wow.. on the pro biotics thing. are you able to get it seperate to give to bubs??
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wow.. on the pro biotics thing. are you able to get it seperate to give to bubs??
I imagine so? I don't think they're a new thing...I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but is Yakult a pro-biotic?
holly go to your health food shop you can get it in kids form, i think its a powder HTH!
Just another reason why breast is best. But sometimes breast cant be done for what ever reason. I dont think anybody is pointing fingers saying"Your kid will be fat if you feed it formula."
But its just ANOTHER study proving the benefits of breast. If possible.....
Alot of women who FF (NOT ALL) feel the need to ignore the facts. Your not a bad mother if you FF, not at all. But please dont deny (SP) the goodness of it. This to me shows that you are not truly happy in your reasons to FF.
This to me shows that you are not truly happy in your reasons to FF.
ur right kass, im not. i never have been. i gave up.. i shouldnt have. I took up smoking again so re-lactating isnt the best idea. I stuffed up big time, but i have learnt my lesson and once Mia is off bottles.. they will be givin away and for the next bub i WILL not have bottles.. formula.. or even a pump. And i swear that hospital gives the next bub formula, oh boy will they be sorry. AND if they tell me they dont have time to help me to breast feed they will be getting a new bum hole!!!
thanks girls, will be heading to the health food shop on monday.
I must admit it was articles like this that made me feel sooo distressed when I needed to feed my baby formula at 2 weeks old. I had low supply and he really wasn't well (forget meeting percentiles or whatever- he was plain losing weight and looking very unwell).
I had tried and tried to boost supply following advice from midwives and hospital lactation consultants. I was a member of the ABA and used their helpline. I thought I was doing everything right and shouldn't have to be dealing with the situation I was in. But I was and I had to give my son formula or face him being even sicker and in hospital and our BFing journey over for sure.
So I comp fed the barest minimum I could, got in a top notch lactation consultant and beat the supply issues. After almost 2 weeks my son was back off formula which I was ecstatic about but these stats still played with my mind... until I realised that they are referring to full time formula fed babies. Babies who are at least part time breast fed are still getting the probiotics, the stem cells and everything else good these studies teach us about.
I've since developed a greater appreciation for part time breast feeding. Why is it not more widely promoted? Why are women with low supply advised to switch to full time formula feeding? I know my MCHN did that to me- she told me the amount of formula needed for full time formula feeding even though she knew I was planning on minimum comp feeding. Anyway- a prattle on from me but something that I've been thinking about a lot and something I think more women struggling to breast feed maybe need to have discussed with them as an option.
Thats very big of you to admit Hollye! I didn't mean to make you feel bad. And Im not saying all mummies who FF regret it etc. Im just saying many 'knock' bf alot of the time because they arn't doing it ;):
It is difficult to pick up a newspaper or magazine today without reading about the increasing numbers of both children and adults who are suffering health problems as a result of obesity. Speculation is that the climbing rates of obesity, especially in the United States, is largely due to a lack of physical exercise and the availability of junk food.
A possible additional factor in the incidence of obesity that is seldom mentioned is the use of infant formula instead of breastmilk. Could feeding our babies infant formula be an even more significant factor in obesity than what we now believe?
Research does, in fact, point to the increase in obesity among babies who are fed formula. There is a tendency for parents to control the amount of food the baby is getting. In contrast, breastfed babies end their own feedings when they are satisfied. Parents who see even the smallest amount left in the bottle will nearly always encourage the baby to finish the formula that is left.
Given that formula is so expensive, this is a very real possibility today. A good estimate is that formula will cost parents on average about $3-4 per day. At those prices, parents do not want to waste a drop. So they will try to encourage the baby to finish what is left and possibly force the baby to eat beyond what is satisfying to him/her. This can lead to over-feeding the baby, which in turn increases the baby's development of fat cells and eventually making obesity more likely.
I agree, this does happen. I let Mia finish when she finishes. Sometimes she drink 40 mls others 180mls. I waste alot of formula but i dont care.
Another reason that infant formula may contribute to obesity is due to the added sugar in some of the newer brands of formula such as Similac Organic. Pediatricians believe that feeding sweetened formula can cause a baby to overeat, possibly leading to obesity.
Experts suggest that unlike infant formula, breastmilk may contain growth factors that inhibit body fat. This may be one reason why breastfed babies have about a 30% reduction in the incidence of childhood obesity. Additional evidence indicates that breastfeeding reduces the incidence of obesity later into the teen years by 20%.
Kelly posted that article in March last year. So it isn't totally new. Hollye, I am not sure what has been done as a result but I imagine the formula companies will certainly be onto it. The benefits of pro-biotics have been known for years - they are available in many forms, and basically keep "good bacteria" in our digestive systems. Many people are in special need of this - including women on the pill and those taking antibiotics. Natural yoghurts are one of the more common sources.
Most people here know that I have bf my boys, but may not realise that my first DS was unable to attach at first. We had a very rocky start to bfing, and the reality is that the only difference between me (who continued to bf) and someone who was unable to continue and started ffing, is purely and simply luck. Through a couple of complete co-incidences, I found the right people to assist me with feeding with a nipple shield, and to fix the underlying problem (snipping the tongue-tie). So I do have an understanding of why so many people who wish to continue bfing don't. It can happen so easily. And I know how much disappointment, and perhaps guilt, goes along with that. The thing is though, I don't think that's a good enough reason to not continue to learn as much as we can about what is best for babies. That way others can be helped. Having the information helps us, but it doesn't mean that we need to be perfect. I know that my boys have a pretty good diet but that it could be better. I know that it is bad to get angry at the boys and yet I do. What I know and what I do isn't always the same. I am not perfect. No-one is. Knowing that breast milk is better but that your circumstances prevented you from bfing for any longer doesn't make you a bad mum. It means you are doing the best you can, just like we all do with everything. I often read articles saying that this or that is best for babies, and I didn't know that at the time so I didn't do it. But instead of feeling guilty I recognise that it is still good that the information is now available, so that the next person knows.
i remember that add now with the pro biotics. Im on antibiotics atm, and i will be for atleast 6 months.. mayb i should get some for mee too.
Will pro biotics help settle mia's stomach??
sorry for getting off subject girls.
Hollye, I've been giving Jovie probiotics since she was 11 weeks old due to issues we had. She was on a tiny amount but they both have 1/4 of a capsule daily now. The one we use is dairy free for our issues, and used to be called Nourishing Flora... its changed names, but if you go to a health food store and ask they will have heaps, some are geared towards children, that say over 3yrs old. We used it under advice and I used to drop my finger tip into the powder and Jovie would suck it off before having a breastfeed, or I would put a tiny bit of powder into her cup of rice milk.
Jovie was mainly breastfed until she was 18 months old. She still had issues with colic and food intolerances so the probiotics helped tremendously.
Kelly, interesting article.
I have to agree with Niliac, this thread should be a piece of information that you can either take or leave, there are excellent articles on here :)
For the record, I was FF right through and was not obese which is good. DD has never been ill and she is 13months now, was FF from 3 weeks old and always been very healthy. I never once felt guilt ;)
Great post ren. I too had a low supply and comp fed from 6 weeks, I feel a bit ashamed to say that I might do the same next time around. I realise the benefits of BF but also like the convenience of FF.:
to all the mums who say they get slammed for formula feeding, cos bf-ign is seen as normal.
i am a living breathing example of a breastfeeding mum who has been slammed, ever since my bub was five months old, FOR BREASTFEEDING!
i still cop it now, my child is two years old and i cop it all the time, especially at her childcare centre.
So life is not perfect, society doesn't embrace you just cos you bf - i have found the opposite - and just like you, i do what i do, in the best interests of my child. So if from tomorrow, if for some reason i stopped producing milk, or bilby coudln't suck anymore, i would put just as much energy into hunting down the best sort of FF for her, that i could find. (or whatever you are meant to give a two year old, it could be cow's milk for all i know, i have no clue what age FF babie stop havcing Formula.
every time i read these romanticised notions of "if only i breastfed i would be seen as normal", it really grates on my nerves, i think "if only they knew how that is the opposite of my reality! i WISH it were true.
i have had medical professionals pressuring me to wean too. it's never ending.
i went thru four months (in the beginning) of a very bumpy start to bf-ing. it was not easy, it did not feel natural, i needed alot of education and help to get it happening.
I am not surprised that a link has been found! FFing girls dont get me wrong - I am one - but confirming that babies are not designed to have the milk of another creature is not rocket science!! We will always see the consequensces of not eating what we should be eating, both young and old, human and animal.
I do think that there needs to be more resources put into making learning to BF easier. More readily available IBCLCs for a start!! I also think that formula should be prescription only. But when formula companies can pay off certain people and advertise in the areas that women need to go to for help to succeed in BF it is basically telling the women that they should feed their babies this junk. I know that the only reason Em is FF is her health, and hers is prescription forumla.
I have learned from what happened when I weaned Sarah. I know I was young and not thinking clearly, and I am using that experience to make sure that I do all I can to give my 3rd baby all that I can. The only bottles in my house are used for Em's formula, and I will not buy any other type of formula when DD3 arrives. I have taken the steps I believe will help me to persist.
Gigi - Sweetie, I know that the city you live in is not as up-to-date on baby care. There are not that many MCN users, and most people FF. Far too many people are set in their ways. My Dad tried to tell me that it is disgusting to BF in public :rolleyes: so I asked him to eat his lunch in the loo, because that is where he wanted his granddaughter to have hers. He soon learned that I am much more open to encouraging NORMAL baby care, than using the absolute rubbish that is on the market. Like I keep sayinghun, you would love it up here ;)
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I agree with what you've said :)
I dont believe Formula should be able to be bought, just because. I believe it should only be given to bubs because the mother 'cant' bf. Weather be for her own sanity or the fact her milk never came in. But I truly HATED it when I heard a girl tell me she wont bf because she was to much of a 'prude'. You've had a baby huny, gorw up, its time :rolleyes:
Personally, I don't think that is fair. Women should be allowed their own choice whether they want to breast feed or not. And they aren't any less of a mother because they just simply don't want to. Feeding your child is such a SMALL part of what being a mother is all about.:
I dont believe Formula should be able to be bought, just because
I did mention for the womans sanity also......health etc. Sometimes even bubs cant have BM.:
This is IMO and I dont see the problem with what I said. For many if FF was only there for extream reasons, they would soon learn the beauty of BF, as they would have no other option. I to believe education on BF needs to be there.
Its only to often I see somebody I know who is fully capable of BF and 'chooses' to FF. I bet if she was educated on BF she wouldn't choose FF.
THIS COMMENT WAS FOR THE LADIES I KNOW THAT 'CHOOSE' TO FF. Not those of you i know nothing about!
I repeat I know sometimes BF isn't an option!
Also I never said mothers who FF are any less of a mother. IMO what you feed your child throughout hes/her life IS a massive part of parenting.
wow getting real off topic now..
Um i was thinking today.. how good would it be to have a drive through kids healthy store. Like Macca's but with all healthier stuff.. like chips that arnt deep fried etc. Hrmmm
dont think too much is gooing to come of this study coz its going to be so hard to get exact proof. Statistics.. its a funny thing.
I so agree....:
I did explain myself..... I think if others are allowed to have their opinions on their right to FF I think Im allowed to my right to talk about Bf.
Im not going to bother though, as it is off topic and people are taking what Im saying out of context.
Hollye- There is an option its just some dont take that option. There's fruit instead of chips etc ;)
People should have the right to choose, I don't think anyone denies that. But I think that part of the problem is that too many mothers who wish to bf give up due to lack of support/information and ease of access to formula. It does make sense to throw more resources into providing good support and information for breastfeeding mums (and education to pregnant women and the community in general so that the first time you know anything about bfing isn't after your baby is born). And to consider reducing the availability of artificial baby milk. The low rate of bfing in Australia atm IS costing our community - we know that ff babies have more doctor visits and more hospital stays, that they are more likely to be obese during childhood, to have juvenile diabetes and a range of other, some very serious, illnesses. We know that working parents of ff babies have more sick days. It does cost the community. So no, we shouldn't stop people buying artificial baby milk altogether, but we should consider putting more resources into things that will help those who wish to bf, to overcome problems and do so.
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You worded it much better then me :)
And its exactly what I was trying to say.
Sorry if anyone took affense. But IMO and I truly believe with all my heart, if education was there and support. BF bubs would be more common and artificial baby milk would only be there for those who truly need it.
I've always wondered why articles such as this inspire guilt in those who have no choice but to formula feed. Now that I find that I'm in that position, I think I know.
We all know breast is best... it's pushed everywhere...
I was going to breastfeed, I was determined... but then I found myself with an early arrival who couldn't suck, a really stressful time in hospital, supply never really establishing and then finally a severe arthritis flare which meant I needed to begin medication where I had no choice but to formula feed.
And I felt guilty because the best I could do was to give Samuel dribbles of breast milk for two weeks. I felt like I was giving him the worst possible start - he was premature, he needed breast milk... I didn't have any worth mentioning. :(
One day, someone said something that finally broke through the fog of guilt. How dare I give my baby formula and not let him starve. :o Shocking, but it finally got through to me.
Yes, breast is best, but there are some where it's just not an option. And then it comes down to the question of is it better to give your baby formula or let your baby starve?
Sure, there may be health problems down the track from being formula fed... but at least by having formula there is actually going to be a down the track.
I still have moments, but while I am not necessarily giving my baby the best start in life, I am at least ensuring that he has a life and isn't starving to death - as that's where we'd be without formula.
Please, those of you who are upset by such articles when you had no choice but to formula feed, try to see it that way... I think of this as an indication of what we may need to look out for in Samuel in the future. Something that we can take steps to avoid later in life by encouraging a good diet and being physically active from very early on.
BW
:clap: Well said BW.
:thumbsup::clap:
BW - That is exactly why I dont feel guilty giving Em a bottle. Even at 18 months I know that I have to get it into her however she will take it, and she wont drink her formula from a cup. I feel more guilty for giving up before asking for help with Sarah, because she COULD BF.
Thank you, everyone.
It's so easy to read something like this and get stuck on thinking that it's another way that I've failed my son... but the truth is that I'm not failing him, we're just making the best of a bad situation and it would have been more of a failing to persevere with breastfeeding where he would starve.
BW
Some great comments by Manta and BW :) I totally agree. Articles like this one are valuble NOT because they inspire guilt but because they raise awareness so that possible future problems can be avoided. Would Mums who need to use artifical milk (like myself during several points of my BFing journey) prefer not to be told and then have their children suffer these preventable problems (like obesity) later on in life? Would ignorance be more blissful, really?
You're going on a journey of parenthood. You can go by bus or by taxi. I'm going to tell you how great the bus is. I'm going to impress on you how much BETTER the bus is for you and for your baby. I'm going to tell you how second-rate taxi's are for transporting kids and how careful you must be if you choose to go that way. I'm going to give you a list of bad things that can happen in the taxi and tell you how careful and vigilant you need to be if you go in one. I'm going to say whatever i can to make sure you feel, at the outset of your journey, that it's bus-or-Bust for you!
Then it's time to go. I won't tell you where the bus stop is. Um, yeah, over that way, not got time to draw you a map though... Just keep going, its THAT way, no, silly over THERE! You've got a lot to carry. I can't help you though. I'm busy. I can't give you the number of the bus company, no. Timetable? Oh you don't need one. Just DO it! Come on now, you're not trying. You're making too much of this - other women just GET ON THE BUS! I'm impatient and act bored and unsympathetic. I look at my watch and tap my foot.
Taxi's with apparently happily journeying families pass you. There are taxi's everywhere. Every now and then you see a bus, but you still have very little idea of how to hail one or get on it. Well-meaning friends and family start sending taxi's to you. You search frantically for the bus stop, for a timetable, for ANY information on how to get on the damn bus. I might stop by occasionally to tell you once again how important it is that you're on that bus. No sorry, i still don't really have time to help you get on. People passing by give you advice. Just jump on! Throw the baby on first! Use a step! Shout and the driver will come to you! It comes every 4 hours, no it comes every 2 hours, no it comes twice a day, no it doesn't stop on this road, yes it does it stops right here, did you miss it already!?
I'm getting impatient again. I don't have time for this. No i can't help you stop the bus and get on with your little family. Oh ok, fine, but be quick. Hurry up. No. You're doing it wrong. Oh for goodness sake! I do NOT have time for this! Just get a taxi!
BW you did your son proud. Those "dribbles" of milk filled his tiny tummy and kickstarted his immune system when he needed it most. When you were sore, shocked and exhausted there was no oxytocin to get your milk out. You got it out with desperate determination and love to give your little boy what he needed those precious early days. NEVER allow yourself to forget how those days ACTUALLY felt. It's so easy when the baby is fed and sleeping in your arms, when the pain is somewhat tempered with meds, when life is beginning to feel less desperate, to forget the pressures of the times when you struggled and convince yourself you failed in some way. But you did NOT fail. You squirted breastmilk in the eye of terrible adversity! You have always made sure his needs are met, and when fate threw a roadblock down you re-routed without missing a step. And i am going to keep reminding you, so you don't forget it!
Bx
Good analogy, altho I don't think it's that bad, or else no-one would be breastfeeding! And it makes the lovely ABA counsellors and LC's sound terribly impatient & cranky.
But you forgot about the taxi companies and their marketing that keeps hounding the mother to use their taxis because they're just as good as the bus. Handing out free rides just up to the next corner for you to test it out. And then there's people in the taxis.. especially the taxi drivers, yelling out to those on the bus "are you STILL on that bus???"
hmm well both my boys were FF early and neither are overweight. For every person who says their child was FF and is overweight there is just as many saying the opposite.
Jaidan was the earliest FF of my 2 and he is skinny as a rake.
For those who are uncomfortable with these studies being published or discussed, I'd like to respectfully ask, what would you prefer be done?
That research into the benefits of breastmilk not be done? Or that it not be discussed when it is done? Or that scientific research be published with caveats about how despite the findings of the research, parents who feel bad shouldn't feel that the findings might apply to them? Scientific research is not judgement, it is neutral. What we choose to do with it is another matter.
For many women, the struggles of breastfeeding are outweighed by the knowledge that breastmilk is giving particular health benefits to their child. And so they persevere, and the general benefit to the population is increased (whether or not we choose to put our anecdotal experience above empirical evidence).
It's good for our babies, it's good for mothers, and it's good for our health system, for the health-giving mechanisms of breastfeeding to be understood. I don't see that the benefit to people who feel guilty about formula feeding is more important than the benefit of giving parents the absolutely best information they can to make the most informed choices they can.
If people who have either chosen to formula feed or have been forced to do so want scientific studies to show that there are no health implications in this course of action, they're going to be upset. There's just too much evidence. So rather than shooting the messenger, let's all look towards better education and getting as much information a we possibly can, so that we can all make the best decisions we possibly can, and be at peace with them, knowing we've done the very best we could in the circumstances we found ourselves.
I thought that article was interesting. I do agree that some studies tend to find what they want. Some of the graphs they put up at uni, which show definately that something caused something, I sit there and think, but look, it was allready reducing, or couldn't something else have been the cause.
But I do think that bacteria can do alot of good, and not only in bm, in the past I think most people consumed alot more of them than they do now - sourdough bread, real yoghurt, cultured butter, raw milk, sourkrout (?), grapes are treated to kill natural yeasts, I think I read somewhere grain is steralised too. And potatoes are treated, thats why you have seed potatoes and normal potatoes- so I guess that would kill the yeasts/bacterias on them too.
I think they are putting probiotics into formula now aren't they? I guess that is the benefit of these studies.
I've seen some other interesting studies too, showing the effect pre-natal nutrition has on obesity.
Plus there are those emails about msg fat rats :)
lol this forum needs a spell checker :lol:
I think you've made some good points about the friendly bacteria levels being higher in the past that it is today... and also with the much higher levels of sugar in our diets the little good bacteria we ARE getting in our diets is often killed off by the sugar-loving bad bacteria.