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I guess the difference for me is that you are definitely going to put that stuff into your child's body, but your child may not ever get that illness if you leave them unvaccinated kwim? It's like a 100% chance of having those chemicals in your body against the much smaller percentage chance of ever catching the illness.
to make it clear - the information in my post had nothing to do with Channel 7. It was the "report" that triggered yet another round of questions as to why I choose no vacc.
back to the original posti answered tongue in cheek :lol: .. cos we have 2 of these threads atm:
Im just wondering why some people dont?
yet lots of vaxers seem to be answering their reasons FOR vaxing??
:dunno:
You're right Inanna - the channel is irrelevant. The fact that all of 'current affairs & community interest' programs have a vested interest in producing alarming & sensationalist tripe is relevant. They are journalists collecting information to use on a pariticular angle that will gain them ratings. From ratings, they have businesses vying for advertising space - which is where the money comes in.
My point: the more frightening/outragious the claims, the more ratings. They are ensuring their income by not presenting a balanced story. Who wants to hear them say, "the world is lovely & nothing at all went wrong today". Vaccinations (& teh risks of) are a hot & emotional topic, and an obvious choice for them is to seek out anecdotal opinions from sources that will support their angle.
Again - look at the age of the 'references'. 1989??? I was 9 years old! ya don't think we've made some medical science since then? And that two-sentence quote mentions nothing of areas with poor vaccination coverage (and the severity of the outbreak).
This is my point.
The 7 program was FOR vaccination. Those quotes aren't from that, as Lulu said.
No I don't think much has changed - it's the THEORY that is my point. That certainly hasn't changed. Have the vacc's changed much?
Did some of these quotes come from peer reviewed blah blahs?
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good." - Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the US Federal Drug Admin.)
This isn’t worth a teeny tiiiny bit of consideration?
ah, I've read all of these threads & for a moment forgot what I was even going to say LOL. So much info, going around & around & around.........getting dizzy!!!!
So here's my small take on things, take it as you wish (i'm a little sadden some people thing it's ok to tell people they are "wrong" or not "the norm" for their choices...but whatever)............
MY CHILD/REN.....MY CHOICE!!!!! and ditto goes for you & everyone else!!!!! some may make "seemingly wrong" choices some may make "ill informed choices" some may make "well informed" choices. At the end of the day YOUR CHOICE!!!! we can ask "why" to get some info but you'll never get the answer you want if you don't find it out for yourself. We can sure ask to get some conversation flow going, to get some direction or perhaps often some desperate help but still at the end of it all YOU make the CHOICE!!! we will all have our own opinions etc to why we choose something, some of us so strong willed we will "force feed it to others" or get "nasty" about it with passion without realising. But all I can say is YOU CHOOSE & WHY....because it's the choice YOU made.
And my other little bit to say that may be viewed wrong.....like anything we debate, for example to Circumcise or not to. It's not Illegal not to so therefore you are given a choice aren't you???? so unless they make it mandatory that you MUST Vaccinate, you MUST Circumcise, You Must use cloth nappies & so on......we are free to choose our own way. If it was that clear cut that you "should" vaccinate or that obviouse it was too "dangerous" to vaccinate it would either be mandatory or not available. Just IMO.
Goodluck with YOUR decision.
i think people should be more educated on the fact that they DO have a choice when I had DD1 it was made out to me that the immunisations were compulsory i never got told i didnt have a choice it was always dont forget Claire needs her shots at 12 months etc.
It would be interesting to group all these opinions into a pros and cons list for vaxing
I was talking to my dad (a GP) about all this today.
He is alarmed at how little the community know about vaccinations, because, since the introduction of MCHN mass vaccination days, fewer and fewer people actually go to the GP for vax. It is sad, because the GP actually has a lot of info on vaccinations. I know people want to save money by going to the MCHN, but the council receives money from the govt for those vax days, and I feel they do little to help parents make a decision. I hate the cattle call, rush in and out and the little information that is given. No wonder people are turning away in droves. It feels like a one-size policy...and it is. So why not go to the GP and ask about the vaccinations that YOUR child might benefit from. They're not all fanatlically pro-vax and many have opinions about variations to the schedule.
A couple of things dad told me, that I didn't know:
To practice medicine, nursing, in fact any health professions in Australia, you must be fully vaccinated.
The Hep B vax was introduced from birth because the govt is trying to reduce Hep B, which has steadily risen since the most recent wave of migration. It is alarmingly apparent in many parts of our community, especially hospitals. I know...babies aren't a risk group (unless they're drug addicts or into sex lol), but they are members of our community who may need to use hospital etc. we can't live in a bubble.
The vaccinations prior to 6 months are mainly for bacterial infections (barring the pertussis) because bmilk and placental antibodies don't protect the baby against bacterias in the same way as viral infections.
From 12 months the placental (IgM) antibodies have started receding, so bub now has only their own immune system to help them. Dad says this is why it is vital the 12 month ones are done promptly, because the baby is starting to explore the world more fully...they need all the help they can get.
Breastfeeding is not a substitute for vaccinations. Breastmilk does boost children's immune systems, but it cannot magically create T-cells in the blood that can target infectious diseases.
As for the autism link. Sadly, so far it is just anectdotal. I know that doesn't help parents desperately searching for an answer.
Finally, vaccinated children CAN pass on strains of the disease to other children. Scary. Yes. While they are generally milder, unvaccinated children can contract this disease, and can often spur a mutation, which then re-infects everyone (which is how outbreaks in vaccinated communities occur).
As a society, I think we need to make a decision, because while ever there are people in both camps, we actually pose a risk to each other.
I was at a playgroup meeting recently and a mum told me how her little one had rubella recently - he was unvaxed. She was saying it was mild etc. BUT all I could think about was the pregnant women she might have been in contact with before it was diagnosed...9 in 10 babies exposed to the virus in the first 10 weeks have severe congenital abnormalities.
I am not offering my child as a matyr to the cause, but surely vaccination is a community issue as well as a personal one?
Thats why I started the thread ;) When I had Annabelle and even now with Lucy. At MCHN appointments I get " So her vax are due next visit, what date suits you?":
Its never " So are you getting her vaxs next visit?"
Anna- thanks for your info ;)
:yeahthat:
I posted pretty much the same in another thread... I am in much the same boat as you DM & I think it's fantastic to have a forum where these things can be discussed & people can share their opinions & experiences.
I really like hearing all sides of the topic, it makes for an interesting & thought provoking read :)
I like the idea of a pros / cons list. Could you do that though? there seems to be a LOT to consider & not all of it applies to everyone...
i was wondering that too whether it could be done but for people sitting on the fence it gives all the info in one place instead of reading through pages and pages and even if it doesnt apply to them it may to someone else and then all the info/opinions is there regardless
anna- my thoughts exactly.
Isn't vaccination one reason why polio has been pretty much wiped out??
Anna you have raised very valid points.
I understand the opinion that we have to have an above 80% immunisation rate to protect "the herd".. I too lament over this - however not at the peril of my kids. That has been a choice I have made.
I am a nurse & I am not vaccinated. I have a zero sero conversion on HepB and I haven't been vaxed for many others. Not one employer has ever asked for my vax record. Of course HepB - and after multiple vax I don't have immunity... I had chicken pox as a child and measles and rubella and mumps! But as I said I have not ever been asked. I would imagine my childhood illnesses has not afforded me lifelong cover for these illnesses though so I am likely at risk.
If vaccination rates drop below a certain level, diseases currently controlled by vaccination will become more common in our society in both un-vaccinated and vaccinated people. Some people with the disease will only experience mild symptoms but some will be severely affected and some will die. The more common the disease becomes, the more likely it is that some people will affected at the worse end of the disease spectrum.:
I vaccinate because of all the reasons Anna has stated and because I am absolutely, truely THANKFUL that vaccinations exist so that my child does not have to suffer the full extent of the diseases they are designed to prevent.
I think that vaccinations are a community choice, not just a personal one. Your choices affect me & my child.
Actually no that isn't correct:
NO ONE schools, daycare etc NO ONE has the right to refuse your child an education.
You sign a "conscientious objector" form from Centrelink, get a Dr to sign it basically saying they've explained the risks of non-vaxxing and then you enrol your child.
IF there is a vaccine preventable outbreak, your child MUST be kept home for the quarantine period (which I'd rather have anyway)
I can see the viewpoint that vaccinations are a community responsibility. But how can one reconcile that when their child has reacted severely to vaccination or when the evidence suggests that it is not healthy?
I actually don't believe that injecting small children with vaccines is "the best" for a community. There are countries (Japan, Scandanavia) where it is thought that it is not safe to vaccinate young babies...
Why is our "community" so sure that it is the only safe way... When others it is thought not so safe until much older?
I think it could sound a little dismissive it is a "community choice".. When some in that community have very real fears about the safety of these injections for their children.
The immunisation rate for MMR is now at around 50%... Despite campaigns to immmunise. I think we need to ask why is this so? Why do so many families have so many questions and concerns? Why are there these links?
It is a choice that parents do not make lightly - to not immunise their children. Yet as so many have pointed out in here - many parents don't even realise they have a choice not to immunise. Many parents don't ask the questions as it is pedalled as the "right" & "best" thing for our children.