am i being naive to think i can have a natural birth?

hi Gracie

i agree with everyone who has posted here. I am going to a birthing centre and just recently a girl from TAFE let me borrow her "New Active Birth" book which I am nearly at the end of. Be aware that all the women are naked - not to worry most ladies wear a large tshirt anyway - i asked my midwife.

I am going the natural birth too and going to try to opt to stay home as long as possible too. i know we can do it, our body is designed to have a baby. I do not believe that sitting up in a car so a dr can have easy 'access' to us is good enough. I am due nearly the same time as you and happy to discuss this further with you - if you want.

Gracie - next time you see your ob, ask what the effects are of the pethidine on the baby and how it might affect breastfeeding initiation. Meanwhile, read up a bit about this yourself and compare the answers. You might find you're not satisfied with the ob answer, or the answer will influence you to go without :)
As much as other women say that it's your body and you should do whatever you want, it's pretty important to also think about what is good for the baby. For me, when thinking about the effects of drugs on the baby (they all cross the placenta), it swayed me even further into the 'no intervention' camp unless medically necessary. Because birth is not just about the woman, it's about the mother AND the child. Women's liberation shouldn't erode the rights of the child, and drugs don't seem to be very liberating to me, anyway (JMO).
It really did help me at the time to remember that there are HEAPS of women who birth without drugs and that I could be one of them. I was one of many who had gone before me and my body knew what to do if I could just let it, without interference of drugs.
Sorry to push my barrow, it sounds like the knockers are getting to you! IF, after deliberation and finding out about the side effects of drugs for you AND your baby, you still decide you want drugs, then that's fine - you only need to explain yourself to you and your baby, not me or anyone else :) In the end, you do what you need to do and you tell yourself what you need to.
Naughty ob talking you round to drugs when you've said that your birth plan is to not be offered drugs! I'm 'grrrring' away here...

The way I saw it too, was that I spent all of my pregnancy avoiding any drugs, ie, sinus medications, panadol (unless I was dying) etc, there was no way I was going to let it all come undone for a few hours hard work.

Do your research Gracie, peth and morphine (which they are now using in some hosps) are not a good thing to have crossing over to your baby. Especially if your baby is born pretty soon after you getting it. Bub's will more than likely be very slow to respond.

i knew the pethidine comment would cause a stir!! i guess i was just being a bit cheeky..sorry guys. yeah you're right though mayaness, i did let the knockers get to me a bit. i went in there all confident and assertive after reading the posts on this thread on monday morning, but found myself once again feeling like a naive little schoolgirl when faced with the actual scenerio. i conceded that i would consider using pethedine when in labour cos i guess i just don't know how i'm gonna cope till i'm actually in the situation iykwim? i stood firm on the epidural though and said i'm just not interested. i still plan not to use anything, not even pethidine. they can't make me take anything i don't agree to..

That's true Gracie, but in labour you will not be in a position to state your case or protest. Believe me, you need to be firm before you get there and have someone to speak for you. Otherwise you will give in to pressure, because you won't be in a mental state to think clearly, much less articulate how you are feeling. I know this from experience, soon enough you will know what I mean. I know you can do this drug free with the knowledge you are building up. Trust in yourself and you will be so glad you did (afterwards anyway!!).

That's right Gracie, they can't make you take anything, but you might agree to anything when you're in labour. I know people who've suggested all sorts of crazy things in labour, and even tried to leave and say they'll come back and give birth another day!

You need to really go through this with your birth partner, so they can help you make decisions and remind you why you've made those decisions. Also so they can advocate for you and when staff offer an epidural they can remind the dr's that you're not interested unless it's absolutely mandatory.
A good question to ask would be 'do you think I can cope without it?' Hopefully you'll have an ob honest enough to say 'yeah, it'll relieve your pain, but you're doing fine without it'.
While determined that I didn't want drugs, I was aware that if my birth support partners and midwives said 'you're not coping' (like I had an extraordinarily long labour and I needed to rest), then in the end a healthy baby was what mattered most.

My sister gave birth to my niece drug free a couple of weeks ago, everything went really well!

Who are these people? Why are they trying so hard to talk you into something you don't want?
It's terrific that your partner is in the same frame of mind - he can talk for you if you are too busy concentrating.
BTW - DD 1 - born at Knox no pain relief (and she was a biggie). They gave me gas but didn't tell me how to use it so I was sucking on nothing - so that proves that concentrating on breathing through the pain works. No tear, no stitches.
DS - only had peth as I was talked into it by a stupid midwife that didn't bother telling me bubs was posterior - I got scared when things felt different from the first time. He was born about 20mins later, I didn't need it at all. No tears again.
DD 2 - Perfect waterbirth at Angliss birth centre.

What to wear? I searched for the perfect outfit and ended up wearing a pink, sparkly strapless (stretchy) mini dress with matching pink leg warmers. Yes I did!

Go for it Gracie! :) It's absolutely do-able!

I went in to both of my labours pretty open, depending on the situation I was open to drugs if I felt the need. Both times I really surprised myself and I had nothing, completely drug free! Admittedly they were quite short labours but I tell you I (and this may sound selfish!) was SO proud of myself and my babies for doing what we were made to do. I was (and am!) immensly proud and my DH was incredibly proud too. He saw the pain I went through and was amazed it could all happen drug free. I just took it contraction by contraction, just getting over one, then the other. You'll be amazed what you can do! Best of luck!

thanks for all your confidence in me ladies. dp knows my feelings on it and i trust him to speak up for me. nelle i like your suggestion of saying 'do you think i can cope without it?'. i will definitely be using that one. it's great to hear that so many of you have done it, and i've gone through hard parts of life and gotten through them. bec i love just getting through it contraction by contraction, one at a time...that's the way to do it isn't it?
lulu- i didn't know there was a birth centre at angliss. can you tell me more about it?

Oh Gracie, like Lulu, I had a waterbirth at the Angliss, that's how Riv was born and I'm booked in for the next one too! They're great because you have one less thing to worry about, you know they'll stick with intervention-free birthing ideals. I also trusted them in that, if they did suggest intervention, it was because I needed it, and not cos they were bored and wanted to fiddle about. My midwife saw that I had my dh and my friend who's also a student midwife and just left me to it! She popped in every now and then (probably more than I noticed) and told me I was doing well.
I've heard they can get busy and I heard a couple of weeks before River there were heaps of births all at once and they shuttled a few over to the normal birth suites, but with Birth Centre midwives, but I had the whole place to myself!
Anyway, sorry, off topic and you actually asked Lulu, and I can't speak for her, don't know if her experience was anything like mine.
Where are you planning to have this bub Gracie?

Gracie I highly recommend it. Many independent midwives work there, they have the lowest transfer rate of all birth centres in Melbourne and they know how to work the grey lines ;) Very recommended. Of course, one of the few places you can have a waterbirth too.

Of course it was great - The Waterbirth of Elizabeth Raine is probably in the archives if you want to take a look.
They only thing is - I think it will be too late to book in now. Give them a call and see what they say.

Hi Gracie,

You're not in a minority, in a different kind of birth class you'd be in the majority!
I attended birth classes with the NCT in England. Out of a dozen couples, only one other couple did not have a c/s. The other mother was one of those rare people who sneeze and have a baby - her labour was 4 hours. She was a very fit and very calm person. I was less fit and less calm, and my labour was 24 hours. It was so normal it was boring. I did feel that I was the token wierdo hippie of the group (that was a laugh, given my middle-class super-conservative background) but really it was all a matter of choice. I knew I was a poster girl for Ms Average and felt that if I chose hospital birth I'd HAVE a hospital birth and very likely, step by step, would've had intervention and 'needed' pain relief. I chose home birth and so I had a homebirth and didn't need pharmaceutical pain relief.

So much of what happens around birth is the overlay of cultural context. In a different context, what you are planning would be considered totally normal and routine. The trick is to choose what you know is right for you, from the desire of your heart, and stay your course. Choose on the basis of that, not on the basis of what all the others are doing. I can think of some birth classes (independent of hospitals) where what you are planning is routine, ordinary and unremarkable. I can think of other cultures where the same would be true.

Try to focus on what you WILL be doing to support your birth, support your relaxation, enhance your comfort and manage pain rather than on NOT having pharmaceutical pain relief. Is there anything else you could arrange that might support your goals?

Gracie,
This has been a really great thread. I wanted to add one more thing. Whilst I never took pethedine and never even thought about it, I can tell you that based only on what others have said, OFTEN IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE PAIN!! Many women say that all it did was make them, and the baby, very sleepy and unable to focus.

Natural endorphins will kick in during labour. During my 2nd VBAC, because my ds had his elbow up by his head, I felt a lot of pain during contractions. Between contractions, I actually slept--even though it was daytime and I had no lack of sleep. I felt silly for constantly nodding off, but the midwife assured me that it was endorphins at work. Had I had pethidine on top of that, I think I would have been comatose.
Also, the good thing about your natural endorphins is that they are produced just as you need them. They don't have to be topped up and they taper off when no longer required. Once my son pulled his elbow down, everything was much more manageable and I was immediately far less sleepy. I was then wide awake and feeling fabulous during stage II, which was very exciting. :D

Hi Everyone!
Gracie - my baby is due on the 29th of September - it seems that the 3rd trimester is passing more quickly than the first two - probably because I am just not organised! We are madly finishing off a renovation, and we still don't have any baby furniture! Aggh! :)

Cheers, Kerry

Hey Gracie, just thought i would drop in to let you know that I just gave birth to a little girl weighing in at nearly 10lb with NO drugs. Sure there was a bit of yelling and swearing but it is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE!!!!!! Good luck :)

that's awesome news totalfrog!! thanks for letting me know. how long was the labour?? 10lbs is huge! well done

I tend to think that a lot of people who roll their eyes at you for wanting a drug-free birth are feeling in some way ashamed at their own willingness to accept pain-relief. I don't think it is conscious, but it would make them feel better about their decisions if you had drugs too.

I know after the drug crazed birth of my DD, I felt like a complete failure, especially when I spoke to people who had used nothing or a bit of gas. I felt like I was somehow inferior to them because I hadn't been able to do it.

Well I have done it, twice now, and the natural way is HEAPS better and strangely addictive! :lol:

i went into a shop today to buy a new dress and the lady working there told me all about her first birth and epidural and how it was awful, slowed down the birth etc. she then told me about her second natural birth and how fantastic it was and how it was the best day of her life. it was interesting to hear it from a complete stranger.

Hi Gracie. Good on you! I had a nearly natural birth, just a bit of gas at the end but I'm pretty proud of myself as my daughter was posterior.. I think it was the back pain BETWEEN the contractions that led me to me trying the gas not the actual contractions themselves lol! After the research I did I don't think anything could have induced me to try pethedine or an epidural. You can do it too! Trust your body and it's ability to do what it's designed to do... yes it hurts but it's such a brief period of time in the big scheme of things and you really do forget so quickly afterwards.. We didn't find out the sex either (one of the few truly big and wonderful surprises left these days!) and that was like an added motivation. You are lucky to have a DH that will support you, it made a huge amount of difference for me I think. Good luck, have fun and enjoy the ride !!

Hi this might be a little too late but i just read your stories and though that i would add mine.

I went into labour with my first son with all intentions of having a natural birth. My blood pressure shot up and my labour was going no where. I was in a lot of pain and dissapointed 12 hours later as i was only 3 cm dialated. I had a epidural and he was born 2 hours later. This was the best decision for my situation.

With my second son i went into labour with all intentions of having an epidural as i did not want that long dissapointing labour again. I was in labour for two hours and the pain was getting too much so i asked for an epidural i was 7 cm dialated the mid wife said thats fine. She went out of the room to organise it, she had to come running back as my baby started to crown with out any pushing abourt 4 minutes later. I had our second son drug free. It can be done and i want to try again.

I think the story is go with the flow and if i can do it then any one can. Just keep in mind that everything happens for a reason and don't be dissapointed if you can't do it first time round try and try again.

sorry if it is long

Nikki

First experiences put many people off. First births are typically long, exhausting and often ending up with pain relief or a c/s - so second time around many women want to cut to the chase and want the epi or c/s instead of that long, exhausting labour. Most don't realise that second births are generally shorter and easier - not in all cases of course, things can still go awol, but if women could have a great experience and support first time around, I think we'd have lots more positive experiences and less c/s and epidurals. That first experience is so pivitol, and I am pleased that more first time mums are looking into doulas as opposed to second time mums or more (who I get alot of) who know and realise how valuable and beneficial that support can be.

Kelly, do you think that whole long first birth thing would have applied to my vbac?? Technically it was a first birth.
It was really really long (32 hours, she was posterior) and while I am wrapped to have had a vaginal birth and definately want more kids it is a bit scary thinking the next labour might be that long!! I am hoping for a bit shorter!

Yeah, i'm sure next time will be shorter ;) Second births are shorter, third births in my experience are like bulls at a gate :) I've been to a few and all over red rover really quick ;) Even an induction I attended one morning last week (waters broken to start labour) was all over by 2pm.

That's a good point Kelly, River's birth was fantastic, so I'm very confident about birthing this next one, but I wonder how apprehensive I'd be if my first experience was difficult - I think I'd be working much harder to be reassured and confident!
It is great that first time mums are arming themselves with knowledge and support. I know that my knowledge, atmosphere (birth centre) and support partners (dh, student midwife/support partner and rostered midwife) made all the difference for me. :D

ETA: Ooh, Gracie's due today-ish! All the best whenever it happens Gracie, would love to hear how things end up going!

hi nelle- i'm still here. still pregnant!! will keep you posted!!

Lol Gracie, no rush! :p

Gracie- Great thread, thanks for posting it! i would be very interested to hear how you go love. I am in the same boat as you, i would really love a natural physiological birth, and am booked into a private hosp in melb. I am due on the 5th of Oct.
Good luck, hope it all goes well, look foward to hearing how it goes.

hi Ange- i'm really hoping that my baby will come naturally in the next couple of days cos if not, then i will be induced next thursday. i've heard that this can make it a lot harder for you to go naturally. hope everything goes well for you. keep me posted!!

A baby is not technically overdue until 42 weeks, before then is regarded as full term. I wouldn't risk an induction until then as the last thing I would want is a caesar, but thats just me :)

Will keep you posted! How many days over your EDD will you be next Thurs? As much as i am OVER being preg, i am trying to avoid an induction for the reasons you said. I have spoken to OB and he is happy to let me go to 42 weeks and then re-asses. Although i must admit today i can't remember feeling bub move and it makes me nervous! How will i be by 42 weeks?!
Sending you all the labour vibes i can muster up!

Hi Gracie :) just wanted to add that I feel/felt the same way as you - silly and naive whenever I start to talk about not wanting drugs at all. I intend to stay at home for as long as possible (we're only 15 mins from the hospy), so I can work with the contractions in a comfortable environment (their birth unit is like a huge room with no windows!! eep). I really don't like the idea of taking anything because it'll cross into the placenta and I don't want to be 'out of it' - I will, though, keep an open mind that anything can happen.

I'm a big believer that our bodies were designed to give birth - no matter what way it happens. So drug-free is possible, for sure! Women have been doing this for thousands of years - and it's only really been in the past, what, 90 years? that we've been given drugs and carted off to the hospital to have our babies.

I took a prenatal yoga class - and the teacher was amazing. I ended up buying her book so I could keep her teachings in mind and practice at home. I think we're all 'taught' that labour is all screaming in the stirrups, but I think it's also the best day of your life :) I'd rather go into it thinking "I can do this" than "when can I get my epi?" - but this is what I want. I can't wait!!

Hope everything goes well for you xx

yeah i agree Tracey, i keep thinking the same thing- that our bodies are made for it. i'm actually quite looking forward to it (is that weird??? i don't know!). i want to try to stay home as long as possible too. hospy is about 30-40 mins away depending on traffic. i have to admit, the whole induction thing has scared me a little, as i really just want the baby to come when it's ready..
best of luck with everything, can't wait to hear your birth announcement

You can do it!

When I was preg with DD#1 an African woman had her baby in a tree by herself due to flooding. And I thought if she can do it by herself in a tree I can do it in a hospital with lots of support from everyone. I now have had 2 natural deliveries. With the first one I tried the gas once but really didn't like it. There was a point in both where I was thinking "Where is that sweet nurse who was offering me some drugs 'cause I changed my mind." But as it was transition they wouldn't give them to me anyway 'cause they knew it would only be a few minutes till I was pushing.

Your body has been crafted to do exactly what needs to happen to birth your baby. If you need help it will be there but many many people do this with no meds. In Canada it seems that a fair number manage to be like me and can do it and you can too!

Going into labour with a positive frame of mind really helps, trust your body and concerntrate on remembering that you will soon be welcoming your little one into the world. Two out of my three births were without pain killers, not because they were easier, but because I found I felt more in control and active without them. It is a good idea to have your support person remind you of your wishes, or if you don't have a support person write it on your hand or a piece of paper. Having said all that don't be to hard on yourself if you change your mind.
All the best for a great birthing experience:goodluck: