Aww thanks Kelly! I was pretty thrilled myself when I found it on the camera LOL. I totally forgot DH had taken it.
Aww thanks Kelly! I was pretty thrilled myself when I found it on the camera LOL. I totally forgot DH had taken it.
My first baby wouldn't go on the breast from day one - even after every midwife in the place came and had a go... by day three he needed to eat so I had to give him expressed breastmilk, then of course I had to keep giving him a bottle as he very quickly got used to the teat instead of my breast... it was AWFUL!:
Even going to the daystay on day 6 was a nightmare, the midwife couldn't get him on and at the end of the day sent me home saying offer breast every 3 - 4 hours... knowing he wasn't going on AT ALL... let me tell you, I should have put him on formula right then and there - I feel that midwife should have informed me about formula!!
After 2 weeks of expressing every single feed for him, I chose to go and buy one of those ugly tins... however lack of education meant that I didn't know which tin to choose! I have never seen an ad for formula and seeing all of the different types was way too much to bear, if I saw that it said ARTIFICIAL MILK, it would have been even more upsetting to me than it already was! I thought I would NEVER give a child milk in a tin.
Please remember that some mothers do want to breastfeed but simply cannot.
I think lack of education, but honestly all of the choices can be big contributing factors..
It was so sad a few months ago at my young mothers group, a girl was having issues with breast feeding, and instead of trying to listen to her and support her, because she seemed to desperately want to BF, the girls she were talking to were saying things like "I saw a show about breastfeeding that said that formula is actually more nourishing than breast milk, so there is no need for you to even bother with it". I have never really "fitted in" there so I didn't think it was my place to barge in.
I actually used to get stares from them when I was BF DS when he was 12 months old. I almost felt like a leper or something. Also the MCHN who would come to weigh our babies told me DS wasn't gaining enough weight for his age (then 11months) (he had just been ill and had also recently started crawling so I thought that was the reason. I explained it to her, but she didn't seem to think anything I was saying was valid.) and that I should drop his feeds and replace them with formula. I just felt like I as trying to do what I wanted to do for DS and was being discouraged by people.
But on the upside, when DS was a few weeks old and my nipples were cracked, bleeding and bruised, I was crying during every feed and wanting to give it all up. The support of my family and exs family helped me get through it. Plus my determination that no matter how hard it got (I was told it wouldn't be easy, DS & I both had to learn how to BF, after all) I would do what I personally believed to be the best option for both of us.
Kelly, I can't believe the number of mums I meet these days that are bottle feeding and tell me there milk dried up at 6wks, esp younger mums (17-25) I think the ABA needs to give out a pamphet that addresses this and put it in the bounty bag or something. In my experience it is usually the mothers and gradmothers who tell these mums that their milk dried up at the same time, don't wory dear not everyone can breastfeed, and now I can give the baby a bottle!
I voted for lack of support from family, friends etc. I was lucky in that I educated myself about breastfeeding and had a supportive husband. I also had two close friends (who unfortunately lived many hours away!) but were breastfeeding when I started to feed Marnie. I was often told that I didn't have enough milk or How did I know how much she was getting with each feed? I was also told that I wouldn't be able to continue if I returned to work - I did and introduced my work place to breastfeeding mother's rights.
Mothers of the past have a lot of influence on new mums and perhaps they are the ones who need the education? I currently have a friend now who breastfeeds but is too embaressed to breastfeed in public and expresses for each feed?????? This alarms me - where is the stigma coming from?
Carly, it has been mentioned quite a few times here in this thread that we are talking about the people who CAN BF but don't :) They're the ones whose reasons could give us clues as to where the education needs to start, be directed etc. This thread is not intended to make anyone feel inadequate, it's asking a valid question. We need to be able to talk about so that it becomes less of a mystery for mummies.
I know of a woman who tried BFing for less than a week and went to formula because 'it hurt' to BF... as if it's a walk in the park for the rest of us! She had her second baby and didn't think twice, just put her onto formula and EBM - won't bother with actual breastfeeding because 'it hurts too much'. Everyone dances around her so as not to cause offence, so when I realised one day that I'd turned up to a get together wearing my 'I make milk...what's your superpower?' t-shirt, I felt like a walking criticism. Why? Why can't I be proud of what I do for my son? Why can't I be proud about getting through 4 excruciating weeks of tongue-tie, oversupply, grazed and bleeding nipples, humungous boobs? I DID feel like a superpower. And I refuse to condescend to women who don't BF, for whatever reason (as in, I feel it would be patronising to FFeeders to consciously cut it out of my conversation or talk it down whilst feeding DS, as if they need to be protected from real life!). I'm not going to second-guess their reasons, it's up to them. But at the same time, I'm not going to shrink away from the fact that I've done this magical thing for my boy, out of some misplaced guilt that someone else couldn't. Geez, that's like pretending I don't have a son when I know I'm going to be talking to someone who is dealing with infertility or miscarriage...or someone who has lost a child of any age.
Sorry, that's a bit of a tangent, but it IS related. We seem to feel the need to downplay how great it is to breastfeed in order to be inoffensive. We need to get past that or there are women who will miss out on that anecdotal evidence, they won't have that in the backs of their minds when they are going through that initial attachment period and other people's success stories won't get them through that because they won't have heard many. They'll be hearing an apologetic 'but it's just as fine if you feed formula'. Cos it's not. Formula can be fed instead of BM where it is not possible to feed BM, but it will never be anywhere near LIKE BM, and no amount of apologising is going to erase that fact.
That's what I mean about a rock and a hard place. Exalt Bfing and dump the guilts on FF mummies :rolleyes:
Timing!
We have just gotten home from Antenatal Class number 3 of 4...all about breastfeeding!
The Family Birthing Centre at the Mercy in Melbourne encourages breastfeeding, we had a thorough Q&A followed by a detailed video.
I voted for lack of support/returning to work... cost of living, taking us away from our children...but I would also say that what we are used to seeing we get used to the idea of...and with this overwhelming consumer society we live in, with all the marketing and advertising, why wouldnt women accept formula as a normal way of feeing our children? They claim to be equal to if not better suited than breastmilk... so does this also come under misleading or inadequate information? Are we able to trust Australian Standards of Practice and Advertising to deliver us good, healthy products?
I question this when some ads tell us that sugar coated chocolate breakfast cereals are good for us...ya know?
All the very best for addressing this topic.
I look forward to hearing the outcome.
Wow! This really touches a nerve.....
I had to say education firstly.....if I knew then what I know now, I would have definitely stuck it out! Nobody told me that c-sections can delay your milk coming in.....I didn't know it can take up to 6 weeks to get successfully established.....no-one I knew was b/f so didn't have anyone to ask about it beforehand.....DD was born on a Sunday and I stuck it out 'til Friday then packed it in. Hubby was supportive of me either way, didn't try to influence me. I had the L/C in to visit, midwives trying to help, pumping away merrily......
Having said that, the nurses in my ward had a policy of not showing you how to make up bottles if you were trying to get b/f established. It was only after I made my final decision that they took me along and showed me what I needed to do, so didn't feel any pressure from that angle.
With a bit of experience behind me, and a WEALTH of knowledge now, I'm definitely going to give it a go if I'm lucky enough again.....
As for "artificial milk"? If it wasn't available, there sure would be some hungry babies and suicidal mummies around......not everyone gives up because it's "easier'.
actually, my answer wasn't one of the options.
so i voted for Intervention at birth cos that my 2nd reason. I think when babies are whisked away from the mum to the nursery, a vital bonding and feeding opportunity are lost. When a mother has just had an epidural and all the other things you get put in your system for a c-section, well all that stuff interferes with you being able to feed your bub (if you are even awake). Colostrum can't be undervalued, it IS gold.
OK, my #1 reason for b/f-ing not happening more?
Acceptance in the community.
When i go out in public places, i don't feel like i have somewhere comfy to breastfeed, i don't feel welcome in that way.
Public changerooms might have an old armchair if you are lucky, and they are situated near the sanitary boxes of used "full" disposable nappies, the smell makes me gag and i don't want to be feeding my child near human faeces. So i don't b/f in the parents room. Where else? The shopping centres have wooden benches in the middles of the walkways. So somewhere to feed, very public and absolutely no back support. I feel like a drink while i feed so i find a cafe. The trend is to have hard wooden dining chairs, no arm rests to help me feed my baby.
But the mum who hands her baby's bottle over to heat up in the cafe's microwave, that seems to be much more socially acceptable.
i am going to breastfeed my baby IN SPITE of feeling unwelcome wherever i go in public when i want to feed my bub. I think of the long term health benefits for my baby. Only last year, it became law in my state, that a woman could feed in a eating establishment. Up until last year, it wasn't law. It was up to the discretion of the individual restarant or cafe owner. if a customer complained, you would be asked to leave.
You get told how good it is for the baby, but i didn't realise i would feel "punished" by society for actually carrying out this good thing for my baby. Pressured to put baby on solids so early. My bub is six months old, not showing any signs of wanting solids, yet people around me can't stop talking about the solids.
The fact i have an extrememly healthy bub who hasn't had gastro, a cold or anything like that in six months - does that not count???
It was not easy to start breastfeeding, i endured alot of pain at first. It sure wasn't natural for me, glad i perservered but god it was hard.
being without my car for the first six months of my bub's life has been hard, can't get to ABA support meetings. I need that support to feel good about my choice.
i find this a bit of a contradiction...:
i don't really feel the cost of living is taking us from our children- we can choose whether we are going to put them in daycare and continue with the standard of living we had before we had children- or we can choose to downsize a little and look after them ourselves.
the only thing we have gotten too used to seeing is women returning to the workforce while they still have small children rather staying at home with them and choosing a simpler lifestyle... the overwhelming consumer society we live in promotes a working mother and father and the children miss out on much more then breastmilk.... we are choosing to accept alot worse things then formula as the normal way of feeding our children- we are accepting daycare workers to care and norish our little ones while we are away playing the socially acceptable 'working mother' role.
breastfeeding friendly workplaces are definatly a good thing- however the lack of them is not a problem- the fact that mum's are back in workplaces when they have children young enough to be breastfeeding is... i strongly feel this is a social (and possibly greed) problem, not a workplace one.
Definately for me anyway, it was the conflicting advice. Whilst I was in hospital it seemed like every shift change would bring a new way of doing it 'properly' and a throw out of the method I had just been trying.
Also, a lot of the midwives I met through my struggles with breastfeeding were rude, uncaring, intimidating and abrupt and in the end I thought 'stuff it, I'm not battling with them any more...I just can't do this' and gave up.
I'm all for breastfeeding and I can understand where they're coming from (the midwives), but they need to be reminded that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Edited to add...No one, not even my friends, told me that it was going to be excrutiangly painful to begin with!
This, to me, was the world's best kept secret!
See, I along with this other poor mum didn't know this and not once while I was in hospital did ANY health care professional ever say to me that it is going to hurt.:
I remember sitting on the chair, toes curled, neck all tense, nipples bleeding, crying my eyes out...I started to resent my baby and absolutely dread feeds.
Maybe the fact that some people are so judgemental stops people like me and this particular lady from seeking advice/help and persevering with it.
MamaDuke, that is my point exactly - it is unrealistic to say that BFing shouldn't hurt, when in fact it CAN hurt initially! The first time round, for the lady I'm talking about, I can sort of understand where she's coming from. Second time round there isn't much excuse - she is surrounded by BFers and her SIL who had a baby that same year as her the first time continued to BF for 2 and a half years. SIL also had initial attachment issues...for about 6 weeks. There ARE some people who take the 'easy' option (I would only say this if I had heard women say it themselves, which I have), and there are those who believe that they are having undue problems because no-one has told them that it can be hard and it can hurt.
This lady doesn't want help, she does believe that formula is as good as human milk - she has fallen for the spiel from the formula company reps (as she was in the pharmacy industry).
Not wanting to talk about specific people, though - I brought it up because I believe it is symptomatic.
If I can expand a little on the education thing - because I would like to know exactly - what would you like to see in terms of education? Because I know as a first time mother, when I was pregnant, I missed going to the breastfeeding session and wasn't phased by it because I thought I would be able to manage without it and it would be easy. How do you get through to people like that? I think the parenting and breastfeeding side of things becomes more interesting AFTER you have had the baby for many people, so what would you all suggest given this scenario?
My thoughts re breastfeeding education question -
Maybe a booklet handed to women giving birth which covers benefits of breastfeeding and ways to overcome typical difficulties, and it would be particularly useful to be given relevant web addresses, ABA contact information - including after hours number, etc.
It helps if the hospital you book in with is "baby-friendly" pro-breastfeeding, because you know that your efforts will be supported and rewarded. My hospital encourages mums to enrol in a breastfeeding class and I found the class wonderful but would have liked a booklet to take away also.
Even though I've breastfed two bubs, I'm eager to have a chance to do the breastfeeding class before I have my third baby as I think refreshers are important too. I think mums who are onto their 2nd/3rd/4th or whatever should be encouraged and praised for breastfeeding too as it seems there is a high BF dropout rate once you've had more than one.
Also, making BF resources more visible for knew mums. I remember asking a MCHN, after having my firstborn, how I could link with a local ABA group. I couldn't find ANY information on the health centre noticeboards and she couldn't even find a brochure for me. I was surprised because I know when my mum was breastfeeding the Nursing Mothers' was well-known and accessible to families.
I really think the lack of education on all fronts could be addressed firstly by advertising. We all see those full page glossy adverts saying if we don't feed our child sugary toddler milks they will be anemic have poor immune systems and lack intellegence.
Mayeb a TV ad campaign with celebrities and other mums (Bec cartwright springs to mind) saying that yes it is hard and it can hurt but it is worth it and here is ABA they can help. As well as magazine advertising (not articles because we already get those and lets face it are lot are very contradictory and lack any real info-and many don' t mention ABA!). But it needs to come from the government not ABA (just have ABA as a part of it) so people see this as something the government is trying to improve.
Health professionals need to be educated, most are not, the BF rates among Drs and their wives are equal to the rest of society so they are coming up against the same barriers normal women are. Having health professionals that come into contact with pregnant or lactating women being required to hold accreditation in lactation is a must.
Int he past few years the UK has taken a big stance in trying to increas the BF rate. The problem is everyone is pushing BF BF BF but there is no skill and support to back them up so babies are being hospitalised right left and centre. So the professionals need to be educated and then society needs to be educated.
I talk about BF at my local hospital antenatal classes. I can tell them until I'm blue in the face that BF is not easy that ABA can help if you have a problem or a q's but I cannot make them BF, I can not overcome when our local Dr tells women with mastitis to quit, I can't undo the harm that their mothers or their sisters who didn't BF do by suggesting the mothers milk is no good. I give the phone numbers, information I include the dads (they have their own handout with things they can do) because a mother is 10 times more likely to BF if her partner supports her, but it doens't help when those closest to her or the so called professionals say something else then what I have told her.
Sorry blabbered a bit there so education needs to be for health professionals (who can then pass this onto mothers and support her after birth) and then for society (so mothers can BF at work, Bf in public, BF until 2 as WHO states etc etc- and not feel discriminated against in any way).
I think as soon as you book into any hospital you should be contacted by the ABA (govt funded) and receive an ABA membership, the ABA can advise you on local meetings in your area and suggest going along so that you can learn about breastfeeding BEFORE you have the baby. There should also be more BF'ing information in the antenatal classes. I think it would be really helpful for women to go along to ABA meetings when pregnant because often women don't go till either after having bubs or after they start having difficulties. Support should start BEFORE bubs is here. Maybe even have an fully qualified LC that discusses breastfeeding as part of hosptial visits? Not to mention education starting in schools way before people are even thinking about having babies. And also for boys too, so that when and if they become dads they know how to support their wives.
I dunno just a few thoughts.
*hugs*
Cailin
I think that one problem is that you are chucked out of the hospital in many cases before your milk comes in. The private hospital I delivered in had a "5 day stay", but DD was born at 9:10pm and I didn't get up to the ward until 11:30 - and that was counted as day one, and you leave at 11 am on day 5. My milk had only just started then. I managed to BF successfully for 7 months (until DD refused) but I think it was just luck and persistance on my part...
YES gigi! that gets my vote too:
OK, my #1 reason for b/f-ing not happening more?
Acceptance in the community.
When i go out in public places, i don't feel like i have somewhere comfy to breastfeed, i don't feel welcome in that way.
Completely agree. Sadly mums and sisters are the WORST for this. My mum even now suggests that Tallon has a cold because my milk isn't nutritious anymore. Argh! Say that to someone who is tired and emotional, and well, any confidence they had left is flushed right down the toilet.:
I 'think' I've got through to my mum a bit with regards to her only feeding for 3 months. She DID dry up, but she understands now it was because she wsa taught not to feed for more than 10 minutes per side, and scheduled the feeds. So she gets the whole demand feed thing now.
I think with regards to education campaigns... gosh, they could do a whole SERIES on busting breastfeeding myths. Tell people what NOT to listen to. I learnt what not to listen to from all the lovely ladies here on BB, from the ABA class, and from the ABA website. (as a result I've ignored LC's, midwives, MCHN's, GP, and mum! LOL - but hey.. we're still feeding!!) I've been fortunate that I haven't had a need for direct contact with the ABA since, but I wouldn't hesitate if I needed them. Women need confidence that they DO know what they're doing, so they can ignore all these silly comments about the milk not being good enough, and that they're starving their baby.
OMG I totally forgot about the toe curling pain in the first weeks..but still its a little price to pay for knowing that your child is recieving the best you can give.
Danni and Gigi - I remember Jed took me out for brunchs shortly after having Vy at a top notch place here in Shepparton and I BF Vy with many of the women just google eyeing me. It made me feel uncomfortable and a bit embarrassed until one lady came over and said it was a beautiful sight to see a mother bfing. She put me on a high all day.
Kelly - bet you didnt expect this can of worms PMSL
I picked conflicting advice.
It seems everyone thinks they have the right to tell a new mum what she should be doing. In my experience Brianna was FF pretty much from day one, I tried to BF but due to an operation (breast reduction) a couple of years earlier my milk ducts had been damaged so I couldn't supply any milk to my DD. (although the milk did come in there was no way out).
Brianna was a natural, she attatched & sucked quite quickly but I knew something wasn't right, the midwives kept giving her formula "top ups" & hadn't taken the time to help me see if any milk was coming out... being a first timer I didnt know how to check etc.
I will be trying to BF again with my next baby as this is what I want to do but if I cant again then so be it, (this time I will definatley be asking more questions & making the midwives do the job their there to do...help the new mums) DD is a very happy & healthy 2 year old & thats all that matters to me...
When I was pregnant I bought 3 breastfeeding tops and EVENTUALLY found the breastpads at my local coles for my hospital bag... I was given 2 bottles at my babyshower.
In my mind babies were breastfed unless there was something wrong with my milk.
I HAD no idea so many people had so many problems... but now I think about it... I had not seen alot of babies being fed.
There are so many new babies in the world but we never see them being fed...
WHY DO WE HIDE WHEN WE FEED OUR BABIES???
How are we going to learn if we never see it?
Someone posted that breastfeeding should be in your face while you are watching neighbours i totally agree... then everyone is watching it and it will be NORMAL
At the moment it feels that I am some kind of hero in my circle of friends because i am "still" breastfeeding. some have had cracked nipples and 'couldnt' express 'enough' so 'had' to go to formula, one is so shy had problems and didnt tell anyone almost starved her baby and then after shutting herself away from world to express put bub on formula and thats that, one just thought breastfeeding was weird, wanted to go back to work after 2 weeks and doesnt like getting up at night so formula is 'easier'.
i think more help needs to be available after we get home from hospital, and for it to be a topic that is not a taboo one.... something we can talk about openly if we have a problem.
no one encourages anyone to smoke but everyone is there to help you quit....
no one encourages you to keep breastfeeding because there is nothing wrong with formula.....
:
I think you said this perfectly Cailin, why not have it as a normal part of pg, I especially like your sugesstion of having a LC that discusses breastfeeding as part of your regular hospital visits,
I am going through an OB for this baby but I still have a couple of visits with a midwife so why not a visit especially for an LC that way it would be a regualr check up and incorperate BF too I think that is a fantastic idea and I hope that one day they do that, that will most certainly bring education up on BF.
I think advertising is also important, BF is not considered by general public as the normal thing to do, its supposed to be hiden in a closet or a room wayyyyy down a hall in the shopping centre, people are getting offended and making horrible awful remarks to the women who do BF and I think that this needs to stop, if BF was considered the normal thing by society and not a little secret you do behind closed doors then I feel more women would be comfortable feeding in public, I know when BF my DS I would never go out unless I knew he would not want a feed and even then I would only leave the house for a very short time.
IK I am guilty of stopping BF with my DD because it hurt to much, and I think it was because of lack of education as I did not know it was going to be like that, even after BF my DS for 2 months ( I stopped for different reasons ) I still thought it must have been 'me' and something I was doing and it probably was I dont think she was attaching properly, I just wanted to say that it broke my heart to stop with in the first week with her, and I had many abusive phone calls to make sure I didnt forget the horrible thing I was doing to my newborn child, it was not an easy decission for me, but in my case I felt it was better to stop becasue of the resentment I was feeling toward my baby girl, I so understand what you are saying and yes I think that some people do turn to formular to early but I think it really depends on the circumstances and reasons behind it, and again education is the key here in most cases, if I had felt that i was not taking up precious time and that I was in the way I may have asked for more help, and I think what Cailin said is spot on :D
ETA: I will be giving it my absolute best effort this time, I wont give up unless there is a medical reason of course, but you see having BB as a place of support and referance I am now more educated htan before I had the attitude that breast milk and formular were much the muchness and felt no need to force the issue with myself but now i do know and again its an education thing for me, I have learnt so much in the past couple of years, and i am really excited this time about giving it my all.
First of all, thank you for doing this Kelly - I am not quite sure where you get the time or energy for all that you do!!
I have to agree with so many of the posts - there are a lot of options to choose from - and I would have to say that many of them are contributing factors to women not pursuing breastfeeding when times get tough.
I have had three children and with my two eldest (who are now teenagers) everything came pretty easy - with the exception of cracked nipples (which paw paw cream is great for) and mastitis! If I didnt have the positive experiences with the first two - I might have given up with my third who is now 8 months old and still feeding strongly (in fact it is a little bit of a battle to get him to eat solids). First of all I totally forgot about day 2!!! That was one of the longest days of my life - my little one was feeding constantly and he was obviously in pain - I knew that I only had colostrum at that point - but I started to feel that something was wrong - thank God I had a midwife who came in and told me all was normal. I believe in demand breastfeeding - so when Addison was feeding every 2 hours I felt that I might not have enough milk. My insecurities were not helped by the health professionals - but rather they were made worse - with conflicting advice and some who were just rude! Handling my breasts like they were not a part of my body - but just some object. In the end I closed my door (I gave birth within a hospital) and told everyone to leave me alone. I fed Addison lying down - rather than in the position I was told I must feed him in - and as I relaxed and rested - he relaxed and fed. I had one midwife come in and tell me I was a "clever girl" for feeding him while laying down and another telling me to get up - I told her (in a nice way) to get out.:)
The only advice I can give to women who are struggling is to trust in their bodies and to expect that there will be hurdles to overcome - but it is worth it. Breastfeeding is one of the experiences in my life that I have treasured almost every moment of. Even in the middle of the night when I am totally exhausted :)
Here is my submission as it still isn't yet online, there seems to be much backlog. As I mentioned it was rushed but I just wanted to get something in, so it isn't my most well-edited piece!
Really quick - before I forget - as my brain is prone to do so often. Reading various posts a question has been posted as to why some women are choosing not to feed outright. When I conducted research into childbirth - breastfeeding obviously came up - but it was not central to my research. What I found was the women who chose not to feed did so for one of two reasons. First of all, was aesthetic purposes (they didnt want their breasts to sag). Second, they did not feel comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding - these particular women had a real divide between mind and body if you know what I mean. I think part of this comes from the many images and discourses out there of the faulty body of the woman. So many women just do not feel confidence in their bodies! (I am speaking here about women who choose whilst they are pregnant that they will not breast feed their babies)
I dont think a booklet would help... how many booklets and leaflets did you get when you first had baby? or got pregnant... it is overwealming and goes in a bag until baby is 6 weeks old and you have a chance to take a breath... by this time if you were going to "give up" breast feeding it would have happened by now.
In your face on telly..... get rid of all the freakin knife ads and put something on tv when the new mums are up feeding or trying to feed???
at home education.... a visit from a nurse no matter what week two when maybe it is 'not too late' to help
I picked Lack of education,figuring that could cover all bases when it comes to breastfeeding and the promotion of it.
I was lucky enough to have a fantastic experience with breastfeeding my daughter(not without it's ups and downs of course)and was glad she was a self-weaner at 19months old because i wasn't exactly sure how i was going to stop breastfeeding.
I am a larger women,so of course,having larger breasts made it a challenge to begin with,until i figured out a rolled up towel under the boobs made for great support and allowed our daughter to feed more comfortably.
A shame the nurses felt free to voice their personal comments about a 'fat chick' trying to feed her baby,all along with trying various positions to put my daughter and boobs in.
Already feeling bad enough after having an emergency c-section and a newborn(and 1st baby)to look after,everything aching,boobs so sensitive(and extremely sore when milk come in 3 days after the birth)..did they really wonder why i just burst out crying and said don't worry about it,i'll figure it out myself.
Which we did,just my daughter and i..and from then on,was nothing but a pleasure to be able to breastfeed successfully for her first 19 months.
They(some of the nurses)were just as horrible and nasty to the new mum in the bed next to mine.
Not that anyone should ever have to explain themselves,but before she got pregnant,she had suffered from breast cancer(and recovered)and was told that she would probably never have kids due to all the treatment etc.
Miracles,she did fall pregnant with her daughter,but because of the breast cancer and surgery etc her only option was to bottlefed.
Of course,bottlefeeding was a crime punishable by death to the nurses,and not taking the time to find out why she couldn't and didnt want to breastfed,didnt help her with bottlefeeding her baby..who i guess was probably near starving..till about 2 days after the birth.
I think one of her boobs was producing milk a little bit,so at least the baby had a little something,but to be so horrible and nasty and force the women in near tears to tell her story again about the breast cancer before they 'caved in' and helped her with the bottlefeeding and formula..just cant be right either.
Non matter if it's your 1st baby or 10th,each birth still has to be a 'shock' to the system,and a time when you can hardly think straight,and basically,just at your worst,no matter how joyous you are at finally having your baby.
All support and help should be given,no matter what your choice is.
At the end of the day,as long as each and every baby is happy and healthy,that's what matters.
I also feel that breastfeeding should be promoted just the same as formulas are.
There still seems to be this stigma of boobs only being needed for sexual pleasure(or objects)when their real primary function is to be able to breastfeed any children we have.
Once society can look at a mum breastfeeding out in public without staring and having nasty hurtful comments thrown at her,or for a guy to walk into a parents room where a mum is feeding her baby in private and grope her breasts..then we might be getting somewhere..
Now with #2 on the way,i once again cant wait to be able to breastfeed!!
All from a 70's premmie baby who was bottlefed.
Perhaps teaching and letting mums know to trust in their instincts when it comes in looking after their babies would help too.
I had never held a baby until i held my daughter,had nothing to do with other babies or kids when growing up,and had only ever mostly seen babies being bottlefed when out and about..i think it was a great surprise,and so rewarding to realise that i could actually breastfeed successfully,and i can only hope that the skill will be passed onto my daughter,and that my son in the future will support his wife in breastfeeding
I think the more kids/people exposed to mother breastfeeding their kids where ever and when ever can only be a good thing..cause once it's seen as 'normal'(which it is of course..)and routine..sooner or later,there has to come a time where nobody will even blink and eyelid at seeing mothers breastfeed..the same as if a baby is being bottlefed.
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Brilliant submission Kelly.
I was fortunate enough to attend the hearing the committee had in Cairns. It was very informative (both good and bad in some ways) and all the members of the public got to say their 2 cents worth at the end. At that time the committee had received over 350 submissions and despite the feb 28th Deadline they were still accepting submissions. they admitted that when they started this inquiry they beleived it would be quick easy and over in 6 mths, they expected about 100 submissions. hehehe they got a big shock I think!!! I was lucky I was able to get mine in early and has been up for a while now. I'm still trying to read through the rest-I'm up to 277.
Oh and completely agree with Cailin.
In Innisfail a breastfeeding counsellor started a program where she talked with all expectant mothers about BF-after a while no more funding so it had to be stopped. Some refused to see her, some came to groups and some rang when they needed help. What has been a bigger success has been the Breastfeeding Education Classes where people pay $70 and get a membership, a book and undertake a class (about 1/2 day I think) learning about BF. This should be something the government can do. Make private health funds pay for their members to do this course, fund low income and at risk groups to do the course and for everyone else make it a tax deduction if they do it.
With Gemma is was lack of support from health professionals who told me it should come naturally and had me sobbing one night.
With jasmine she had problems sucking and latching on so lack of support again to help me with teaching Jasmine how to latch on properly. The Midwive tried to help me but after a couple of hours on and off of Jasmine crying she told me to just ff.
I love the suggestion of all mothers being given a free 12 month subscription to ABA!
I have had to go to the FMAU a couple of times already(and have to go again tomorrow!)
FMAU=Fetal Monitoring Assessment Unit. Over 4 hours they take your blood pressure average,take some blood and get out on the baby monitor for their heartbeat/movements just to make sure everything is AOK
Anyhow,the ABA is offering a breastfeeding class over a weekend for 1st time mums(well,i guess any mum really)to learn about breastfeeding,what to expect etc..all for $95!
Of course that includes a years membership.
That's all fine and well,anything to promote and help out with mums breastfeeding is only a great thing..but to be 'suckered in' to paying for something that somes free and naturally..i dont know..kinda runs me the wrong way.
I think ABA should give(or offer)a years membership to all mums(no matter what number child)for free,then only if you decide to stay for longer then that year do you pay a membership fee(im sure they need financial help too to keep things going)
We,as Australians can get most medical things(and especially when having a baby)for free on Medicare..so why not also have membership to ABA on Medicare too if a mother chooses too?
Sounds great to me!
Clearbrite that was a very moving post, I sat here with my mouth open imagining the nurses treating you and this other poor women that way how appauling.
I am a big breasted women too and I found that to make it even harder for me as my breast was bigger than my babies head, and yes having the roled towel helped so so much.
Alphia I think you touched on something very important about the main rasons as to why some women choose not to breast feed, I wanted to feed but it felt 'wrong' to me and I didnt like doing it at all, and what you said about women not accepting thier bodies in that way is very true, I think at the time I was feeling that breasts were infact sexual and I was confused about what I was doing and was it the 'right' thing for me to be doing, I have matured alot over the past 6 years and feel more at peace with my body and its real functions and I now trust in my body too, and I also agree that I think this is because people dont see breast feeding as important as it actually is, I think its very important that we start to make the public aware that breast feeding is very natural more so than formular feeding, so that we as women can feel comfortable, and not judged, I have heard so many women here on BB over the time I have been here saying how someone said this or they were asked to keave a restraunt etc I think that is utterly appauling and that just makes it more about breasts being sexual when it has nothing to do with sex at all, and that is a lack of understnding and education of the people around us.
Clearbrite, the ABA is a not for profit organisation that runs off its subscriptions and donations and every once in a while, a government grant. It needs to be a government initiative to fund free memberships for the first year. Until then, it is the perfect baby shower gift. If the ABA were to become a government body it would be compromised and lose its independence. All that wonderful research would have a government agenda.
I Breastfed for 10 months and my milk supply got so low that I couldn't keep going.
I saw a few different lactation consultants and whilst they were all very lovely and full of advise they were sooooo pro breastfeeding that they didn't think about how I felt.
Until I meet Diane, she too was a pro breastfeeding advocate (and lactation consultant) but one of the first things she said to me was: don't worry darling if we can't get you feeling like your getting somewhere today we swap to the bottle and you're bub will be fine and you'll be happy and much less stressed.
This happend when my Daughter was about 10 days old. If it wasn't for her considering my feelings, I think I would have been too stressed to continue trying. But luckily for my beautiful Daughter this made all the difference. I was able to relax a little more and things started to get better.
Sometimes the "Probreast" (don't get me wrong, I'm "probreast") consultants would have a lot more success keeping people trying if they relaxed the message a little.
Regards,
Mum of Charlotte and one on the way (I hope to breastfed again. Maybe even longer this time)
Kelly,
I guess more info antenatally - given out - I guess this is where the govt can come in, producing some quality info/pamphlet detailing the benefits for mothers and babies both short benefits and long-term ones.
I agree pamphlets hae severe limitations, but also wonder if the govt will balk at TV campaigns - as they basically need to run ad infinitum to 'catch' the target audience.
The idea of educating kids as part of sex ed programs at school is a good one. I presently would love to take my baby to my son's (Grade 2) class for 'show and tell' and actually breastfeed her there, but I seriously doubt I'd be allowed, and if I was I KNOW the school and I would get complaints from other parents.
But I am skeptical about all of this education, because unless the health professionals themselves are highly motivated in their own right to increase the bf-ing rates of their clientele, the info will never be backed up with that all-important support and solution-driven advice from OBs, midwives, paeds, GPs, MCHNs & LCs.
Jo - mother of three (currently in my 58th month of breastfeeding)
I replied to the 1st email so kelly will c this twice.
I think the biggest problem is public attitude. I got comments about indecent exposure to which I replied that breastfeeding is legal. I think there needs to be advertising advising especially older males about the fact that breastfeeding is exempt from the indecent exposure laws. I found the support from medical professionals was heaps and it was only after I got out of hospital that I got abused for feeding my baby.
Just some random thoughts on the education aspect you mentioned Kelly.
*There needs to be a uniform, centralised means of advising pregnant women of the resources available to them if they run into problems breastfeeding. This should be as far as it goes with pregnant women because for the most part everyone thinks they won't have problems and everything will be fine for them - so it all goes in one ear and out the other anyway (a bit like the c/section information at antenatal classes). Women should not be scratching around the phonebook with a screaming baby that hasn't slept for two days trying to find where "Lactation Consultant" is listed in the yellow pages as I had to :rolleyes:
*The ABA needs to get more realistic with it's education. It needs to acknowledge to women that while breastfeeding is a natural function, it's almost never easy at first. They need to acknowledge that sometimes it hurts like hell. That sometimes you will go days without sleep because the baby won't take a bottle of ebm so no one else can feed him. They need to acknowledge that while in a perfect world mum's could feed without discrimination in public, every breastfeeding mother can tell you a horror story of at least one thing that's happened to her when she DARED to get her boob out at the local shopping centre. I could go on here but you know what I mean. Let's talk about the realities and how to cope with them, rather that fluffing on about how "wonderful" breastfeeding is. Yes it is wonderful, but for many mums it is not at first and no wonder they feel ripped off, or like there must be something wrong when all they hear is this fluffy b/s from the only support organisation that they can access for free.
I think the ABA does good work for the most part but in all my dealings with them I felt they really minimised my issues by talking to me in terms like I've described above.
*When we talk about breast milk being the best thing for baby, we imply the artificial milk is the norm and breastmilk is "a step up from that". This makes artificial milk a more palatable substitute. When we really look at it, breastmilk is the norm, which makes anything less than that a poorer substitute. I think there really needs to be more of a focus on the "human milk for human babies" aspect, that shows that breastmilk is the NORMAL thing to be feeding babies, not that it's some holy grail that only some women can produce in satisfactory quality and quantity. The language needs to change, they're coming at this the wrong way I think.
I was thinking about this last night, about how lack of education is such a key factor, and what sort of things it would help to educate people about. Certainly I believe all health professionals need further education in the benefits and difficulties of breastfeeding, but in terms of educating the general public, and in particular girls/women of childbearing age/expectant mums, the following are the things that in my experience and those of my friends that would really help:
- How great the benefits are, that it's not just immunity that bf bubs get, but also thinks like better eyesight, jaw development, lower rates of leukemia etc
- How the benefits can really affect you in day to day life - eg in 12 months times when your child is around other children at day care, playgroup etc, how wonderful it is that they rarely get the bugs that so many of the other kids get regularly - my son is over 2, has been attending day care since 7 months and has never had an ear infection or gastro, despite being exposed lots of times
- That initial attachement can be, and often is, difficult for a variety of reasons - large breasts, tired bub, flat nipples, tongue-tie etc etc etc. How this does get much easier over time as the bub gets bigger and more experienced, and some ways of dealing with it - different holds, bfing pillows, nipple shields etc etc, also that resources like lc and ABA are out there and can make a huge difference.
- That most of us worry about not having enough milk, even when we actually have too much. That we should trust our bodies more, that frequent sucking causes more milk production and that inability to produce enough milk is actually very uncommon. That the growth charts in the health books are based on ff bubs. And that supplementing with formula can hinder instead of help, as it affects the supply/demand cycle. Again that the ABA and lc are available for help
THere are many other things, but I think those are the things that would be most helpful to most people. Also the ABA 24 hour help line should be more widely publicised. In the QLD health book it simply says "ABA" not what it is for etc.
Kelly - I'm more than happy for you to use anything I said here; good on you for presenting to Parliament, sounds fantastic, can you let us know how it goes?
A key thing to me personally that I would want to reiterate is that its important for nurses and others involved in the week after birth to layer on the positive reinforcement, helping mums feel proud of their breastfeeding accomplishments. I felt even a tiny amount of criticism of breastfeeding success in the first week could be detrimental as you are so exhausted and emotionally vulnerable that it makes you feel like a failure to be told you're not doing it right.