BFing Troubles (AGAIN!) - Give Me Some Reassurance That 3 Weeks Is Not Too Late

Sounds like you may have a more relaxed way to go forward. Nothing wrong with just putting her to the breast whenever you would like. Chances are now she's a bit bigger she finds suckling easier and her mouth is a better fit. GL!

Thanks guys - I think I'll just see how we go at attachment for the next few days. If it's as easy as it seems to be at the moment (although she's only attaching and sucking not actually feeding because there's not much milk there obviously) then I will give the LC a call and go get some motilium. Whole different ball game if attachment is manageable and I'm not trying to wrestle a small mouth on to a big nipple. Much less stressful. Have already tried three times today already when before I'd have to seriously psych myself up before each attempt.

Am I the only one gobsmacked that I still have milk five weeks after last BF attempt and having not expressed a drop since either? And that DD would go on also after five weeks with no BFs?

Sounds like a good plan Fiona :) Sounds like you are so much more relaxed about it all, which is fantastic!

Babies are born to breastfeed - that doesn't mean that it works out perfectly early on, but it is what they are designed to do. I totally understand that it's gobsmacking for you, but it really is normal :)

Fiona, maybe you can try a supply line as well? That way she is getting all she needs from the formula while you are building your supply, but she is getting it at the breast which will help with her latch and also stimulate the breast without having to use a pump.

Fiona, I stopped bfing six months ago after four years and I still get something out of my RHS. And that was down to one bf a day for almost a year. I can't get much, but a little. So I'm not that gobsmacked about five weeks. ;) But I still think it's amazing what our bodies can do!

I'll look into supply lines but my first thought is it sounds fiddly and with a toddler running around, I'm keen to avoid anything fiddly (and that DD1 can rip off).

I guess I'm surprised at the attachment/still having milk five weeks on because I've always got the impression from midwives that you have to go hell for leather and try, try, try each breastfeed otherwise your milk will dry up and if the baby has bottles, they will lose the instinct. I think the try, try, try approach was in my case detrimental, not helpful, to BF success and if it turns out that having a break and trying when I feel comfortable works then I don't know why that option was not presented to me earlier and I had to find it myself. I recognise that this is very, very early days and I may end up giving up again depending on my mental state and how well we're doing.

It is often presented as a black & white, either/or option. Same with mothers who feel they have to go full formula if they can't get a full breastmilk supply for whatever reason.
Anyway, good luck with it all

Well, my softly softly approach is leaving me quite encouraged. I've been trying at attachment basically when I feel like it for the last few days and it seems a hell of a lot easier, Sadly, I got my period which I guess shows that the BF hormones have dwindled a lot but I think they stick around for up to 3 months (DD is nine weeks).

Anyhow, the real reason for the pop-in is to see whether an ob can prescribe motilium? I'm off to the ob tomorrow so could potentially get some then and see how we go. I don't know any doctors in the town we just moved to so would prefer to get it from my ob if possible.

Maybe ring your ob before you go and ask?

It sounds like you're getting somewhere with bfing, well done! I got AF back after a couple of months despite bfing exclusively. My ob told me that since my DD wasn't bfing overnight it was probable it wasn't effective at preventing my cycle from returning. Pretty much from birth I had 5-6 hour bfing gaps during the night. AF never seemed to bother my DD's bfing.

Keep us updated - it's great to hear how calm you are and how much better things are going.

Sounds like going with the flow is working well for you :) Good on you! Yes, your Ob can prescribe Motilium. Be prepared though (and this is not a downer on Obs, I have one and love him to bits ;)), he may not be keen, and talk to you about how you've given it your best shot, it didn't work out blahdy blah blah, why resort to medication now etc etc. Of course, he may not, I don't know your Ob ;), but many are misinformed about breastfeeding, and don't prioritise it. My Ob gave me a script initially, no dramas, probably because I had a prem. But he was reluctant to give me a repeat, although he did in the end. I now buy it from a website that doesn't require a prescription, it's cheaper that way too.

Good luck! As a PP has said, unfortunately breastfeeding is presented as an 'all or nothing' deal, which is definitely not the case. Yeah, exclusive breastfeeding is known to be best for baby, but for those who cannot achieve that (myself included) doing both is definitely workable. Feel free to ask any questions that spring to mind.

Thanks so much ladies - particularly for the reassurance re AF. I don't want to get you all too excited - I don't think she's getting anything out but seeing as our problem was always attachment and now that seems to be working, I'm much more encouraged that if I can get any sort of supply that we can give it a decent shot. Without being able to attach, that was obviously impossible.

I'm also hesitant to see a LC again as the try every x hours, express, do this, do that in an effort to get fast results just doesn't work for me, it ends up with me stressed out and feeling like a failure if something doesn't work. My LC was lovely but it's hard to tell someone that y'know, I don't want to do that because it sounds like I'm being lazy which I'm not, it just doesn't work for me.

That's totally understandable Fiona, and it sounds as though you are well informed about how to go about this. You can always continue going the way you are, but if you feel you need extra help, you know where your LC is.

I'm excited because I know this is something you wanted to do, breastfeed your baby. Just out of interest, how long is she sucking for when she attaches? I totally get that expressing/feeding lots isn't going to work for you right now, but another thing that will help is skin to skin cuddles. Heck, lots of any sort of cuddles will help! It gets that oxytocin flowing, which is so important in breastfeeding. Motilium helps increase prolactin levels, the other important hormone, so between the two you're starting off well :) I don't know if it's possible for you with your pelvis, but baby wearing is a good way of helping to increase supply, as is cosleeping.

Good luck with the Ob :)

The other thing I forgot to mention is that since I got AF I now can't get any drops out when I hand express but if motilium can get any sort of supply going then I'm optimistic that we're in with a chance as my supply was always fantastic, it's just that we couldn't attach eg. I was getting 100ml+ in the first couple of weeks even without DD really breastfeeding very much, that was just with expressing.

Janie - thank you :) She attaches for probably around 10 mins, sometimes more, sometimes less. However, I have also been using a dummy in the last 10 days or so which is not brilliant but was the only way I could settle her at the time (she was waking every 40 mins and rocking, patting etc. didn't work for her and she was miserable). So she may be seeing the nipple as a dummy substitute but the fact that she goes on at all and really easily is cause for much optimism for me. To put it in perspective, in the first three weeks our attachment success rate was around 10%, since I've had a try in the last week, our attachment success rate has been 100%. We cosleep so that's good but I'll try to up the cuddles during the day. It's been hard to do skin to skin during the day as it seriously has been freezing here. But we've got a new heater going in this week and the weather is getting warmer anyway. Maybe all the planets are getting into alignment :)

A dummy is really a substitute nipple - so to be honest she's using your boobs for one of their intended functions, even if she's not getting much out! The more you are her dummy the better - as long as you don't get too sore.

Firstly don't worry about not being able to get anything out when AF is around it does mess with your milk but it always comes back - just keep doing what you are doing - it is exactly the right thing to do! I think a GP can presrcribe the supply stuff plus there are natural alternatives to boost supply - I saw a receipe around a little while ago that had a supply boosting cookie!

As far as the LC is concerned - if your not comfortable with them then don't worry - what about the ABA if you feel you need to talk things through - they are very relaxed and supportive of BF under any circumstances and like you would be so excited that you have gone back to it after a 5 wks - I think that is GREAT! They used to have a leaflet called relactating.

As everyone else has said keep putting her on all the time, before every feed if you can and your supply will be up really soon. It is so much easier once they are a little bigger and their mouth is bigger and can geet a better latch - with both my bubs we have done a combo of nipple sheilds and ebm until they were about 3 mths and could latch properly!

I am just so excited for you - hope things continue to go well

BTW - these are some tips for boosting supply from the ABA book
- try stroking the breast towards the nipple on all sides as your baby feeds
- change sides often (once your supply is up spend more time on each breast to increase hind milk)
- offer snack feeds whenever baby is awake
- offer the breast as a comforter instead of a dummy - just like you are :-)
- go with the flow - if baby is hungrieer and wants to feed more often go with it
- rest when you can and eat well
- drink LOTS of water
- use of a supply line - where you put the container around your neck - the ABA have these for hire sometimes and aren't as fussy as they sound - we used one for a few weeks.

BTW - it also says a better way of measuring how much bub is getting rather than weight is; good skin tone, alert, plenty of wet nappies and wet creamy yellow poos (I know nice)

Can't wait to hear how your story goes!!! keep up the great work

Hey, that sounds good!
Must be nice to take a relaxed approach

So a mixed day. Went to ob - was totally honest, explained that last week I'd been able to see droplets, that DD has been attaching every time so I want to re-try but have had my period and during that have been unable to get anything out. He gave me a script for Motilium but said he had to be honest and said he thought my chances of relactating are minimal. That's OK, told him I appreciated him giving me realistic expectations. Bit down on the way home thinking should have tried earlier, general beating myself up stuff.

Got home. Attached DD several times. Can see droplets again.

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!

Back on fenugreek. Will get the motilium tomorrow.

Have expressed too but really even after five mins and with floppy boobs, it's making me sore because the flanges aren't big enough for my nipple.

Can anyone recommend an expresser with bigger flanges. I'm currently using an Avent manual. I think the Medela ones have variable-sized flanges but I don't want to spend a couple of hundred bucks just yet and I'm not sure they'll come with the bigger flanges if I hire.

It sounds like things are going really well for you. I'm afraid I don't have much advice with regards to a breast pump, have you tried hand expressing instead? If you get the technique right I have been told it is easier and more productive than using a pump, although personally I never got the technique quite right.

The medela "big flange" attachment is about ten bucks. And it does make things comfier.
Not sure if the other companies make different sizes too - call the Mother's direct shop and ask them.

Fiona, the ABA in your area or your local chemist probably rent out the fandangled expensive pumps and if the larger flanges are cheap, maybe it's worth going that way for a couple of weeks. Although, I think putting your DD on the bb as often as you both want to and with the Motilium you'll probably have a better effect that way.

GL! I think the ob is being overly pessimistic, there are other ladies on here who've gotten back to full bfing with a less positive start than what you're having now. And a combination of bottle and breast is a good outcome too!

Jennifer, thank you, if you have chance can you post me links to the other success stories you mention. I need some added motivation. I'm only getting the tiniest drops out - way, way, less than 1ml. Yesterday I either pumped for about 5 mins each side every hour or so or put DD on but I think I was overly optimistic in my earlier post saying that she stayed on for 10 mins. Maybe it just felt like 10 mins, it's probably more like a few minutes but hey, I'm just pleased that I can actually get her on.

If I managed to get 10ml out by day 7 of the motilium, that would be great. I only have enough for about 17 days.

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...ng-142592.html

I'm having a search, but bear with me, because I can't remember the exact members who went through this and I'm not sure where everything is. ;)

...

Ah found them!

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...g-89840-6.html

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...g-70253-4.html

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...f-62790-3.html

You might want to check out some of becstar's posts after her thread - I think she might have posted in the bfing success stories as well.

Hope these help - you might find some of the advice helpful as well as getting some encouragement.

Fiona, I'm jsut running out the door, but PLEASE nag me to come back in here and chat to you, there is much I want to say...................:hug:

Fionas: I came across this thread looking for info in breast pumps for returning to work and would just like to wish you luck in re-establishing your milk supply. I too had amazing difficulty in the beginning, huge boobs, big nipples and a baby with what seemed like a very small mouth. I too saw LC and midwives who made it look like the most simple and natural process in the world and I just couldn't get the hang of it. In the beginning I could spend up to 3 hours trying to get him to latch properly, it usually ended when he would get frustrated and scream, therefore opening his mouth wide enough for me to get the boob in and I would end up in floods of tears feeling like the most useless Mum in the world.

I attended the ante-natal BF classes and read the books, confident that when the time came I would know exactly what to do, unfortunately looks like Elliot neglected to read the books or listen to the classes!! No matter what I did he would not present me with the nice wide gape and low tongue that all the pictures show you, no matter how many times I brushed his nose with the nipple!

When my milk came in he also had a fierce let down to deal with so not only could he not attach properly he would also cough, splutter and drown in a sea of milk. This made me feel even worse and our feed times were so amazingly stressful and I felt as though me feeding him this way was just cruel. Our breakthrough came when I read somewhere about pushing on babies chin as they approach the breast in order to get them to open their mouth wide enough. It was a 2 person operation and DH had to help me by pressing on the chin while I got the boob in and surprisingly it worked a treat! Suddenly we had a great mouthful or areola and gulping feeds, still with a little spluttering but manageable.

As time went on Elliot learned about how to BF, as did I and I must admit to feeling somewhat let down that nobody really informs you about how hard the BF journey can be. I was lucky that whilst my journey felt like a long one, by the time he was a few weeks old we had it down pat. He now attaches himself and perhaps still doesn't look like the pictures and we don't have the best seal as a little milk runs down his cheek, but I gave up trying for perfection and grew to accept that this works is what for us.

I know of many women who have had similar experiences to mine, some that have managed to work it out and others that didn't and chose like yourself that preservation of your sanity is the most important thing. It is sad that there is not enough support out there for us when we are struggling in the beginning, I know it must ba a common problem. I sincerely hope that you do manage to resurrect your breastfeeding journey, but if you don't try not to be too hard on yourself. Your little one is still thriving on formula and will continue to do so i'm sure. Well done for giving it your best shot, that's as much as we can be expected to do and if it doesn't work out then so be it, at least we tried.

Hope you manage to find a pump that works for you, I have the Avent and have not found it much use TBH. I really can't get much milk with it even with a good let down, the manual option has more suction and works better for me, but I will be investing in a heavy duty one soon. I went for a night out with DH and it took me a whole week to get enough milk for the night, needless to say we haven't managed again since, too much hassle!

GOOD LUCK!

Ladies, I wish I could respond to you all individually but I'm trying to do something (either attach or express) every hour or so, hence time is a little precious.

Hired pump. Phoned ABA for supply line (KMN - thanks so much for prodding me in the right direction, it DOES make a lot of sense to do it that way).

AND WE HAVE LIFT OFF.

Today is Day Three. Yesterday nothing. Nada. Would have been easy to give up hope. Decided to just not stare at what wasn't coming out of pump and to watch West Wing to distract me instead and to treat it as TV-viewing time, not expressing time.

Today, my goodness, we almost have a flow, lots of lovely drops forming on the boob. Not enough to actually drop but we have great progress and really, as long as you're making progress that's all you need to keep you motivated.

Am v happy. Now just have to keep going.

Yay, Fiona!! :clap:

Looking forward to hearing more positives after what is hopefully a restful weekend for you all.

not at all! demand and supply! As you start dropping FF and EBM feeds and she becomes more dependant on just you, she'll build your supply right up :)
Glad you're seeing an LC. I hope everything works out for you! x xx

How exciting!

Great work!

How are you doing this week, hun? Just doing a quick check in, not meaning to hassle you!

WELL DONE!!! :clap: What an awesome effort!!!!

Remember to try to relax when expressing, treating it as TV time is a great idea. The more you relax, the easier the milk will flow. I'm sure you know, but also remember that your DD will do a much better job of getting to all that yummy milk than a pump. Don't be disheartened by how little you pump either (although you don't sound disheartened at all, and good on you for that!) as it's not a true indication of how much milk you have.

You have done such an amazing job. You're an inspiration :D

PS: one of my best friends had lots of success with a supply line too. I wish I'd thought to mention that earier! :doh: Glad one of the girls in here is on the ball!

Thanks for asking guys. Good news - I have milk, but not much. Struggle to get more than a few mls out. Can't get anything out with electric pump, only with my manual pump. Still putting DD on whenever I can and pumping whenever I can (hence why I haven't updated in a while). But DD is not feeding while she's on, there's no swallowing because there's not enough there for her so I'm using her more as a nipple stimulator.

Have supply line but haven't had chance to use it yet. Every day just seems so hectic between pumping, feeding, attaching, settling (DD wakes up every 40 mins) and looking after my toddler. So it's full on BUT when you get to first base (ie. DD will actually go on) it just seems so much more do-able than the first few weeks where I could not get her to go on at all.

But, I am at the stage where if I'm not pumping or attaching then I feel guilty. DP has the weekend off and I know if we go and do family stuff, I'll feel guilty which is crazy. So the desire to BF again needs to be balanced with other factors. Will see where we're at in another week.

Wow, that does sound very hectic. If the pumping isn't yielding much, why not skip it?
Hope you have a good weekend.

CAn you get anything out with hand-squirting? I ask because that can be done in a couple of minutes in the loo, and might give you a reasonable compromise when out and about...

I agree with the two ideas above... and just wanted to throw my two cents in and say ditch the guilt. You're doing a wonderful thing to even attempt this... pls don't beat yourself up with "shoulds", but I must admit, I know it's so much easier said than done!! Also you mentioned the motilium and fenugreek. Are you trying RLT as well? I always found that seemed to do more for me than fenugreek, and I just took the Blackmores tablets rather than drinking the actual tea (I was too lazy for that lol).

Also for when you do pump, you said you're using a manual pump, have you tried using a make-shift hands-free bra as well? You can buy them online, but I don't imagine you'd want to do that at this stage... BUT I know of girls in the EE thread who've made their own by cutting a circle in an old crop top or bra. Then the pump bit "tucks in" IYKWIM... allowing you at least one hand free! If you google for an image of "easy expressions pumping bustier" you'll see what the commercial ones look like. I think that anything you can do to make it more relaxing, or allow you to do other things (or even more importantly) focus on other things can help make it all more maintainable. GL, i'm cheering you on :clap: - because regardless of the outcome, I really admire your effort and you should be so very proud of yourself :hug:.

Marcellus - I don't feel like I can give up the pumping until I get the supply line worked out. I don't believe that DD is doing enough on the boob to stimulate my milk whereas at least I know that the pump is in theory. Once I've worked out the supply line thing, I think we'll be right. I should be figuring it out now but this is the first chance I've had to think ALL day. Am going to set the alarm for tomorrow morning and try to have that worked out before DD2 wakes up. Might have to start a thread on tips for that. I know how it works but logistically I don't know how you would be able to set it up each time before having a hysterical baby on your hands. I just get stressed when DD cries and want to feed her as quickly as possible and that will be hard if if I'm fiddling around taping tubes to my boobs. If anyone has any tips, let me know!

Belfie - I've got the one-handed pumping down pat :) - the bigger problem for me is DD waking up every 40 mins during the day and cracking it if you put her down again. She's a bit of a velcro baby. Lucky she's cute. Am going to have to get a sling I think but it's really hard during the day to start browsing around online for things.

Fair enough. Do you pump and feed at the same time at all?
I always wonered the same thing about suply lines - seem so fiddly. Maybe there's a nack to it.

I think that Eluned just used a nasogastric tube with one end in the bottle and the other in the corner of bub's mouth - rather like a big floppy straw. No tape or anything overly fiddly.

fionas i used a supply line with DS1 for a little while i haven't read the resent pages but is it EBM you're useing? if you can guessume your DD is going to wake at say 1:30am pull out the EBM and pop it in the dispencer thingy (cant think of the name right now) and pop it between your boobs about half hour before and tape the line along your boob to the nipple ect. this a) warms the milk up to body temp and b) is ready for the feed before hand. i found this worked with DS1 as the milk comming from the breast was the same temp and all as the supply line.
you're doing a good job, i admire you for trying :hug:

Dansta - unfortunately I can't predict when she's going to need a full feed because during the day she wakes every 40 mins. I use that opportunity to put her on the boob to stimulate my supply but she's not actually feeding, just having a bit of a suck. Sometimes she goes back to sleep, sometimes she's up for a bit, sometimes she has a bit of formula. It's really hard to know how many short naps and wake-ups she's going to need before having a full feed beause some days she has lots of snacks. This is obviously not ideal but at the moment, I'm living with it because I know that putting her on the boob every time she wakes up (even if it might only be for a few minutes before she cracks it at the lack of milk) is good for my supply (bearing in mind that I had NO milk, not a drop, 8 days ago and now I have some).

She's on formula not EBM so I'm not sure how long I could have that in the dispenser warming up even if I could predict her wake up times.