DIY Deliveries: More Women Go It Alone (US)

Got to spread the rep around, Sushee, but I agree with your post. I too had a great hospital birth and I too think that choice is power. Hospitals aren't necessarily to blame, it is just unfortunate that there are so many health professionals out there who are unwilling to let a woman make a choice (without trying to guilt them either way, ie, "Your baby will die unless I...")
I think all the posts I've read here have been positive toward homebirthing, and although I don't think I'll ever have one (on purpose ;) ) I don't have a problem with them. I think we would all like to see the government cough up for our midwives in a manner that is totally reasonable and common sensical.
So sorry for your bad experiences, s361768, I really hope this birth is wonderful and all you could hope for.

I am sorry that I came across anti-hospital: if that is what the woman wants and she is respected then I am sure they can be great. Quite frankly, I know the hospital I birthed at quite well and they like to mess around with a woman in labour if at all possible. I do know of one person who managed to get out her baby drug-free and she had a 2-hour labour from start to finish!

If there is anything "wrong" next time (breech bub, placenta prevaria, very long labour, waters break more than 24 hours before...) then I will go to hospital. But I won't be happy about it and will be taking handcuffs for obstetricians and as many proper support people as I can grab! But because I know my hospital and I know my DH I was wanting a freebirth before I gave birth (read some of my pregnancy posts if you don't believe me!) and I do think that everything would have been fine if that had happened. But hindsight is 20/20; I won't pretend I was happy with the hospital but... I dunno, I didn't really have support. I wouldn't have wanted to freebirth, I would have wanted support but it would have to be support for me, not support for interventions!

I totally understand why you would feel the way you do, Ryn - your experience was truly awful. I wasn't having a go. I'm sure there are loads of people who have sadly shared a similar experience.

My hospital experiences have improved with each birth!!! My first labour was long, epidural, 15hrs+ labour, 3rd degree tears. 2nd birth, 5 hrs, no drugs episiotomy for severe fetal distress, and I just couldn't push her out. 3rd birth, 2hrs, no drugs, beautiful labour, everything went well until I had a severe PPH, lost over a litre of blood, Drs wanted to transfuse me, but I was happy to wait and see how I went! Started on iron tabs and Hb slowly came up by itself. This truly scared me to bits as I was border line going to theatre anyway after birth as the bleeding was uncontrollable. So I spose anything can happen hey! But I have 3 beautiful kids, and I myself can live to tell the tales!!

wow!

what a fantastic post...:)

at the end of the day as a midwife I have to say that birthing with the support of a doula and a support person is fantastic, but to do so without the 'presence' of someone trained in birth, is not something I agree with

I have seen the result of women choosing not to have any care, and even though it is extreme, it is not in the best of mother or child

The increasing numbers of woman unhappy with the current medical model of maternity care, is resulting in the ever widening bridge between medical and what we believe is a natural process that should not be intruded apon. This leads to an increase in women seeking homebirth alternatives, but unfortunatley there are simply not enough HB midwives to go around.

Politically speaking freebirth does not free women and their right to birth, in fact it hardens the resolve of the medical model to make birth safe (in there eyes) form many more women entering the hospital based system

everyone has made some wonderful posts, and this is where the true passion for safe natural birth will help raise the voices of women in childbirth :)

xx blue daisy

Hmmm very interesting... here's my 2 cents worth...

I think birth (like lots of things in life) is all about risk assessment and what level of risk you are prepared to accept. This "acceptable level of risk" will be different for everyone. There are well identified risks associated with giving birth, for the mother and the baby, that you can't do anything about. No amount of education or exercise or positioning or anything will prevent some of the things that sometimes happen during birth. Sometime it's just luck. And I'm not saying that things can't be done to help make all sorts of situations better, I'm just saying that sometimes all "other options" become exhausted.

I think unnecessary medical intervention is a separate issue. To reduce this I think education is the key, of medical professionals, mothers, fathers, and society in general. You also need to have good communication between you and everyone around you. You need to feel that you are able to speak and will be listed to. You need to feel that you will be told what you need to know, when you need to know it without any "baggage" (e.g. like the anesthetist needs to have his lunch break in 30 mins). And if necessary, you need to change your situation so that you are more comfortable with the people around you (yes, I know, easier said than done).

I had a wonderful hospital birth. It was truly the most amazing experience of my life. I had gas. I had an episiotomy. I was absolutely dreading having an epi, I told my ob this, we did everything we could to avoid it, but when the time came, DS was a compound presentation with his arm next to his head, a fast labour (my first and less than 4 hours from the very first contraction) and an epi was the best option for all of us at the time under the circumstances. So in the end I felt it really wasn't a big deal (for me) in the scheme of things.

We have private heath insurance so I can choose my ob. Yes we can afford it but we choose to afford it, going without many, many, many other things because it is a priority for us as a family.

I think at the end of the day it is their back pockets, that medical professionals are worried about.
I don't think that giving a woman the best possible environment and atmosphere to birth really enters their minds. Obs and hospital midwifes control every aspect of a woman's pregnancy, labour and birth for the health of mother and child (true) SO in the end they avoid the potential for litigation.

This means time limits on pregnancy, induction, time limits on birth, a 1 in 3 chance of a CS and through all this women are to remain passive and accepting when all this is happening to their body and newborn.

If they (Polititions and the medical fraternity) cared so much about lowering the rates of maternal and infant mortality amonst Australian women, why are so many indigenous women and babies dying? The quality of health care provided to them in their communities is practically 3rd world.

Anyway back on track, and in response to Epacris's post, I know that I am not the only woman who had gone been through traumatic birth, and I know I am not the only woman looking to avoid it at all costs.

If I could afford full hospital coverage, barely affording the extras (and knowing what I know now) I would still avoid the hospital and opt for a midwife (if I could get one, considering I am a VBAC even after my natural birth and a natural prior to that).

Epacris it is great that you can choose to afford private health for your family thus have a private OB for your pregnancy/ies. But this doesn't guarantee you of a better treatment and outcome, although I do here that the food is better and that the nurses smile more in the private system.

In addition, Just because our family dont have full comp hosp cover and "don't choose to afford it" doesn't mean health is not a top priority of our family, everyones circumstances are different.

I think one of the great things about the baby bonus in Australia is that it means that most people can afford a midwife.
Many private midwives are prepared to accept installments and payment after the bonus comes through

That is a really bold statement,

I dont drink my baby bonus away, like I said in my last post everyone's family circumstances are different this includes financial circumstances.

I pay $1000,00 out of BB for my doula. Last BB we had our car repaired things pop up, This time I owe my university $3500 after graduation. However I guess if I don't use it for a midwife????

Why are midwifes so expensive for women wanting a different approach to care during preg etc

To add, I thought the polititions said that the baby bonus was specifically to assist for the costs of a new baby coming into the family.

This may include morgage repayments because of family going down to 1 income, this money may also enable a woman to rest and take time off work rather than putting child in daycare faciltiy at 6 weeks and racing straight back out into the workforce.

Why should a woman have to hand this BB over to a midwife??? Why can't the government provide more assistance for women wanting to employ midwifes for their pregs and also make it possible for midwifes to provide support for women during childbirth?

What I think Chloe is trying to say is that it could make things easier. I don't think it was meant as an attack. In most cases there are options for people that want them or need them. But I do agree as I said earlier in my previous post that midwifery care shouldn't be something we have to pay off in instalments it should be free, as free as birthing in a public hospital.

TBH I don't think that midwives are expensive. Try and find another professional who has had the years of training and education that most independant midwives have who will only charge you around 4k for ongoing support (including unlimited phone calls), home visits before (usually an hour each visit), education (including the loan of texts and DVDs) and after labour (up to 6 weeks) and be on call for a midnight call-out if nessescary then stay for a shift that could be in excess of 12 hours.

If you pay for an ob and a private hospital stay you're looking at at least twice that and often more.

ETA - Yes they should be free but I don't think it's fair to complain about how expensive they are when most of them charge the bare minimum and less than they deserve. Feel free to complain about the government not supporting midwifry - I'll support you but it really bugs me when people assume that midwives shouldn't have the right to charge adequately for thier services. We expect every other proffession to recieve recompense for thier skills so why is it that midwives are supposed to do it for love.

But that's still 4k more than a public hospital Ob birth Dach. I think midwives should be well-paid but i don't see why a woman should have to pay out of pocket for a birth which would actually be cheaper to the state than the one they will provide. Good maternity care would have provision for homebirths and midwives but i suspect that as is the case here in the UK it is easier to regulate hospital births, thus they paper over the cracks of staffing problems, insurance issues and costs by only offering the most regulatable option for free.

Bx

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Epacris it is great that you can choose to afford private health for your family thus have a private OB for your pregnancy/ies. But this doesn't guarantee you of a better treatment and outcome, although I do here that the food is better and that the nurses smile more in the private system.

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Yes, but I believe my education and my attitude do guarantee me the birth that I want.

I totally agree that homebirth should be a free option if hospital birth is.
Maybe I wasn't clear about that.
It's just that I keep coming across an attitude that really bugs me (not on BB) that anyone who works with birthing women should be doing it for love not money and if you want to make a profit from doing what you love then you're letting women down somehow. Like joining the birth business means you should take a vow of poverty as a symbol of the majestic awe of childbirth...

Don't mind me - I'm just having a bit of an OT spack attack. I'll go to the corner and rock back and forth for a while now :P

Going back to the actual article presented at the beginning of this post...

I can totally see why some (don't know stats) American women choose to DIY birth at home. Their medical system is terrible. Even in the public hospitals, I am of the belief you still come away with a bill. Anyone correct me if I am wrong.

It is similar here. although I should say Australian people are lucky to have medicare and access to free health care, however that does not mean that there are holes and that all is fair. The gap between the rich and poor is great, and what health services people of diff SES backgrounds have access to is not equitable.

I guess as long as that is the case women of lower SES status will have less options in pregnancy, labour and birth.

As women I think we should be more understanding to other womans plights rather than demonizing and marginalizing them. Esp. in such a patriachal society, women should fight for other women's liberties and rights (esp. health care)

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Yes, but I believe my education and my attitude do guarantee me the birth that I want.

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I am tertiary educated and that doesn't guarantee me of the birth I want!!! Am I missing something.



I am so vulnerable (Pain, emotions etc.) during birth. I don't want to be interferred with but it has happened to me and afterwards I felt like I had let them walk all over me and tell me what to do, I believe that the hospital staff are well aware of this and use this to their advantage.

I read that as meaning that Epacris had educated herself about childbirth and adopted a positive attitude towards it. That she was only referring to childbirth nothing broader.

I don't know if any amount of reading that I have done or could do would prevent medical intervention. Doctors generally don't listen to the women that they are treating for pregnancy, and I believe that if they appear to be they are humouring you.

A birth at home for me is to prevent this.

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I am tertiary educated and that doesn't guarantee me of the birth I want!!! Am I missing something.



I am so vulnerable (Pain, emotions etc.) during birth. I don't want to be interferred with but it has happened to me and afterwards I felt like I had let them walk all over me and tell me what to do, I believe that the hospital staff are well aware of this and use this to their advantage.

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Not sure what you mean by this?? Did you have a birth plan/partner to advocate for you?? Just confused as I had voiced my birth intentions to my partner/midwife/ob anyone really who would need to know.

I don't think medical staff like midwives and nurses set out to control AT ALL, i just think that the system in which they are forced to work is so rigid that unless they do as the hopsital says they are basically on their own - like when my 1st midwife came to check me and i was 2-3cm after 11 hours of labour i know she was worried about getting home because she thought it'd be midnight before she delivered and she had to use public transport to get home (a good distance away) which stopped at 11pm. The relief when i delivered at 6.20pm was tangible from her! At hospital her shift ends when it ends so she can make provision to get home knowing when she can go, whereas on homebirth shifts she gets to go home when the birth is finished or 12 hours after she arrives - that is a RIDICULOUSLY long shift! 12 HOURS and that is from when she was called to me - she might have been near the end of an 8 hour hospital shift when i called her! I feel strongly that Midwives should be supported in their roles much better so they are ABLE to help women achieve the births they want.

Epacris, i think i get what you were trying to say, that because you have really looked at your options and know what you want your birth will be less simple to hi-jack? Sadly there are educated and determined women (i know a few) who were basically lied to during labour - i know 2 women who had induced labours and then c-sections because bubs was distressed. In one case the efm trace shows NO distress at all, and in the other the sintocin drip wasn't turned down to see if it eased the late decels before moving to section even though mum was in transition when they were happening. If an Ob tells you "i need to do a section or your baby will die" and you only later find out it wasn't true - education and determination aren't going to make any difference.

One of the reasons i wanted a homebirth is because i KNEW i wouldn't be able to fight off intervention in labour. I was too focused on the sensations in my body, too vulnerable. I chose to minimise the chance of intervention by staying at home rather than having to try to stave it off in hospital. I cannot imagine how hard it would be not to have even that option.

I fully agree Dach that midwives and doulas should be as fully renumerated as obs and there should not be an expectation that just because catching the baby is a privilege their time and skill shouldn't be paid for properly BUT i do not think the individual should have to meet the costs in some circumstances but not others. Either public healthcare pays for all of it, or none of it and everyone has insurance. Money shouldn't be a factor for the individual, the poor deserve good births as much as the rich do.

a bit O/T but one of the things which struck me so hard about the Dutch maternity care article is the statement that there is no culture of litigation in the Netherlands because the government DOES help those who have suffered malpractice or injury at the hands of medical professionals, they don't need to sue to get money to help with care.

Bx

Yeah I took epacris statement the same as you dach. I went into my first birth as a young 19yr old with absolutley no idea. For my 2nd/3rd births I was more informed of choices available and voiced as such. Even post natally I was not pressured when told I needed a blood transfusion, simply refused, and that was that. THIS knowledge/education that I gained after my first birth, enabled me to birth subsequently in a positive manner. And btw, my second was public delivered by midwives, and my last was private with an ob.

I find it a bit hard to vocalise what I want in labour so even though I had shared my birth intentions before the birth while I was labouring I found it hard to make desicions and express myself.

Oh the posts are disappearing before my eyes! Just went back to re-read and some major editing going on.

I understand that Dach, but what I am trying to say I spose is because labour is so unpredictable i.e. progress etc, sometimes our intentions do change (pain relief for example), but if it is known what we wanted prior to labour then this can be reaffirmed back before making a change to what was originally wanted. Does that make sense!!!??

Anyway, I think home births are great, freebirth no. Too risky imo if their is no medical help on hand if need be.

Dach was not able to get message due to pop up blocker on my lap top and it is vista and all new to me. Apologies

I guess this thread has gone a little of the topic of DIY birth in USA and more on birthing options and others opinions on that her in OZ (probably no thanks to me... sorry)

I guess what I think about DIY birth, because it is going round in my head and I want to have one with my partner and lovely doula this time, is that we should support other womens birthing options.

In America women want babies too but because of their health system have tougher choices, they have higher rates of intervention in their hospitals (and just imagine why, people actually successfully sue over there if doctors injure or maim them or worse kill them).
So I can understand their choices for DIY birth esp. if they cant access safer alternatives.

With regards to myself birthing my first baby at 20 and being told to shut up with a posterior birth, having gas shoved in my face forcefully being shoved onto my side by a midwife, being in stirrups and having to listen to a doctor and registrar talk about female circumcision while being sewed back up. Having baby born not breathing due to 3 shots of peth and I could add more. This was absolute assault I will never ever forget this experience and it has created so much anxiety and pain.

My CS 2nd birth was better but I was lied to etc etc.

Women should support other women in matters of childbirth because the hosp system def. does not

Thanks Epacris, way to go to really know what happens at birth. Maybe you ought to talk to a woman who is VERY well educated, educated herself about childbirth and then had... well, my birth. Way to go to make me feel even worse than I already do right now about everything. *claps hands*. I guess I'm just stupid then. I'm not refering to anything broader than childbirth here either.

I don't have a baby bonus, but I do have free health care. Because their pay doesn't depend on my happiness, their being at my birth doesn't depend on me choosing them, I cannot trust these people. At all. I don't think a free system solves anything - you're just another number, hurry up and get her out because it's lunchtime and we're bored of you now.

Swinging back to freebirth rather than homebirth again now...

ETA s361768, I really feel for you. That birth is MORE than reason to not trust anyone around you ever again. I agree, it is assault, it is a complete violation and HOW do these people get away with it? I didn't even see an ob during pregnancy once, let alone when they were all for chopping me up (only chopped me up a little). OK, I saw a couple of registrars, but they're still supposed to be learning, how do they learn if not from someone who has qualified? Just from violating the women they see?

Dachs I did get the message, I am still navigating myself around this forum.

I find that registrars can be more defensive, dismissive and brutal in their treatment of a pregnant or birthing women than the consultants. You see more registrars at the hosp here than consultants.

Which makes no difference in the long run because most of them are anti-mothers choice. My last preg the consultant didn't argue with my birth plan but said that if I didn't want med intervention to stay away from the hosp till the last min, knowing himself that tertiary hosp are high intervention, lovely English midwife said the same thing to me on the day. Thank god for that advice. Although I did take them literally and almost birthed in the car...Really I was just terrified of going to hosp because of what they may have done to me.

I didn't go, even though I was told that my uterus could rupture etc (VBACer) I could die baby could die, that is how frightened I was.

I’m sorry s361768 and Rosehip Fairy (and anyone else). I didn’t realise that what I had said would upset you so deeply. I wish you all the very, very best for your future birthing experiences.

I find the topic of freebirth very interesting. I can completely understand why American women are choosing this option- their birth options are appalling with the high level of medicalisation and infant mortality. But then they have no assistance for any other option. I know things need to improve in Australia but at least we do have publically funded birth centres and even homebirths in some states.

In saying that I'm not saying we should be complacent and settle for what we have- homebirths should be pubically funded and available to all women so that they can access midwife support at home rather than feeling that a freebirth is their only option. This would also ensure that midwives are being paid what they should- they shouldn't feel they need to cap their costs at the baby bonus or something to make themselves affordable. It would even cost the nation less to support homebirths rather than accommodating all births in hospitals.

When deciding on our birth options I really wanted a homebirth but decided on a birth centre with a doula due to the cost. I know we could have spent the BB on a homebirth so at the end of the day this is my choice and something I've made peace with (on the understanding that next time is a homebirth regardless of cost ;)). I started to freak out about the birth centre though and considered a freebirth for a while. I'm not sure if I could ask my doula to assist us at home- that's a huge responsibility and I don't have the time to study everything I would need to to feel safe birthing my baby unassisted. For now, I'm happy again with our original decision of birth centre so we'll see how we go- I think I have fantastic support in my H and doula.

Freebirth reminds me of my cat and how she'll instantly hide and be by herself when feeling unwell. It seems very primal and natural to be on your own in pain to focus and listen to exactly what your body needs. I admire women who have the confidence to do this as I think it could be a very positive experience.

Christina (the lady in story in the original post) and I belong to another forum and I have gotten to know her though posts over the last 8 months and she is honestly one of the most inspirational ladies. She did not go into this process blindly, she is one of the the most educated women on the subject you could ever meet.

Melissa

For my next baby, i am having a homebirth (its been decided even though i'm not pregnant yet!) and if I can't arrange/afford a private midwife, I'll be delivering by myself. The bleeding thing scares me, which i suppose is the point. If you don't have a midwife there to stitch you up then you're done for >.<

Baby socks did you have a traumatic birth in the hospital? What was reason for your decision to homebirth next time?

The thought of PPH scares me too. I went to my 38 week hospital appointment and was told amongst other things that I have the same chance of uterine rupture as the last time, even after I birthed my baby naturally (he was my VBAC).
As a result when (or if) I come into hospital I have to have constant foetal monitoring. I really just want to birth at home, because of the fear of being treated badly again etc but they really know how to put the fear into a near due pregnant woman.

So I don't know what to do now. I am just really worried and anxious about having this baby (my fourth)

Any chance you could get a doula to support you. Even a student doula if you can't afford to pay. They make a huge differance in women's satisfaction with their birthing.

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...play.php?f=111

Baby socks, you have time to prepare yourself for a homebirth and save up to afford a midwife, so time is on your side with that. The bleeding is a worry, but there are things you can do to help with that.

s361768, I think that there is an article on here with the stats in regards to uterine rupture. I would have thought that since your scar has been tested successfully before that there would be a slightly smaller chance this time round of it happening. I had a PPH with my 3rd birth and required a transfusion, and the odds of it happening with #4 were slightly higher, but then they were higher simply because it was my 4th baby, but it is still only a small chance of it happening at all. I'm sure that in the event of you needing to go to hospital, then surely you can negotiate the monitoring - you've already proved you can vaginally birth a baby. Are you thinking about having a hospital birth now?

I am because I am worried about everything that could go wrong. I have been pretty up and down about it all pregnancy but I think I am even more indecisive now that I have only 2 weeks to go.

I am petrified of the hospital system because I know me and I know that I will not be able to advocate for myself (even though I know I will have my doula with me) I don't want what has happened in the past to happen again. My doula has had some problems with obs and midwifes in hospital system because of sticking up for her clients and I dont want that drama while I am in labour. I just wish I could be more self assertive and vocalise what I want and not be ignored.

What about a detailed written birth plan?
Using the term "I do not consent" where ever possible/applicable. If they have a black and white document that clearly states that you don't consent to certain procedures they might be less likely to try them for fear of litigation.

It's a tough one. What about your DH? What are his feelings on the subject? If you think that he will be a good enough advocate, it might not be a drama and your Doula will back him up. Having any potential hassle during birth isn't going to be conducive for a smooth birth, so if you decide to go to hospital, go over everything with them, in black and white, and make sure that they are clear on it. They can't do anything against your wishes.

My doula went through my birth plan with me today, which was great. With regards to my partner he goes to mush at the hospital. He believes it is because he is too emotionally involved. That is why he likes the idea of a doula.

I hope that they will read over my birth plan at the hospital if I go.

Thank you for your advice!!!

During my labour, the midwives were horrible and offered no support or comfort whatsoever save ONE who talked me through the 8 - 10cm dilation and pushing phases. They also took Aurelia away from me without my permission and I missed out on that bonding time.

I don't think I'll be able to save up thousands of dollars to be honest because we just don't have the money. We live in perth and rent is SO ridiculous and so many people want housing, we're living with my parents right now because we just can't get out! A doula would be a really good idea, though I still REALLY don't want to birth at home!! Though my partner isn't happy about that idea AT ALL.