Our Kinder will run 3x 5hr classes instead of 3x 4hr classes per week.
It also means that they will most likely have to shut down the 3yr old program as they don't have the space to run 2 kinder programs at once.
Printable View
Our Kinder will run 3x 5hr classes instead of 3x 4hr classes per week.
It also means that they will most likely have to shut down the 3yr old program as they don't have the space to run 2 kinder programs at once.
15 hrs a week not in 1 day.:
MadB - yes it makes a difference. She's in the system and she knows what your DS is capable of and other children.
One rule does not fit all - but sheesh, it'd make deciding easier, wouldn't it ;)
One deciding factor for me was imagining a gifted or troubled or misunderstood boy at age 8 struggling at school. I don't want the first response to be 'he's too young, put him back a year'. I don't want his age to be his excuse ever.
Lenny - just as an aside, you can put in an application for kinder now for next year. Just because it is late doesn't matter - mine was late too :doh: All they do in most councils is allocate the ones that come in on time, then the ones that come in late get allocated on a first come first served basis. Keep calling and get your application in and you might be surprised. We initially got our 3rd choice and then a few weeks before kinder went back we got our first choice.
MJ is a March 08 baby and is enrolled in a Steiner preschool... You don't actually get a choice as to keep them back or put them off... If your child is 4 by sept 30 2012 they are in the 'young group', if they are 5 by the same date, they go to 'older group', the following year they start school, so they all start as 6 year olds (or pretty much):
I'm not sure if montisorri (sp) is the same?
If MJ was going to a main stream primary, I probably would have sent her to school at 5 though, so I am glad the choice is removed if that makes sense.
---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Im confused. My DS who is turning 4 next yr in March goes to daycare three days a week. Next yr they go to kindy (in the daycare), so will he be in kindy the whole time (3 days a week), is it a different kind of payment to daycare. Should I keep him there for 2 yrs (start school to be in 2014), turning 6 that yr. Im am so so confused. i cant even remember with my first DS (he is now 14 in yr 8) how I went about it. Although we had moved from sydney to qld now to melbourne so the eldest has changed school alot. He also had to go back a yr when we moved from syd to qld.
If he turns 5 in March you can start him at school in 2013 if you want to, if he goes to kinder at daycare it should be included in your day care fees. Sessional kinder/preschool is a different payment, we pay around $250 a term and they go for anywhere from 10.5 hours to 15 hours a week depending on the kinder. For eg. my dd will be going to 4 yr old kinder and doing 8:30-12:30 Monday, 8:30-1:30 Tuesday, and 1:30-4:30 on a Thursday but they are all different days and times. You will find that if he goes to 4 year old kinder or daycare they will let you know if they think he will be ready for school the following year.
I know that most of this thread was written a few months ago, but I just wanted to put my two cents in for what that's worth :lol:
I'm going to be a bit of a devil's advocate here, so please bear with me - I will preface what I am about to say with the fact that I hear everything everyone has written here, and I agree with the sentiments. I understand why most people have suggested holding a child back is a good idea... however....
I wonder if it has occured to people that the reason there is such a large age gap between students is BECAUSE people hold their children back. If NO ONE was able to pick and choose which age a child started school (and as a consequence kinder) then there would always only be 12 months age gap between children.
From a research perspective the evidnece is actually clear that in the long term (i.e. by the time a child is 14) the gap between the child and his/her peers is the SAME is if they had not been repeated, and in fact the negatives at this time can be/often are quite substantial - in terms of self esteem/confidence etc. That is not to say that there are no short term positives - there can be some positives, but the negatives in the long term, for the most part, outweigh the positives that do occur.
Having said that, if you are going to repeat - best to do it before they start school - and at the latest prep (or whatever your equivalent is if you are not in VIC).
If your child is going to struggle academically - then holding them back is not going to 'fix' that - they need support to acheive to their potential, but there may always be a gap between their ability and that of others - thats okay!! we all have strengths and weaknesses, and there is a distribution of ability in, and between, all of us, no matter how old we are.
kindergartens and teachers often suggest repeating for children who are not ready - but what are you going to do if your child is 'not ready' every year? He/she can't repeat more than once! You can't stay at primary school or high school forever if you are "not ready".
There is variability amongst us all, and whether we like it or not, some of us will have children who cope, and some of us will have children who don't. Best thing is to set up a positive environment at home where learning is fun, enjoyable and part of every day life, keep regular routines to ensure your child can be the best they can be, and choose a school that has values that are important to you and consistent with your beliefs - Be your child's advocate (cause not one else will for you!), but accept and work with their strengths and weaknesses the best you can. This variability will occur, whether we have a 1 month, 6 month, 12 month, 24 month, or 5 year age gap between people - all we can hope for is to reduce the variability as much as possible so children can learn the best they can.
I am convinced that repeating is not the answer. We need to make sure our curriculum is catering for these diverse needs - and to be honest teachers need to do this whether a child starts at 4, 5 or 6. Different children will be 'ready' to learn in their own time - so lets just provide the opportunity for them to learn.
How can you know what a child is going to be ready for when they are only 3!!??!! There is so much development going on at this time, and while you DO need to think about the future, you also need to KNOW the future to make accurate decisions.... as you can't possibly know whether your child will cope with starting school, being 11 in year 7, being 18 in year 12 or starting uni at 17, you just have to do your best to help your child be the best they can be in the moment you are in....
and I come back to my original point... by holding your child back, you are helping to actually CREATE the bigger age gap, that needn't be there in the first place.
For a well researched article about the actual research on repeating - please check out this link.
http://www.bounceback.com.au/sites/d...epeat%3F_0.pdf
I hope this information gives everyone some food for thought and a different perspective on their choices.
Ultimately as others have said, the needs of the individual child MUST be taken into account -- but I would argue, that there are very few genuine reasons for repeating - if you must, do it at kinder - but be aware that you are helping create the problem that worries you in the first place.
sorry if this has gone on a bit - best of luck whatever everyone decides - I hope this sparks some thoughts about the other side of repeating :)
I am really tired and need to go to bed but need to reply and probably come back to reply properly.. but ....Well kids have to start by 6 so you can't keep doing it forever, however as a teacher of many kids in prep who really, really aren't ready I have to say that we don't see problems related to kids ages and the gaps in age, there are academic gaps regardless. Teachers DO cater for individual needs based on what kids need regardless of how old they are. When we are teaching them we teach to the child -we don't stop to ask or think about how old each child be before we teach them.:
kindergartens and teachers often suggest repeating for children who are not ready - but what are you going to do if your child is 'not ready' every year? He/she can't repeat more than once! You can't stay at primary school or high school forever if you are "not ready".
If kids are genuinely struggling at kinder though, chances are that will continue at school and if they get half way through 4yr kinder and are still struggling it is worth looking at holding them back if possible (in some cases it's not because of age - for eg. my DD cannot start school next year in 2012 and has to to start in 2013 which is the year she turns 6. We don't have a choice, however some people who fall outside of that do have a choice and it is reasonable to expect them to look at if their child is ready. If DD was born in April she could be going next year, she would academically be SO ready, socially close to ready, but I would have huge concerns about how tired she would get because if she has no nap right now she is beside herself :rofl: I am super glad the choice is out of my hands.
Not sure I have response as well or as eloquently as I wanted to so might have to be back in the morning with a fresh brain on.
ETA: We should be looking more and more to Europe and countries like Finland, where kids don't start to learn to read or start school until they are 7 because they are not developmentally ready to do so. Instead we look to the US where we are going more and more down a data and statistic driven path where kids individual needs are not looked at, and where kids level of reading takes precedence over the fact that they are kids and simply need the chance to explore, play, develop curiosity and create their own learning. Off my soapbox and into bed now :rofl:
Totally agree Tanstar, I am not convinced we are on the right path with the age kids start school either- but whatever age they start - we should be doing things that are developmentally appropriate - and over the past 10 years I have seen a big increase in the expectations for prep - just not sure it's necessary - all this pressure to make little kids do things they are just not ready for - I don't think that holding kids back from school is the answer - whatever age we 'set' as the starting age - it's just an arbitory figure - lets just agree on something and stick to it.:p
You are right that age is not the issue - and I think I'm saying the same thing, just in a different way. Kids need to be 'ready' - my concern is that 'ready' is such a subjective thing!! How about we just make a decision about when we want our kids to start school - and just provide them with an age appropriate curriculum - that is modified and differentiated according the the ability levels within each group (isn't that what we are doing anyway??) :ROFL:
p.s. didn't mean to insinute teachers are not doing a good job - I think teachers are awesome, and would never volunteer to do their job!! Just that I have the repeating question come up all the time - and there is no research evidence that it is of benefit...
p.s.s think you managed to grab one of the more unreasonable statements i made in my little brain flap -- what I meant was, kids can't keep repeating every year - and repeating isn't the answer - we both agree that teachers are providing (in most cases!:)) modification where needed, and really I think that's the best thing. Unfortuntely we need more resources in schools to help cater for these individual differences (e.g. special ed teachers, teacher assistants, welfare staff etc).
p.s.s. I hope it's out of my hands too... because with so many kids being held back, I worry my kids will be so much younger if I don't hold them back - even though I am against the idea in general.
Yep totally agree! There are huge issues all round with the system as it stands, I am a mainstream schooling teacher and I disagree with the way we teach, the way we shuffle kids through the system, the way we focus on doggamn Naplan and data, and the way we squash so much creativity, expression, and childishness purely to make kids fit in a box. Somethings gotta give!! I agree too that repeating is not an answer, but I think repeating is a different issue to delaying the start of school for kids who might turn 5 in April for eg. and may not be ready and are subsequently held back from beginning that year for the following year.
PS - I am tired and don't think bacardi and threads like this mix :rofl: Bed time much?
personally, I think it depends so much on the child individually, and the learning environment provided in both the school and the home.
I'm a June baby, my sister is May, we both started kinder at 3 and school at 4 - but there's a difference between our ENTER scores of about 20 points ... we both worked hard, we both picked the best subjects for us, but we just have different aptitudes ...
my brothers are December and January babies - so they were both 4 at the start of kinder and 5 at the start of school ... and there's a difference of about 12 points between their ENTER scores too.
personally, I think a kid who is going to perform well is going to perform well whether they start at 4 or 5.
I reckon they'll mature and progress socially and academically based on what they're exposed to ... not whether they're born in month a of month b ...
lmao :)
my point was that delaying the entry to school contributes to greatever variability within the first year of school, so that kids who are not held back seem even younger - when as a matter of fact they would have been fine, if the rest of the class actually was the same age as they are!!
anyway.. we can come back to this at another time when the bacardi has left the system..... I'm off to bed too :) maybe we need to create a separate thread just to debate the pros and cons....
told you I was going to be a devil's advocate here.... just putting out the other side for provocative thought :)
p.s. think we might actually have similar views in here somewhere anyway ;) :rofl:
New thread sounds like a good idea!! :) Sorry for hijacking and Caz I hope some of that helped!!!
I missed this original discussion. My DD is 3 on May 13 next year... she misses the 2014 Prep intake by 13 days. I was always pretty happy with the fact that the decision for us was already made, but I'm worried that she'll be held back academically being the oldest in her classes.
Earlier this week after speaking with the council, they are allowing her to attend 3yo kinder for 2 years straight. She will attend from the day she turns 3 in Term 2, 2012, through to the final day of term 4, 2013. Academically, she's totally ready for kinder in all it's shapes and forms. Maturity wise at the moment, she needs a little extra. She struggles when away from her brother for extended periods and does have trouble out in public situations where she does tend to start off clinging to me, but after a period of time has relaxed and is her normal self. I've decided to send her for nearly 7 terms of 3yo kinder. I think it's only going to benefit her in many ways. I think she will be one to get bored in her second year, but that is something I can work on at home. I'm looking forward to the benefits 2 years of 3yo kinder will provide. We are at a disadvantage that out here, there is no child care and limited opportunities for social interaction of our young children, which is a big reason why I'm pushing for DD's inclusion next year (also to make up numbers as at this point they will have no 3yo program with the current enrolments).
I know that some of you are in the same boat as me with children age wise, perhaps you could speak to the kinder about extended attendance in a 3yo program?
Good luck with your decisions those of you who have children before the age cut offs. It would be an extremely difficult decision to make and one I'm glad I don't really have to ever think about.
Wow! Just went to the introduction day at DS1's 3 year old kinder.
There are children in the class turning 5 this year.
My biggest fear with 'holding him back' was that he'd be understimulated and feel a bit 'old'. I knew the teachers would always try to individualise it a bit, but there is only so much you can do with a class of 22. But he's still one of the younger ones there!
Phew - relieved. I know i would have made it work whatever happened, but this outcome has confirmed my thoughts and convinced me that 4 year old kinder would have been too much - potentially with kids turning 6.
I really did appreciate the advice i got here. It was a big decision and it's nice sometimes to have it thrashed out with people who don't all know you personally and who have BTDT.
There was a few in DD's class last yr that turned 6 in 4yr old kinder, from october to December, but not many, they didn't look out of place either! DD2 will turn 5 T the very start of 4 yr old kinder
I'm glad you are happy with your decision and you have been able to see and feel the benefits for your DS.
I too am confident in my decision. DS1 is just starting 4 year old now. It did hit me the other day that he will be 18 the whole year of Year 12 but we'll deal with that we when get there. I feel the decision we've made is to enable him to get to that stage hopefully with a little more ease in his capabilities and understanding.
DS2 is 3 in March and i no where near feel that he is capable of 3 year old kinder this year. I put an enrolment app in for him for 2013 when he turned two and i feel very confident with that decision also.
Enjoy the 4 year old kind year. Everyone tells me what a dreadful year it is but i look forward to it for him and for me :)