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Thread: VERY VERY intimate, possibly offensive question

  1. #1

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    Question VERY VERY intimate, possibly offensive question

    **WARNING: DISCUSSING SEXUAL CONTENT! SENSITIVE TOPIC - MODS PLEASE DELETE IF INAPPROPRIATE**

    Hi.

    I am not sure if it is appropriate to ask the question I want to ask. So I will begin by saying that this is indeed a serious question. I have no desire to begins debates about it, I simply am seeking the answer to a question that was raised whilst discussing this between friends IRL tonight.
    I am not intending this to be offensive or too sensitive a subject, but understand that it may be taken that way, so I apologise in advance.
    I am not a Christian/Catholic/Protestant so am unsure if this will be acceptable, so please do not feel uncomfortable.

    The question is of quite an explicit sexual nature, and as such (after much consideration) I have decided that I will not ask it in the open forum. It is in regards to the actual teachings of the church, not personal choices, etc, a question of doctrine, so again please remember I am not trying to be controversial.



    If there is someone out there that would be happy to answer a hypothetical question about the actual doctrine of the church when it comes to particular sexuality/sexual activity, can you please PM me, or reply here so that I may ask you privately.

    I am interested in all denominations, as I am aware that they all may differ, however am essentially seeking the Word of the Bible here.

    Thanks for reading, please disregard if this is too confronting.

    TIA
    Alexis

  2. #2

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    Hmm....I probably wouldn't know the answer to your question but now I want to know! rofl. Maybe you should just ask a mod if the question is ok so we can all learn from it??

  3. #3

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    I'm not a Christian but in Islam we have a saying that there is no modesty in matters of religion which basically means that it's better to ask an embarresing question and get the answer than blunder along in ignorance for fear of embarressment or offence.
    I could be wrong but I assume that most Christians would feel the same way.
    I would suggest that you post your question here and if the mod team recieve any complaints about it we will move it to AO.

  4. #4

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    Default Perhaps this should be moved to AO...?

    All right...but please remember this is a serious question, not a p!ss take!

    We were talking the other day about "Brokeback Mountain" A friendof mine hadn't seen it, so we rented it, he watched it, and said he didn't know what all the fuss was about.
    I said that it may have had something to do with the gay sex in it, he said he didn't understand why that should be a problem.
    I replied that perhaps to all of the "devout" Christians and the like may have had something different to say about it...
    The conversation then moved to the US Christians, US censorship and media, etc etc...
    Then my partner, who hadnt really be in on the convo chimmed in with "So is sodomy only wrong when its done to blokes? Or is it a sin to sodomise your wife too?"

    So then we actually thought about it, and none of us knew. So I couldn't thin of anywhere else to ask people who wouldn't think I was a weirdo, but here.

    So, my probably inappropriate question is, Is sodomy a sin, if you sodomise your wife, or a woman?


    Hope I'm not being offensive to anyone, it is a serious question. Like I said, I am not looking a personal comment, more the aspect of teaching in the church, if indeed there is one at all, iykwim

    TIA

    Chloe: I really like that saying too I'll have to remember it.
    Last edited by LimeSlice; April 13th, 2008 at 12:26 PM.

  5. #5

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    My understanding of Catholic doctrine is that sodomy is considered a sin, period. I want to make clear this is not my own personal belief, despite the fact that I am Catholic.

    The Catholic Church believes the purpose of sex is for procreation. Therefore any sexual act that, by it's very nature, cannot result in procreation is a sin - eg masterbation, homosexual sex, sodomy, contraception etc.

    That's my understanding of their doctrine anyway, and if I'm wrong or have misinterpreted, am happy to be told otherwise. They are also fundamentally against the use of multiple egg-pickup/mutiple fertilisation during IVF but from my signature, you'll see I've had to come to terms with my religion and my personal situation not always being on the same page.

  6. #6

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    Interesting question lime slice... thanks for having the nerve to ask.

    I'm not in a possie to answer cuase im in the same boat as you and i am more inetrested in other answers, and after hearing sushi's response, i now have another q if i may ask you sushi....

    Seeing as you know of your fertility problems etc, is it then a sin for you and your hubby to make love seeing as you know there is no chanve of procreation occuring??? i have often thought about the issues with IVF etc, but until i read that answer i never thought of that side of it.. IYKWIM. Sorry if its off topic, but i am just curious.

    TIA

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    oh good question starbrtight!

    it really is quite interesting

  8. #8

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    Okay,

    my understanding of this is that I committed the sin by having my tubes tied in the first place (sterilisation is a sin) but it is not a sin for my DH and I to have sex because we cannot possibly know if conception is completely impossible, despite the medical profession believing it is. There are many instances of 'miracle' pregnancies for women who were told they had no chance of falling pregnant, so as long as we are not trying AVOID falling pregnant, eg with the use of contraceptives, we are not committing a sin.

    I wonder though about women who have lost their wombs due to a hysterectomy, like my mum. But again, I think as long as you are open to the possibility of falling pregnant (even if it's medically impossible) you're not committing a sin.

  9. #9

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    interesting...thanks sushee!

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    thanks for that Sushi!!

    Keep hoping for that miracle

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    Hi guys, I'm a Christian, I go to the uniting church and I would say I'm pretty liberal in my doctrine.
    You'll find a huge range of answers to this question out there and the reason for that is because the bible doesn't actually say anything about it.
    I won't go into my thoughts on homosexual sex here, but in regard to sex between a husband and wife, I have always been taught that sex was created for their enjoyment. In our faith, we are not taught that sex is just for pro-creation - it is worth so much more than that. So my understanding of it is that as long as the husband and wife are honouring each other and acting in a loving manner, they will be doing God's will by enjoying each others' bodies however they like, and this is a gift from God as a part of marriage.
    HTH a little, and as I said, this is my belief - others may differ.

  12. #12

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    Like Snacks, I'm coming from the protestant side of things...

    We are taught that sex is a gift from God, and intended for pleasure as well as procreation. So as far as I'm concerned, if his wife does not object and is not pressured/coerced in any way, it's just another way of obtaining enjoyment from sex and is therefore not a problem/sin in any way.

    The issue of homosexuality is entirely different, but I will not enter into a discussion of this in this thread.

    BW

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    Limeslice: well done having the courage to ask your question

    From what I recall from reading the bible: Ideally a person avoids sex completely. However God acknowledges that only a very small percentage of people will be able to achieve that (mainly religious teachers, nuns etc) so then the next best thing is to get married... then sex is fine (the Roman Catholics (ie the Pope) I think are the most strict about not using contraception like condoms etc many other Christian churches are more liberal. So sex outside marriage is generally accepted to be a sin with the Christian church... likewise Sodomy, bestiality, necrophilia (sex with dead people) there is a part of the bible which lists all the acts which are wrong. I can't remember which Book though... maybe Google. However there is a story about Job who sells his child-daughter as a sex slave. This gets a fair bit of air-play in discussions about the nature of approved sex in the bible. I personally think that the story is given as an analogy rather than stating that it is something ok to do. Fundamentalists, I think often give Christianity a bad name like they do in most religions.

    My Christianity "mentor", C.S Lewis wrote a very good piece about "Sin". He likened it to a set of classroom rules. He said that avoiding sin is the most desirable outcome however God knows that this is not possible... even for Saints. But he has given us this list anyhow, just to aspire to because they benefit the majority. However he (God) accepts that just like classroom rules if sometimes you break a rule and are sent to his office there is a good chance, if your argument is strong enough, that you can both agree to bending the rules (ie walking home from school in the middle of the day because you are needed at home for an emergency). So I apply this to homosexual men... if they have a good relationship with God and feel able to approach God and discuss their situation revealing the fact that their hearts are pure then God will grant them "special-leave" on the rule of sodomy. Sorry if this sounds a bit high-and-mighty of me... it's just my thoughts... I have no authority.

    So regarding sodomising your partner: I think that if it is done as part of a loving and honest relationship then the chances are very high that God will over look it. To the man who cheats on his wife and sodomises another person I think will be judged more firmly. I think God's main concern is that we can be the best we can be... and that to apply blanket rules over humanity isn't going to work. I think that if people think it is wrong but go ahead with sodomy to please their partner then they should reconsider... it a bit like the part in the bible about eating certain foods. It basically says that you should follow your heart. if you feel that eating Pork is wrong then don't do it... for you it will be a sin... if you can eat it with a clear conscience then go for it. I don't eat red meat for this reason. My deepest intuitive response to eating mammals is that it is wrong... because it would be hypocritical for me to benefit from an act (killing the animal) that i couldn't do myself... however I do not apply this rule to other people. Fortunately my DH feels exactly the same way about eating mammals (we both haven't eaten red meat since we left home (me at age 18, him at age 20)... so for us (because we would feel guilt at eating it... it would be a sin to). But as I said, neither of us apply this to other people.

    If I find the part in the Bible which outlines the "ideal" rules that apply to sexuality and sodomy I'll post.
    Last edited by Bathsheba; April 13th, 2008 at 04:27 PM.

  14. #14

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    Bath, it might be Leviticus. I recall it being full of does and don'ts.

    ETA - Leviticus 18 - USCCB - NAB - Leviticus 18

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    Thanks Dach, yep that explains it. I'll look for the food one too as I think that is a good parallel. God has given us freewill but that doesn't excuse us from not heeding (ignoring) our intuition when it comes to all these personal decisions. Just my thoughts.

    This is kind of what i mean:

    This entire chapter is about helping the meat eater and the vegetarian get along within the assembly of the church. It is Paul's instruction toward being careful to not offend another in food or drink. For Example: The Bible does condemn drunkenness, but does not condemn drinking wine or other alcoholic beverages. (Deuteronomy 14:26) Now there are Christians that drink and those who do not. One who does, should be careful to not offend another by drinking in his presence. Even though the Bible does not teach against drinking, it does teach against offending your brother.

    Paul is saying in principle, that the pursuit of the Kingdom of God is MORE THAN eating and drinking. It is about loving and showing concern for your brethren. Likewise, a Christian who eats meat is not to shake the faith of one who does not. It you were to invite a vegetarian to your home, the Christian principle is to serve vegetables only. If you were to eat with a vegetarian brother in a restaurant, you should order a vegetable plate as well, in order that you don't offend your weaker brother in the faith. Because he is weak does not mean he is not in the faith of Christ. Notice Verse 15 -"For if BECAUSE OF FOOD your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died."
    Last edited by Bathsheba; April 13th, 2008 at 05:02 PM.

  16. #16

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    I think the food one is Leviticus too....
    Leviticus 11
    Although I have no idea if there are passages that abrogate the laws laid down in Leviticus.....

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    Interesting thread, and i don't mean to stop the discussion, but i had a giggle when i read this bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bathsheba View Post
    there is a part of the bible which lists all the acts which are wrong. I can't remember which Book though... maybe Google.
    I hadn't heard much about the book of Google before.

    K

  18. #18

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    In Islam we have Sheik Google - if you consult him for long enough you can find almost any ruling you want.....

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