
I then looked at the tray and DH had cut up his watermelon into pieces, so he was just picking them up and shoving them in his mouth, rather than having a big piece and just biting off what he can handle like he normally does. It was yet another scary gagging incident and am annoyed with DH for not listening to me. He has watermelon all the time and DH has seen the way I cut it up, yet he decides to cut it into little chunks that he could choke on. Sometimes he just doesn't think.

Awww poor little man. It must have scared DH though - hopefully he will listen to you and watch what you do from now on!!

Mummytummy - As the IKEA legs go outwards rather than straight down I just tied a sheet down far enough that was in front of the leg holes.
Krystie - like you I had a mat on the floor but food kept bouncing off so hammock prevents some of that! Forgot I told you about BLS - Kyson is doing so well at it - hope CJ gets it a bit more soon.

So in terms of hardish sticks of food (cucumber, parsnip, sweet potato, zucchini (keep wanting to say courgette which is what say in UK), chicken drumstick bones, carrot, breadsticks,toast,prunes, dates) CJ does fairly well but anything that is a bit slimy or soft she just doesn't seem interested in putting it to her mouth or really playing with it at all. Do I just keep offering and hope she will take interest? E.g. banana no interest in, a friend gave me big chunks of stewed apple - no interest, pasta no interest.