I'd dob them in as DH and I pay sh*tloads of tax and it really angers me when people who don't deserve the benefits get my taxes.
Printable View
I'd dob them in as DH and I pay sh*tloads of tax and it really angers me when people who don't deserve the benefits get my taxes.
In the long run it's better for everyone, the size of the debt determines court action. You don't automatically go to court - but if its HUGE and obvious you will.
Inertia, I'm not sure why the responsibility shouldn't rest on the person defrauding the system - why not? There are warnings all over every possible letter you get, every one knows the risks - if they play with fire, they play with fire.
It's also about stopping the cycle of welfare too - there are entire extended families in which Clink is just a part of life, cheating is also normal. They are used to coming in each fortnight like its a social thing, working just NEVER seems to come into the equation and cheating is a natural part of it too. That's no good. EVER.
I've dealt with people (many many people actually) that totally lie, in one memorable case the young fella had earnt nearly $1000 one week, when I told him his dole payment wouldn't come through he screamed the house down and said well whats the effing point of working then? :rolleyes:
If and when you do 'dob someone in' you actually need to know ALOT about the situation, full names, addresses etc etc etc.
:yeahthat::
I wouldn't dob.
I've been lurking in this thread and I've decided to put my 2 cents worth in...
At the end of the day you might think you know what they are doing in your own assumption but there is a very good chance your wrong.
My mum is on the pension (she is in her 60's) and after she and my dad separated 12 years ago she was on single parents for my brother.
Now as she is an older mother she had a lot of time to accumulate nice and expensive things before having kids and as she looks after things still looks really nice.
The amount of times people "dobbed" mum in for cheating when she was being completely kosher just because they made an incorrect assumption really makes me furious!!!!!
Noone know what happens in someone elses life unless you are a fly on the wall at all times...
I would mind my own and stay out of it personally - seems we all have enough crap in our own backyards to deal with - without shovelling everyone elses.
my 2c. I would dob if i thought someone was defrauding centrelink.
to have kids is a financial sacrifice in any situation. Benefits are more than enough to live off. Benefits are there so you can pay rent, energy/water bills, live & eat sensibly. Not so you can afford to take a holiday, buy a house, have health insurance, a flashy car, buy booze & ciggerettes.. if benefits were extravagant no one would work. (i am on benefits btw, im not taking the pi$$ out of something i haven't had any experience with)
whats the clink quote they used a few years back "support the system, that supports you?" something like that... We have a generous welfare system (altho not perfect) that we should be grateful for. Those who cheat the system deserve what comes to them yes, but it would be better if they got served a small payback than a huge fine + bill (whatever) + prison later down the track (and the kids go where?). It would be insensitive to let them get away with it than to dob them in, regardless of how it affects you financially. (my opinon end :D )
i know it's frustrating for those that are doing the right thing to be investigated - but it's better for an investigation to happen and prove they're doing the right thing than to continue to have people speculate
look at it this way - if you owned a small business and someone was stealing from you, you'd want to know and deal with it = this is NO DIFFERENT.
welfare is there to help people through tough times until they ccan become self sufficient again - it's not there to provide a lifestyle, just the essentials - and ANONYMOUSLY doing a tip off is the responsible thing to do - if someone is doing nothing wrong what do they have to hide???
Personally... I probably wouldn't bother. Dobbing someone in won't lower the taxes DH pays, or mean that there is suddenly 'more to go around'... so it wouldn't affect me in any way. I spent a few years getting assistance from Centrelink when I was going through a rough patch in my life and needed the help getting back on my feet when work was scarce, and I always did the 'right' thing - and ended up getting gypped for it (my situation: I did the right thing and told C'Link when I moved in with my bf, who worked part-time. My benefits went from around $400 a fortnight to $3 a fortnight, despite the fact that my bf was only earning enough to pay our share of the rent - he had to walk 13km to work and back every day because we didn't have a car and couldn't afford to give my parents fuel money to take him, and if we had $30 at the end of the week for groceries it was a good week. Basically, I starved for months because I was determined not to rort the system and the way the stupid system worked was to disadvantage me - I couldn't afford to eat, let alone look for work), so there is a small part of me that spitefully (and wrongly) thinks that if some people rort the system, then the government deserves it because there are plenty of people out there who do the right thing and suffer needlessly for it, while others who don't really need the assistance they get, get plenty of it.
I know a lot of people complain about 'dole bludgers' and hate that their hard-earned dollars are paying for some people to be lazy good-for-nothings, but the way I see it, if every 'dole cheat' in Australia was caught and stopped from claiming money they're not entitled to, it wouldn't mean I end up with any extra money in my pocket. DH and I would still pay the same amount of tax, we would be no better or worse off if the system was flawless and nobody did the wrong thing. So, I wouldn't bother sticking my neck out because it's not like these people are breaking into my house and taking my wallet - I wouldn't gain anything by dobbing them in, and unless I knew full well their exact circumstances (perhaps they're in a similar circumstance to what I was and literally cannot afford to eat if they don't cheat, maybe they have an illness or disability preventing them from working instead of claiming benefits but don't know that they can get other payments/assistance for their illness - I know Centrelink never wanted to tell me what I was entitled to, I had to find out from friends who had been there before me), I just wouldn't stick my neck out. I know you can 'anonymously' tip C'Link off, but then I suppose it depends - maybe you are the only person who knows about the fraud and it wouldn't be hard for the person being investigated to follow the trail back to you, kwim?
Oh and LaDeeDa, I know what you mean. DH and I used to run in some pretty rough circles a few years ago, but now that we have kids we want to provide for them as best we possibly can. DH is struggling with juggling a 42-hr a week job and night courses at TAFE to pay the bills and further his skills so that we can have nice things, and because we are smart with what money we have, a lot of people seem to think we're cheating C'Link or something. A friend of DH's has two kids and his missus is claiming single parent, so she 'jumped the queue' for a housing commission place (ie, cheap-as-dirt rent) and they still don't have what we have, because the bloke won't hold a job for more than a few weeks. And somehow, because we have a decent car, a small but tidy house, and I can afford to buy myself a new item of clothing every now and then (because we're not spending our money on alcohol and pot like this other couple do), I must be claiming SPP as well?? It annoys me no end to think that people are so unintelligent when it comes to money that they think anybody who is better off than them *must* be claiming money they're not entitled to, but I'm more than happy for someone to dob me in if they think that's what I'm doing - C'Link can go over my stuff with a fine-toothed comb and they'll find zilch. And as for the couple I mentioned... I *could* dob them in, but I know that a reduction on their benefits won't stop them spending what they have on the pokies, bourbon and weed - it just means their kids will go hungry.
if there were no welfare cheats, there would be a crap load more money to go to those who need it genuinely. there would be no requirement for funds for investigations, there would be no legal fees paid by the government in prosecuting fraud - and you're right, you may not get any reduction to the tax you pay BUT there is a budget assigned to family assistance and social security - and if that didn't have to have funds coming out of it to pay the cheats, to pay for investigation - there'd be more there that WOULD be able to be dispersed - so directly, you may not see it - but indirectly, it makes a huge difference.
for instance - for every pps customer who is partnered and claiming pps when they shouldn't be - they're getting AT LEAST 150 a fortnight more than they should be. depending on partner income, it could be as much as 550 (or more) a fortnight PLUS the extra ftb they're claiming. it's ridiculous, it's against the law. it's something that should be reported.
fwiw - when you do a tip off one of the last questions is "is there any information that you have provided that may identify you as the person providing this tip off" - when it's submitted to the team that investigate, they will not make reference to that information at all. a tip off is investigated in a way that is not able to be noticed as a tip off to the person being investigated
ultimately, it is up to you where your moral compass points. as someone who has had to live on welfare and end up in an horrific amount of debt just to survive as a student (what a brilliant scheme - give up some of your youth allowance, get double back each fortnight just to give you enough to survive on - but it becomes a debt when you're finished uni!) - i know how hard it is to get by on a pittance. but i also wouldn't do anything illegal. i guess my moral compass is pointed in a certain direction, and was there well before i started working for centrelink
:
I don't think it has anything to do with morals - the morals people should be worried about is those who are defrauding....
I don't think people necessarily have average morals because they don't "dob".....
I try not to stick my nose into other people's business...but I still think I am a very moral person. IYKWIM
i'm not saying NOT tipping off (sorry, i hate the term DOB - it makes it sound so much worse than it is) shows a lack of morals - but choosing to not tip off when you think something is suss means that your morals/values are different to those who choose to do it
for me, "dobbing" is saying that you believe this person is doing something wrong and you want them to be in trouble. it's what happens at school - you go and dob on the kid that did the wrong thing
a tip off is simply providing information and saying "maybe you need to look at this" - it's not necessarily going to get the person in "trouble" - some people don't KNOW they're doing the wrong thing and a gentle nudge helps to rectify the problem.
the only people who's morals i question are those that intentionally defraud the system - THEY are the ones with serious issues. i was just stating that, when it comes to the legalities of social welfare, i draw a very firm line in the sand, and if i suspect someone MIGHT be doing something wrong, i'll do a tip off. it's simply who i am. i would rather someone get found out now and sort it out, than to let it go and end up with massive debts.
my previous post may have come across wrong and i apologise to anyone that may take it as me meaning they have no morals if they don't do a tip off - it wasn't meant like that - it was simply to say we all have different points at which we say "ok, i'm going to do something about this"