But a child with CF isn't considered "special needs" in the educational setting, Autism allocates aides according to IQ, so for my DD her allocated aide time was 5 hours per week... not enough for one who can't cope in a group of 30....
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But a child with CF isn't considered "special needs" in the educational setting, Autism allocates aides according to IQ, so for my DD her allocated aide time was 5 hours per week... not enough for one who can't cope in a group of 30....
I totally agree with you. 5 hours a week is just too little time. I understand CF isn't considered 'special needs', but the student with downs syndrome getting a full time aide suprised me, not that I don't think it is necessary, but just because our kids get nowhere near that.:
I have worked as a teacher of special needs kids both in special schools and in mainstream schools. One school I worked at was lucky enough to have two DS boys in the same year. They each got 1/2 time teachers aids which meant they could be in the same class and share an aid full time. I taught them over the years as they progressed through primary school. They are both happily at the local high now. I don't think I saw them getting picked on or bullied but they did annoy other kids at times and sometimes had to be reminded they had a responsibility to behave fairly with others. On the whole the kids in their classes where highly supportive, ensured they were integrated and made sure they modified games and activities to include them.
I support and like integration of kids who have special needs and I agree some are better off at schools with facilities that can cater to their needs better but most, given the funding, geography, teacher support and encouragement, facilities and with positive support from their parents are waaay better off in mainstream.
I have also taught children with behaviour that is unmanageable in mainstream schools. I believe those who have constantly been violent to teachers and other children cannot stay in mainstream school and do need an alternate environment for their education. Re-integration of these students with special needs is very complicated and a whole other mainstream inclusion story!
I'm sorry if I have caused you offence Christy. I'm trying to be more eloquent but just not finding the words today so I'll just leave it there and not dig a deeper hole for myself!
I am in NSW and students with intellectual disabilities get next to no integration time. The student I had who was Blind was soooooooooo well looked after! It was like chalk and cheese. I also have taught soemone with Muscular Dystrophy and I didnt have aid time but my classroom was completely made over with a ramp and access to a toilet as well.
LuluB- I dont think you have been out of line at all and I can see you are a very compassionate woman who does genuinely care :hug:
Also FWIW I am not even trained in Special needs and have taught a lot of special needs students. It is really really really hard. So incredibly draining yet it is not the integrated students fault it is the lack of funding and support from the government that makes it difficult to integrate students successfully.
The government was all for integration to save money funding special needs schools, so they pushed integration. Then they realised how expensive it is to properly cater for these students in mainstream schools so they cut the funding....leaving a BIG problem for all involved. Most of the trainjing I have done in special needs is my own internet research. My school cant affoprd to send me on a course on each specific special need as that money gets taken out of integration budget which then means less aid time as the aids are paid by the integration budget the school is allocated.
In my first semester with a student with down syndrome, I spent so much time trying to cater for her that the rest of my class had their marks slip. I was horrified when I saw that they had made little to no improvement in their mid semester assessments. I knew I had to devote more time to the other 25 students in my class and made a promise to actually be their teacher as well. Their marks began to climb as soon as I did this but it meant my integrated student didnt have much of my time. It is a really hard juggle.
Again, it is not that I think children shouldnt be integrated it is just that as teachers we need more support to make it work for everyone.
My kids attend a small private school, approximately 230 students. Most of the families in our school community are very involved and supportive - I'm very proud of the example we, as a community, set for our children.
When my son was in 4 year old kinder (at the school, a full time program) a little girl joined his class. She has older siblings at the school and so I was already very familiar with the child. She has a global developmental delay and quite high level needs. Her intellectual disability is greater than her physical challenges. I will be honest - I questioned whether a main stream school was the best place for this child. I wondered whether her parent's desire to include their daughter was based on what was best for the child or on her mother's inability to accept the reality of her daughter's condition - an inability her mother still speaks very openly of. I worried that she would not be accepted by the other kids, that she would feel hurt or rejected.
She started in four year old kinder, when she was 6. The kids had questions... why does she talk funny? Why is she here when she's already 6? Why does she make those noises? Kids don't have much tact... But the questions were honest, and they were asked without malice.
My DS is now in Grade 1. The little girl is very much a part of his class. She is involved and accepted and loved by her classmates. When she needs assistance, be it physical or with a mental challenge, her classmates don't hesitate to help her. The wider community, including the kids in secondary school, simply accept that this little girl is one of them. Different, but the same. She has not faced any bullying and her friends wouldn't stand for it if she did! When one child picks another to assist with a task, she is picked just as often as any other kid.
The joy this girl experiences coming to school is evident on her happy face and in her cheerful greeting each morning. Academically, she has surpassed expectations. She has a full time aide, the government funding is topped up by the school. The parents of all the children in the class feel lucky to have an additional (highly over qualified!) staff member in the classroom with our kids.
I had my concerns about the fate of this little mite in a main stream school, but I was wrong. Our children have proven me wrong.
No offense caused Luluhb, I was just trying to bridge the gap between what you said and what meow said...
I went to a mainstream high school that has a special needs class. The SN kids usually joined the rest of us for lunch & recess & TBH, I never saw any bullying.
The ones who were capable joined in on games of handball & they were all part of the school.
One of my best friends older sister was CP. Limited communication & movement. She passed away from pneumonia at 14 & the school was very well represented at her funeral.
I worry that DD2 might have trouble, because she's a very touchy feely kid who can cross boundaries & have no idea, even after being told, but she's very well liked by all the kids, because she's always happy with lots of energy :)
Everyone has the potential to bullied. I think more effort gets put into bullying 'normal' kids because most bullying is due to jelousy & competition.
My DD has a rare genetic condition, and currently attends an early intervention program at our local ECDP. I am 100% for inclusion, but only where feasible. I have not considered for one second sending my dd to mainstream school, because realistically its a bad idea for everyone (her,the teacher,the other students). Her prep class will be 6 or 7 kids with similar abilities with a teacher and a teacher aide. I could never leave her in a class of 20 or so kids.....in saying that, I'm definitely in the minority of parents 'happy' to send my kid to special school. She needs help toileting,is non verbal,needs help eating and cannot walk. Our short term goals are for her to learn these things.
I have heard of some parents being knocked back from special schools and being forced into mainstream schooling with some special ed time, even if they didn't feel it was the right choice. Whereas a mainstream schools cannot tell you that they can't handle having your child there. When they cut funding for the prep program from where dd is now we took it to the disabilities minister with other parents and education qld she told me repeatedly dd would be welcomed into any local primary school. How on earth is that fair on her or the teacher (or my stress levels lol) . I did however see bullying of disabled kids when I was younger, nothing serious, and not until older. Little kids are generally awesome with dd and very inquisitive about things, and love having someone different around
I forgot to add too, that although my dd is considered severely intellectually and physically disabled, if in a mainstream school couldn't have an aide full time :(
I really don't think I've missed the point of your post. I can see the positive things you are trying to say, I really can but there is so much going on with the tone of your post that I skipped straight to addressing that. I would hope you can reread what you have written, have a good think about the discourses that you hold about 'disability' and perhaps consider this an opportunity to learn and grow. The same goes for many of the replying posters.
I am an early childhood teacher and have had to spend time in my work and study really looking at the core of my thoughts and words- even 'positive' words can create and 'us and them' culture and place you in the position of 'power'. I am also the parent of a child with autism so I doubly find it offensive that my child could be discussed as the cute school pet that's nice to have around- he offers value in his own right that is not based upon his ability.
All that said I DO understand that an inclusive educational environment doesn't support the needs of all children and some children do best in a special education environment. I'm not for a moment declaring that my son has to be in a mainstream environment just because I want him there. But I'm not going into his educational situation because this isn't about him or me. That wasn't really the point of my post. I was responding to the underlying tone of your post, and subsequent posters. It would really take an essay to probably discuss this enough but I do hope perhaps you all take some reflection and consider the power position you place yourself in.
I think the key word is 'inclusion'. It is what we should be striving for, for every child. Of course there has to be varying degrees, but we should be aiming to see beyond the disability.
Christy - I understand where your friend was coming from, he/she was saying your daughter is a persone first, and someone with Autism second. I can also totally understand your viewpoint too, and it is awesome that you that you accept her for who she is. Many parents of children that have extra needs never get to that place.
ECDP is a beautiful thing Ellasmummy! We are fortunate enough for our DS to go two half days a week and they are making great gains with him. My son is now participating in a group of his peers and enjoying the benefits of a very low ratio (5 kids:3 teachers). Aiden is being encouraged to TT, to face his sensory issues, to learn the power of words (when previously he was only making nonsense noises and saying mum he can now say 20 words in context) and learn how to behave in a classroom like scenario. This is invaluable and we will be using this to ready DS for school. The last semester he is there before prep they will be teaching him about his new school and visiting the school to reduce the stress associated with change for him. All SN kids should have access to programs like this to help get their bearings and make the most of an education.
I don't know how it works in other states, but at my school, which has a high number of ASD kids, ID, as well as having DS children in the past, has SSO's (aides) with special needs kids for around 4 hours per day every day, including lunch time. It varies on how much funding the child is receiving and how the school wish to allocate that funding with the SSO.
Some schools can use one staff member for 2 children for.eg and have that staff member rotate through a few children and can be there throughout the day. At our school most SSO's finish after lunch so the students don't have an aide for afternoon classes (a few that need it do). In Victoria the funding process is a 4-5 stage process and takes a lot of assessment, writing of reports and diagnosis to get anywhere.
Maybe it is the schools I have worked at, or the nature of primary schools being younger kids, as well as sharing a grade all day every day but we rarely see bullying of SN kids - doesn't mean it doesn't happen and kids that tease and bully tend to do it to lots of kids not just SN kids ITMS. I do wonder how some will go at high school Lu - we have one boy with ASD in grade 6 and going to mainstream high school and he will not cope. I can say that categorically. His parents want him to go to a mainstream high school, but he will really struggle. As with many kids with ASD change in routine absolutely throws him for a six so Im not sure how the funding works as now we have an aide to follow him when he takes off from not coping which is a number of times a week.
I guess what I am saying, is that from a teachers perspective is that inclusion can work wonderfully well and is the ultimate aim regardless of the disability but there are obviously exceptions in all cases and even within the school I am teaching at - having had verbal abuse, physical abuse, wooden mallets thrown at me as well as the disruption to other students and class time in general - at times it is a really fine line. (and yes this can all happen with non SN students but in my time at my current school, all the things i have mentioned have been from SN kids).
Meow -I really feel that you are reading a lot into the "tone" - I think it's been said time and again on BB, that tone is something that will vary from one reader to another. You are picking up on something that many others aren't and can see that Lulu is saying what a great job the school is doing at integrating SN kids as well as wondering what will happen in the future, which is a real worry considering so many schools have bullying issues.:
but there is so much going on with the tone of your post.......doubly find it offensive that my child could be discussed as the cute school pet that's nice to have around- he offers value in his own right that is not based upon his ability.
I have reread the original post as well as my response and I'm sorry Meow, I can't see the "underlying tone" that you were talking about. The truth is that the needs of these children are going to be different to the needs of their classmates. I don't think that's setting up an "us and them" atmosphere, it's simply the truth. It's also true that a lot of mainstream schools don't have the funding or capabilities to be able to give SN kids all that they need and deserve. That is not saying that SN kids are a burden, just that schools need to be better equipped and supported in order to be able to provide truly inclusive education for ALL kids.
Saying that other students gain much from having a child with CF or Downs in their class is so true! I can't see how that is turning these two children into "classroom pets". Rather it's acknowledging that inclusion is a two way street- everybody gains. Inclusion shouldn't be about pretending that the SN of the child doesn't exist and treating everyone exactly the same. It should be about embracing the SN as part of that child. In my opinion as a primary teacher, ALL children have certain special needs and it is my job to find out what they are. Mary may be hearing impaired, Joey needs visual cues to help his understanding, Tommy needs a gentle atmosphere in the classroom due to a disruptive home life. I embrace these kids because of who they are (and disabilities are part of that) not in spite of who they are. It helps nobody to ignore the fact that their needs are different and to treat them all the same.
I am all for inclusion. As someone who works in the disability sector, who now strives for the inclusion of adults, when you look back that exclusion, that isolation starts at school. Then we spent the rest of our lives trying to include. Australia is backwards compared to other countries. We should be finding a way to include all children rather than teach our kids that if you're different or 'special' you go to special class. All children are different and unique regardless of disability.
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My son will be attending private school where they a) have a teachers aide in the class every day from start to finish time and b) they are already organising funding through the Cath Ed Dept to get an additional teachers aide in a few days a week who is specifically trained to deal with ASD kids for him. They dont get automatically allocated funding to do whatever with like majority public schools, they have to apply and be approved; as well as specify exactly what help they need so the child is getting the right help for THEM.The school has gone above and beyond already for us and he isnt even starting til next year! I got a much better response from them about my concerns (that I raised at Ds1's prep interview because Im not sending the boys to two different schools) than I did from the public school he was zoned for. The school even has their own affiliated speech and OT therapists who assess all the classes on a regular basis to try and minimise the gap between neurotypical kids and kids who have difficulties in these area's; ASD and non ASD alike.
I guess thats just our luck to find an amazing private school and be able to afford it. If Ds2 took a spot in one of the few SN schools up here, if would mean one less spot for a SN child who truly needs it.