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I dont think internals or doppler are intervention as it doesn't affect the outcome. Natural is labour starting on its own, and finishing on its own, without the augmentation or interference of anything else. That is natural for want of the technical term. There is nothing wrong with a vaginal birth, there is nothing wrong with using what you need. A great, empowered experience I think is way better.
I call my labour natural as i had no intervention at all. My waters broke on their own as my labour was spontaneous. I went 18 hours just breathing through contractions. I did however have some pain relief but no drugs i was VERY strict about that. And i birthed without any help, my midwife filled out paperwork while talking to me and making me breathe.
I would love for my next labour to be completely natural so no pain relief at all. But i would stay at home as long as possible. I think thats what ruined my first time was i rushed to the hospital and had awful midwives that made me lose my confidence.
My first birth was a necessary c-section at 37 weeks. The funny thing here is I had to FIGHT to get this intervention. I woke up one day with my intuition going nutso, so went in to get monitored and did so for the next few days, each time the results came back just over the line so they just fobbed me off as the young silly little girl who was too posh to push when I asked for a c-section - but I knew something was wrong. In the end I had a melt down in the hospital and they gave me the c-section based on "maternal distress"... that was until they pulled DD out. She had a true knot in her cord, it was wrapped twice tightly around her neck and was about to detach from the naval. I remember seeing the cord, it was pulled so tight at the naval it was translucent like glad wrap and I could see the blood as it pumped through. One contraction, or bump or wrong move and I wouldn't have been giving birth to a live baby.
For DS being a VBAC I had every intention of going as natural as possible. But when DS turned posterior and no encouragement/position etc. would get him to move and with also having SPD it didn't work out that way. Over a labour that lasted for 36 hours, I had two lots of water injections, 4 internals, an IV with fluids as I couldn't eat or drink without feeling REALLY sick, an epidural at 34 hours in a last ditch attempt before they tried to pack me off for another c-section as I had only dilated to 4cm after all that work. I believe that the epidural was a necessary intervention (although I fought to stay away from it with all my might) but whether it was me being able to relax with the possy baby or being able to lie on my back and stabilise my hyper-mobile pelvis, I dilated the final 6cm in just under 2 hours and was able to birth my baby through my vagina! :dance: And I also had the Sinto injection plus a sinto IV as I had a PPH.
I have yet to have a fully natural birth, but in my instance, I believe I got my necessary births.
I had a completely natural labour and birth with DD (9.5hr posterior labour & birth), no drugs or gas and pregnancy was totally normal, no meds etc needed..... however I did get a needle to help with the placenta at the end but I still call my labour and birth natural because it was :) the placenta is just 3rd stage after the baby is already out!
This baby though, I am not getting the needle and am hoping for an active 3rd stage so that will be nice.
I only give birth in public hospitals with middy care :D
I didn't have a natural birth. I had a unnecesarean with DD. And then went on to have a VBAC with DS. I didn't have any drugs during birth but I did have ARM. I had a natural 3rd stage and then ended up needing some help to stop with bleeding. Then when the afterbirth kicked in I had Peth. The birth itself apart from ARM I was fine LOL! But that was also thanks to my doula. I was begging for drugs at one point believe me LOL! But then I moved and it was fine.
I think for those of you that feel somewhat disappointed in the term natural birth or that, by it's definition, your birth wasn't. Please be happy in knowing you have every right to be just as proud of your birth as those that did have a natural birth. That doesn't take away from those that did have a natural birth, and I'm sure they wouldn't want to take away from how proud you are of your birth regardless :) Empowered birth to me is the most important birth. Where you do everything you choose and are informed about those choices and therefore are empowered regardless of outcome. Sometimes intervention is necessary and sometimes it isn't. Knowing the difference is important too :) Knowing your own limits and strengths is probably the most empowering of all. xxx
Out of my five births only one of them was completely natural and intervention free.
It was my 2nd son and he was my biggest baby.
My first was intervention all the way. Induced, drips, Internals, drugs, forceps, episotomy, stitches, and more needles due to retained placenta. :duh:
The other three have had varying degrees of intervention but im ok with it. I have five beautiful healthy babies so to me im completely fine with what happened to get them here.
My second was natural. I went into proper labour in my aqua class and but the time I got to hospital was in transition, there was no time for drugs even though I asked for gas my mw just kept talking the whole time she was excellent.
DS2 was born 40 mins after we arrived and the placenta was birthed about 5 minutes after he was.
First was vaginal but was induced and I had gas and ARM (but this was during the final stages of delivery to avoid an epi, not as an induction method)
Ditto Cai. I had the birth I needed to have. And look where I am now :p
Terms aren't so important. But for those who want to get technical there will always be definitions. You all did a beautiful job! xx
I have only had one birth but yep, absolutely no drugs by plan, no epidural, no gas, nothing :happydance: Waters broke on their own and a physiological 3rd stage, although we had to fight to get this as the Dr had not heard of it :shakehead: I did have 1 internal as I was continually being told I wasnt ready to push and it was more of me saying 'I am damn well am, look for yourself' type thing iykwim :lol:
First birth - Intervention free, drug free, no oxytocin for placenta natural birth in birth centre. She was born in the caul.
Second birth - Intervention free, drug free, no oxytocin for placenta natural birth in country hospital. The doctor tried to make me lay on the bed to deliver...so I said I need to go to the bathroom and birthed him there and the nurse was at the door but had no idea until she turned around and I was pulling him up. He was a precipitous birth.
Third birth - 1 1/2 hr labour, no drugs or intervention, no oxytocin for placenta. Precipitous birth...I 'caught' him when I birthed in the bottom of the shower at the hospital.
Forth birth - 2hr drug, intervention free labour, no oxytocin for placenta. Also a precipitous birth and I also 'caught' him in the bottom of the shower.
He was born with pneumonia so I didn't get long to hold him before they took him :(
Fifth - Waters broke and then a 2hr drug, intervention free labour, no oxytocin for placenta and cord left pulsating before cutting.. She was supposed to be a homebirth but unfortunately due to being in a rush to meet us at 35 weeks we had to got o the hospital but I had my lovely homebirth middie with me and I got a wonderful birth. She had to go down to the nursery after an hour because of breathing and temp control issues.
Sixth and Seventh labour couldn't be more different...problem pregnancies, prom, cervical stitch. Both c-sections...first classical section at 28 weeks and second a bikini c-section at 25 weeks.
I must admit I am still very disappointed...but nothing I could do it saved my babies lives.
I consider DD a natural birth, I had 1 internal and that was actually at my Ob's office for a check up, not realising I was in established labour and finding out I was 8cm. Was sent to the hospital, and they used the doppler a few times, but otherwise that was it. The bath was my drug and I pushed when I needed to, placenta arrived by itself about 40 minutes after DD did.
I was on the way to a natural birth with DS2, no internals all pregnancy, in the bath as soon as we got into the birth suite, after much pushing born into my hands, little cuddle, confirmed with mw I didn't want the needle for the placenta, then the water turned claret (to quote the mw) then all systems go, out of the bath, onto the bed, needle for the placenta. So an almost natural birth except for the placenta, but the intervention was justified.
DS1 I had gas and the needle for the placenta, and a very painful internal during labour (the only internal the whole preganancy) none of which in hindsight I think was necessary.
Neither of mine were natural.
DD1 - AROM, emerg cs.
DD2 - spontaneous ROM and labour, no S&S, but did have to have ABs, and it all ended with me delivering in an operating theatre with an epi and spinal, due in part to jittery hospital staff and the inability of a midwife or and ob to recognise I was actual in transition. I did have delayed cord clamping, and immediate skin to skin, but no physiological third stage due to the circumstances.
Mind you, in my mind the second one was "natural" - she came out of my vagina, as opposed to my abdomen, so that has to be natural ;)
I love that and that's how I felt too :D You rock!:
DD3 was pretty much natural posterior, but I accepted one internal & was given the placenta shot after it was birthed in case there was any retained (I had a small PPH after DD2).
DD1, gas, peth & VE's.
DD2, 2 internals, one suck on gas, ARM, placenta shot (can't think of name)
DS, one breath of gas, 2 internals, no placenta shot.
ETA, seriously, if you want an intervention free labour, come to my hospital! They are under strict rules regarding BMI (:rolleyes:), but will accept you booking in JIC. MW run clinic with 2 gp/obs for back up.
When I had DD3, they'd had 2 emergency transfers to Coffs Harbour JIC, in 2 years & they ended up doing the right thing (bubs in SCN).
My wishes were their command!
I consider my birthing natural - but was given 'gas' because I couldn't help pushing, but I wasn't fully dilated. I don't think any gas was turned on (or if it was, it was minimal) but it just helped me refocus so I didn't push...
I did have a needle, but can't remember if it was before or after the placenta came out ?? :dunno:
Didn't even see a Dr until he had to interview me 3 days later for discharge. :rofl: Don't think I had much other interraction, but did have stitches...
Just went back and read all the replies...
If I were as eloquent, I would have said it myself lol:
You know this is a wonderful sentiment- and it's helped me actually, as I was not happy with the way things went with DS. BUT I know that I was involved in all of the decision making and I also know I made the best choices for him entering the world.:
Empowered birth to me is the most important birth. Where you do everything you choose and are informed about those choices and therefore are empowered regardless of outcome. Sometimes intervention is necessary and sometimes it isn't. Knowing the difference is important too Knowing your own limits and strengths is probably the most empowering of all. xxx
Just to add to the list. Nope, not natural. S&S, AROM, every drug, forceps, epi, needle in the leg, transfusion and 10 days of treatment afterwards. Natural? Nope. But we're both here and healthy :) Would I do it differently? If I could safely, yes.
My first was close- spontaneous labour with no medical pain relief (and no internals if we're counting those) but I had a managed 3rd stage due to excessive bleeding. This was a birth centre birth and would have been natural had I not bled as they were happy to have a natural 3rd stage and we had planned for it.
My second labour was a natural birth with no drugs or intervention at any stage. I was asked to push hard to get his shoulders out at the end as they weren't budging but I don't consider that intervention as birthing women have been helping each other through labour in that way since the beginning of time.
I dont think HBs are always natural as MWs can provide a managed 3rd stage at home if it's needed.
Hmmm..... not sure where I fit in. :) I'm a BB'er, but not Australian. Not American either.
Anyways, here's my list:
DD1 (pre-BB) - waters ruptured spontaneously at home in early labour, laboured without augmentation, received a nubain shot at 7cm, delivered naturally, without tearing, received oxytocin for placenta.
DD2 - waters broken in hospital at 5-6 cm at my request, laboured without augmentation, received demerol shot, delivered naturally without tearing, received oxytocin for placenta.
DD3 - home waterbirth. pre-labour all day, until waters broken at my request, delivered naturally 2 hours later, no tearing, no pain relief meds, received oxytocin for placenta.
DD4 - hospital birth (GBS+ :( ) pre-labour all day, four hours of true labour, "had" to have IV antibiotics in labour, waters broken at my request, no pain relief, delivered naturally, no tearing, received oxytocin for placenta.
DS1 - home birth. prelabour all day, stretch and sweep at my request, true labour started, waters broken at 7cm at my request, pushed for 1 hr, and delivered a brow presentation posterior baby, without tearing, received oxytocin for placenta.
So I guess I've had some interventions, but nothing I didn't consent to, which I'm grateful for, and I have pushed all my babies out without augmentation, epidural, episiotomy, forceps, ventouse, etc.
I'm lucky enough to be able to say both of mine were natural, no pain relief and no medical intervention.
It's something I know so many wish for and I consider myself extremely lucky.
I consider the birth of DS was natural. As you know it was at Selangor. When I got there they hooked me up to the monitor while I stood up, that was on for about 5 minutes while dh went and moved the car and this was optional but we didn't mind doing it as in teh very beginning it wasn't invasive at all. By the time he got back I was ready to go to the birth suite. The MW left us be for about an hour. When she came in she suggested I got in the bath and she dimmed the lights right down and sat at the end of the bath. The only other thing that was done was when bub was about to be born she popped the doppler on for a few seconds to make sure bub was ok, I didn't even know she was doing it as I didn't have to move out of the bath or anything. I didn't have any internal examination or pain relief as they weren't needed. I wasn't given any injections at all as I birthed the placenta naturally and I am blood type + . They waited until bubs cord stopped pulsing before clamping and they didn't give DS any injections either (our choice). dh received bub too and lifted him out of the water. I guess it helps to have your birth plan on paper. All in all I'd say it was as natural as it can be and the intervention of a doppler and a quick 5 min monitoring on arrival was optional anyway :) After the birth the hospital left us to bond skin on skin as a family, helped me with breastfeeding at every attachment for the entire time I was there as this is what I asked for and they let us co-sleep from day one. It was amazing and I can't wait to have #2 there!
^^^ me too ZF!! Very lucky and luck of the draw to get such beautiful and supportive midwives as well.:
^^yeah that^^. My midwife rocked! I was so lucky as I just got whoever was on when I arrived. Whenever I said I couldn't do it anymore, she reminded me to let my body do what came naturally.:
Neither of mine :(
DD1 waters broke spontaneous labout, natural delivery, 1 internal at 7-8cm, no drugs, but episiotomy which was necessary two tears getting very nasty and HR was dropping to the point of no HB, then synto (?) for placenta, but none of this was to plan being 33 weeks and hadn't even written my birth plan. TBH it is as natural as I will get and I will be proud of my achievements :D
DD2 c/s, well the crap hit well an truely hit the fan by that stage... we were going to try a Breech VB, but in the end neither of us were well enough to attempt a VB.
Future deliveries will highly likely be repeat CS due to various complications.
But I will say that even though we didn't achieve a completely natural birth, they were both truely amazing, I still had a huge high after each one, I pushed one baby out and the other arrive via the french doors and I am happy with that, I guess it gives me a better perspective and understanding on different births.
my mw did this for me too, as DD was posterior and I wanted to push at 6cm. Other than that, I had no drugs with DD, but she was taken off me quite quickly for oxygen as she was flat, and i did have a managed 3rd stage, but it was still a very empowering birth in my head as it was long and difficult and I still managed it without drugs or intervention (and I was pushing for 2.5 hours!) I had SROM with DD too.:
DS felt a lot more natural, apart from having a canuula for ABs, but I was left to just let labour start in its own time (I had SROM 24hours before anything happened) and then because the labour and delivery suites were busy, I was left to get on with things in an antenatal room - noone buzzing around, just me and hubby until he realised I was in transistion. I was actually only in delivery for 10minutes until DS was born, and I was able to stay in my preferred position of standing during pushing. Again, I had a managed 3rd stage.
The recovery after DS's birth was alot quicker than DD, but it was a much quicker labour and pushing stage, and I didn't have any stitching.
So probably not natural, but natural enough for me, and definately empowering as I got to labour my way both times.
Yep spontaneous birth at home, with natural third stage. My mw does have injections in case of pph and tbh I was glad of that. I don't see why hospitals can't wait and see how the placenta is before giving the shot?
Hoping for a similar experience this time.
Nope. All 4 of mine have had some minor form of intervention. The most "natural" was #3 & #4 that only had the synto injection for the placenta. #1 had membranes ruptured and #2 needed MROP.
I have with DD almost 15 years ago, no intervention no drugs not even a doctor.
DS i had no intervention but had pethidine once other than that it was natural.
I have had 3 completely natural births. The first one they broke my waters though (at pushing stage), because bubs got distressed and the sack was preventing her from getting out.
Not through choice.
If I had of had the choice, I would have had epidurals with all three. I will be hoping for an epidural this time round - but given the history of quick labours (the last was under 2hrs) and that my hospital is about a 40min drive from my house, I'm not really holding out much hope.
This is an interesting question. I agree with what rouge said about empowered birth.
We chose a hospital that had a midwife led program, and had the lowest intervention rate in NSW. They were very open and encouraging of active labour. The birth class focused on natural pain relief (heat packs, bath, shower, movement, breathing), and told of available interventions, and when you might choose to use them. It is a baby friendly hospital, so breastfeeding was encouraged and well supported too. So for us, this was the right choice.
If you want a natural birth, being empowered is essential. That means finding your best support and location. Be it home, birth centre, hospital or some other location, by yourself, with your partner, with a doula, a midwife or an OB (or a combination of all these).
Well I have always thought of all 4 of mine natural as I gave birth without drugs, but have had Help...
DS1 he wasnt really natural as he was induces and they broke my waters to help him out, had to sweep away the cervix lip
DD1 I didnt have any internals but they did brake my waters, and had to sweep my cervix lip away
DD2 no internals water broke natrually but did need the lip of my cervix sweeped away ( I seem to always have a little bit that gets stuck and my babies can come until its gone...
DS2 was all me..
with all 4 though I have had the needle to help me birth the placenta... so I guess that makes me not compleatly natural..
I was lucky enough to have the same midwife birth both my girls in Cairns, not only did she remember me everytime I said I couldnt do it she would remind me about something that happened in DD1s birth to prove I could do it...
With DS2 I think the thing that helped me most of all was the fact I have watched my sister birth her son 4 mths before, she had a shocking birth I was very dissapointed in her doctor, but thats a whole different story, but watching her helped me realise when they tell you screaming isnt helping anyone ( I have always been a screamer lol ) that it really doesnt... so when I started to birth my son this time I didnt scream I moaned like an animal and it made everything so much easier...
Ask me in a couple of weeks ;)
Sent from my iPhone so forgive the speelung misstacks ;)
No for both!
DD1 - synto for induction after waters breaking 12 hours prior, peth, gas, episiotomy, scalp monitor of DD and injection for placenta (PPH).
DD2 - AROM about 5mins before she was born!
I had a natural birth in my books.
I did have a jab for my placenta, and then so many stitches they stopped counting and an epidural while the Ob with the biggest hands in the world put my hoo ha back together (seemingly from the inside out LOL)
I have always thought of them as things that happened after the birth as such so it depends on your perspective.
DH would say that the most unnatural thing that is associated with DD's birth was the hospital food :)
I think it depends what you call natural. I think mine were but make of it what you will.
DS1 - spontaneous rupture of membranes, got to hospital at 7cm dilated, hooked up to monitor, birthed bub shortly after and (against my better judgement) had the shot in the leg to hurry up the placenta. Damn ob - I think she was on the clock. Anyway ... no pain relief drugs, no prodding or suction etc with medical instruments.
DS2 - labour began, in hospital at about 6cm dilated, laboured happily while hooked to a monitor but standing upright, my choice to ask for ARM (ahhhh, bliss), bub born 30 mins later. No shot in the leg to hurry up placenta .. "surprisingly" it did that job all by itself shortly after DS2 was born. No pain relief drugs, no prodding, suction or whatever with medical instruments.
While I would have chosen not to be monitored, both my boys heart rates dipped a little lower than they should have at various stages during the latter parts of their births, so it made sense to keep tabs on it.
Just to expand a little, I intended from day 1 of pregnancy to have natural births - I just "felt" I could do it. I researched what happens during birth (as in why things feel the way they do and what's happening with muscles, ligaments etc), educated myself, took hypnobirthing course ... pretty much did whatever I could possibly do to try and get the best possible outcome for me to achieve my aims.
Although I didn't know what to expect for how my birth would go (before DS1), I wasn't nervous ... just curious and excited. For whatever reason I had self-confidence and self-belief in my ability to birth without need for drugs. I did have two straight forward births - I had lots of accupuncture, massage and relaxation exercises in the latter stages of both pgs, and maybe those things helped. I was also adamant no medical person was going to force me into doing something I didn't want (case in point, I discharged myself from hosp against advice with DS1 to go home and establish labour. Their reasoning? My waters had broken. No, really? Promise I wont go have sex or sit in dirt).
Anyhoo, I'm not anti-intervention. It can be very necessary. I'm just anti-having-your-choice-taken-away-from-you-by-Obstetricians-who-perform-medical-births-and-forget-what-a-natural-birth-is-and-expect-you-to-perform-to-a-clock. Thank God I had a supportive Ob!
Whatever the case, I guess my feeling is that knowledge = less fear/tension = confidence to birth naturally = increased natural births. IF THAT'S WHAT MUM WANTS. Cos it's her choice how she births :)
Um, sorry for long post. I didn't realise I was passionate about natural birth until I had my sons.
one labour
29 hours of labour at home in birthing pool
ambulance ride
7 hours of medical intervention, allegedly to bring labour on more strongly, but it actually had the opposite effect
then emergency c-section (which they had been wanting me to have, the whole time i was there)
during emergency c-section, obst discovered "bandl's ring" happening to my uterus (strangling baby to death) and after forceps, and vacuum failed (yes during a c-section), the whole team, not just the obs, had to collectively use much more violent methods to get baby out (to break the suction of the uterine muscles) so bilby came out by an arm, very suddenly yanked out, not breathing
it was the kind of labour, that in the "olden days", a woman might be in labour for five days, then mother and baby would end up dead at the end of it. so medical intervention was warranted, but i still grieve for the natural water birth i really really really wanted to have. Band's Ring is very uncommon, but it does happen. Uterine muscles strangle the baby, instead of contract and expand (like in normal labour), all they do is contract, VERY tightly.
and immediately after - no trauma counselling, nothing, just "just be glad you have a breathing baby and forget it all".
Took maybe a year before i could walk and stand normally. Stomach muscles took a pounding (due to how they got her out).
Natural birth? Well....yes, no and otherwise.
Yes, she came out of my vagina. But not by herself.
36hrs from start of contractions to birth. No pain killers. Back-to-back. Pushed for 3 hours before being told I was being taken "upstairs to get this baby out" (C-sect), which I refused to let them do. BP was taken and over the roof and wee was tested. "Oh btw, you have Pre-Eclampsia" Thanks guys. Also remember senior middie saying "Why didn't anyone check the position of the baby?" Told to get on back and stay there. Injected with something to take BP down. Doctor came to vacuum (the big sink plug on chain type one) DD out - she was blue, but alive and coloured up in a few minutes apparently. Had big Episiotomy. Had big PPH. Spent 4 days in ICU on fluids, clotting agents and blood pressure drugs...then 6 days on 'normal' ward.
Remember Dr talking me through him reaching both arms into me and trying to turn DD around...jeeebus...a fully grown man's arms are NOT meant to go inside vaginas.
I just watched the Docco A breech in the system, and the midwife on there said that around 10% of hospital births are intervention free. The other 90% have some form of intervention, be it drugs or help with the delivery, or induction or whatever.
I consider my VBA2C to be a natural birth although I did have AROM at 10cm cos I asked for it. But 3 days of labour, no drugs, respect for my birth plan and doing it my way is my definition of natural birth;)
I was pretty close but I used the gas, so not natural I guess.
Otherwise the birth was intervention free. Waters broke on their own, contractions started 7 hours later, no 'instruments' used, no injection for placenta and no stitches :)