trouble positioning & attaching - big BB's & short arms!

thanks again for the support :clap:
SamiH, I'm using the same machine we had in the hossie to express, so that makes life easier. BUT I did start with only 30ml and now it's varied anywhere up to 170ml (that was a bumper crop that one!). Sounds like you and your Zander are doing great guns which is fab to hear :dance:

The update is... we're doing well! He put on a whopping 810g between 2 and 4 weeks :o. The formula is pretty much a thing of the past.... and slowly, slowly, we're having more feeds that don't even start with the EBM. We've also been having lots of snuggles and love and I think he's definitely happier in boobie-town than he was! I did have one night with 3 bad feeds in a row (just couldn't get him happily attached)... so few deep breaths (thanks Jennifer!), smiled & gave him some EBM in a bottle. And sure enough, the next day was ok again. So that was a big relief.

Just occasionally we have a feed where he just seems to want more & more. THe other night he spent 30 mins on the left, 12 on the right... then took 40ml EBM, then 30ml, then another 30ml. STILL seemed hungry, so 50ml of formula (I was out of EBM). Yup, that's a total of 150ml of top-up!!!!! :o And then FINALLY he wasn't hungry anymore and went to sleep! So I can only assume that he just didn't get much on the breast that night. Seemed a bit weird to me, so I'm just making sure I can hear him swallowing and I know it's all happening. Plus the shield is still more prone to slipping on the right BB, so I'm being extra careful with that one.

So saying, the times I have a BB-only feed... no bottles to wash, no expressing required.. omg it's just bliss! I love the feel of his little body snuggling into mine so contentedly... beats the cr*p outta expressing & bottlefeeding!

Oh and I didn't end up having the LC out again yet, as we both agreed we were doing well for now, and we'll probably have her back in a few weeks if we start trying to get rid of the nipple shield (or if things change!). Oh and yeah... 4 weeks down! YAY us!

Big yay to you!

Well done, Belfie. :clap:

The better you do and the more confidence you gain the closer you'll be to your next steps: getting rid of top-ups and the nipple shields. What a great job you've done!! :cheer:

Well done Belfie
I am glad it is improving for you, i hope it continues.
i found it was easier to not think ahead and just concentrate on now and try and relax with it. Also finding the most comfortable way for you to feed was very important as i had alot of advice but when it comes down to it, do what feels right for you and bubs.

Once again well done you are doing a great job....

Hello! Just wanted to drop in and say hi. Hadn't seen a pic of Xander, and he is absolutely beautiful, Im so happy for you! Well done on surviving the first month, it can be sooo hard. Im glad the BF issues are getting better. I had all those probs with DD, and Im a bit concerned about a repeat this time. Am trying to go into the whole thing with an open mind, and positive attitude, Im sure it will help! Anyway, so glad you're both doing well. Take carexx:D

Thanks Beaksie :hug:
I'm slightly amazed to realised how long we've been BF'ing now... woo hoo. Just one feed at a time... one day at a time. All the very best for you - the support in here is brilliant & I'm sending you great feeding vibes - but sounds like you won't need them with the open mind & positive attitude - atta girl!

Cheers,
Belfie

soooo we're back again! Last few days I'm having trouble getting him to attach well again. He attaches then arches back & pops off... cries.. is hungry... repeat ad infinitum! I've varied between persisting or doing a number of attempts before going to EBM.

I'm a bit torn... I'm worried that maybe he's doing this because the breast is too much like hard work, so I'm accidentally reinforcing him going to "easy-town" on the bottle... or if I persist, am I just giving him a negative association on the breast? Before we were able to do 20+ mins quite happily (on the left in partic)... but now i'm struggling to get him on for 10 mins (and it's less than that, or not at all for some feeds). On the bright side, I've switched to a football hold on the right, and he's now doing 10 mins where before I could barely get him on it. But where he WAS attaching well on the left, he's now often not attaching properly and I'm finding it painful so if he doesn't pop himself off, I take him off! He wants to slide up & down the nipple shield like it's a lollipop.. nuh-uh!!! I tried attaching without the shield and it wasn't brilliant (and I think I need my friendly LC to help us start attaching without the shield).

Should i persist with the breast even when he's getting very unhappy? Or should I do a number of attempts then go EBM (or formula when I'm out of EBM)?
I'm going to call my LC again tomorrow. But another question in my head... I'd been kinda wanting to get more settled feeding with the shield before we tried to get rid of it. Or should I just be trying to get rid of it now, and not worrying about whether the shield is going well?

And to add to my grumpiness, I've got an episiotomy that doesn't seem to be healing well, (sorry if TMI), hemorrhoids (I think!?) and a head cold. So when I'm struggling to attach him, all these things become my excuse to go to EBM. Am I being smart to cope or using these things as a cop-out? :dunno:

note to self: 6 weeks on thursday... 6 weeks on thursday. I'm scared that I'll get to 6 weeks, and then be tempted to give up. Pls help me to not use it as a cop-out. i have SO many reasons to BF him it's not funny - allergies from both me & DH, significant food malabsorption issue from me, food sensitivities (inc dairy) from DH, plus I had GD and there's type II diabetes in the family.... so the breastmilk is sooooo good for him. And while he's had a bit of formula, 95% of his food has been breastmilk. Sorry I'm rambling now - this is my late-night pep-talk.

Thanks for listening.

So far doing what the LC suggests has been pretty effective for you - so get another lesson and hop back on the bike!
I would just focus on getting BM into bub, and I didn't care how it happened - as bub got stronger, BF became easier, and expressing became more of a pain in the butt. You will be very lucky to get a screaming, unhappy baby to attach properly- so if some EBM calms him down once you are at that point then use it. But always try to attach first - sometimes he will surprise you and attach well, and other times it will be pretty ordinary.

And you must look after you as well - get the TMI looked at too!

Belfie, you are doing well, even though it sounds like you're doubting yourself. Try to give yourself a big pat on the back for how far you've come, despite all of your troubles. A lot of women give up when faced with the same obstacles, so it's a true testament to both your commitment and the great support you've built up around yourself that you're still going.

:hug: see your LC again. And phone the ABA hotline in the meantime, just to get a friendly voice on the end of the advice. Keep going, one day at a time. You will soon be looking back on this as an experience. 6 weeks is your first milestone, but like you I found it helpful to have others. I have heard of Mums who got to 12 weeks still experiencing difficutlies and then overcome them. So maybe think of your next goal - 3 mths?

Good luck!

Belfie you have done so well to even get this far with all the obsticles you have overcome. And i know you must be feeling crappy with the cold and other issues you need to look after yourself also. I am with jennifer give your lc a call and go from there, take one feed at a time and hopefully it will improve for you...:hug:

Belfie,
Another option, if your insurance will cover it, is a lactation day stay session. I went to one at Jessie Mac (the private bit of Monash Med Centre), and it was really helpful. It's 2 or 3 mums and their bubs, an LC for the day, meals and comfy chairs provided, and essentially a determination to get things to improve - with the time to try several things over several feeds. They run them every couple of weeks, as they get Mum's together - so if you are interested, give them a ring soon, and they can let you know when the next one is.
hugs
Kate

Thanks for the encouragement ladies.

Firstly... I made it to 6 weeks... YAAAAAAY!
Secondly - Kmn, I was booked into a lactation clinic at Mitcham Private but it got cancelled and there were no other dates offered, so I ended up going with the private LC instead... so I think we'll keep doing that for the moment, but good to know re Jesse Mac.
Jennifer13 - you are so right I WAS/AM doubting myself. Have resolved to do a couple of things...
Firstly - believe in myself (no doubting the belfie!)

Secondly - put up or shut-up. I really want to be less stressed about this... either it works and we attach well or we bottlefeed... happily! I don't want to put myself through the ringer about this. I've been doing bottle feeds overnight and expressing as I'm finding that we're much more efficient and happier doing that. If I was attempting the BB's unsuccessfully THEN bottle THEN expressing it was taking YONKS! (and I was getting upset). Now in the daytime we're trying the BB's and we both have a better success rate and less upset on my part.

Thirdly - spoke to my LC today (I'd been procrastinating ringing her). She's coming out next week and we'll try some shield-less attaching. BF'ing is really really inconsistent at present. Just when I'm despairing (and post here!) suddenly we'll have awesome feeds for a few days... but overall our trend of BF'ing versus bottle is going the wrong direction which is not what I was expecting/hoping for at this stage. He tends to leak lots of milk when he's feeding, no matter how well he seems to be attached! The nipple is good shape, the position is good, he's happy - I can't seem to attach him any better.. but he's dripping milk out the side (which suggests he's NOT attached well). Plus he's a very snuffly/snorty baby so I don't know if that's playing a part with how he's feeding - I feel he's opening his mouth to breath and dribbling lots. So my LC is going to look at that. Plus he's sometimes had ages on the breast then is still hungry and getting frustrated so I can't get him back on happily, then we end up doing top-ups. But on the bright side, I'm really starting to realise that the bad patches don't last for ever (even though the good patches don't either haha!) so everything passes and that helps me to feel less stressed.

Eep this is turning into my blog at this rate! But thanks for reading and the support. We're hanging in there! (oh and the TMI stuff is getting better too, so that's good).

Yay Belfie!! Just flying by, I've had a snuffly baby and sometimes saline solution in their noses (like Fess) 10mins before helped them breathe.

And Si sometimes leaks milk, he doesn't have great attachment but it doesn't matter for him because I think I flow really fast into his mouth. I actually think if he attached 'properly' like his brother did, he'd be overwhelmed, I think his way of attaching holds back the flow a bit? Is it possible that you have generous supply? The arching back I read a few posts back could be that too - Si used to pull off just as I was letting down (annoying) if I insisted on him attaching the textbook way, I guess he'd get overwhelmed...so I started leaning right back at the start of the feed.

Anyway, besides all my ramblings, well done for keeping on, you are doing so well (and from your pics, he is gorgeous)!

Hi Belfie. Just wanted to drop by and see how it's all going. Sorry you're still having an issue with attachment. It's hard isnt it?? Well done on your persistence though. I reckon if you can hang in there it will get better. Most people say the first 6 weeks are the hardest. Anyway, keep up the good work (I sound like a school teacher :redface:), and take care xx

hey hun..

u are doing such a great job..

im sure u have seen my thread in here about all the trouble im having with BFing..

U are pure inspiration to me i swear. Im thinking that i might give Mia some EBM before a feed to, just to calm her down. Tho it doesnt really help her sleeping issues.

Sorry to jump in on this thread. just letting u know im sooooo proud of u! u are a great mummy!

Aaaw Hollye aren't u a sweetie! I feel like such a fraud when I read your lovely comments :redface:, cos I've just decided to give myself a break for the rest of the weekend - so we're going EBM. So I don't feel I deserve any praise at all. But... he is much more miserable & screaming when I BF him compared to the bottle :( so neither of us are enjoying BF'ing at present.... but with the EBM he's a cute snuggly gorgeous little smiley man. So here's hoping the LC can get us back on track on Monday. We're going to have a bath and lots of cuddles and enjoy each other in the interim. It's funny that I don't feel I deserve your praise because it's not working for us at present. Silly me. I guess I'm being too hard on myself (that's what DH says) but it's just so frustrating!!!

Beaksie, thanks so much - and oooh can't wait to hear your announcement

Nelle - I've been using FESS but not before a feed, usually part-way through (it helps wake him up as he doesn't like it at all & snorts madly - so cute/funny). Once I'm feeling brave enough to BF again, I'll take extra special note of if he's feeding better afterwards.

Sooo.. I'm crossing my fingers for some magically brilliant shield-less attaching on Monday... even though I know it's not likely to be that easy. Oh well. Another day... another boob... or something like that!

Belfie - hang in there hun - it really is hard to see through the haze when you get in a sleep deprived funk - it does get easier really soon :)

You've done so well in weighing up your options and stuck with expressing and BF when of course it seems much easier to go bottle when times are tough - well done!

u deserve every single bit of my praise sweety! we are in this together and u are doing a great job! just look at that beautiful boy YOU have created. Hang in there.. and good luck for monday..

ill be making another appointment for me on monday with the LC again.. i like going there anyway, spend the whole day and just concentrating on me and Mia. Do you like going?