Elimination Communication General Discussion

Hi Mayaness!
thanks for the tip about the pot, I'll keep my eye out for one!

Hi Bec!
our DD gets a bit of a "dance" up and fidgety when she wants to pee. But she also does this when she wants a burp so it is confusing - and I always get the wrong one when feeding! I have no idea between the "I need a poo now" and "I'm just doing a load of farts and will poo sometime today" which is a bit frustrating, because I put her on the pot for what seems ages and/or numerous times, only to have her later poo in her nappy! Apart from that one poo caught on our second day, I haven't been able to catch one since!

Today went all "out the window" as she was all miserable after having her needles yesterday, I am hoping tomorrow we will be back on track.

This general chatter thread is fairly new, and there was an informal one before this one was created, where me and a couple of others talk about the early days of EC'ing. Just have a look through the threads on ECing here to find them :)
Ingrid Bauer's book Natural Infant Hygiene is a most excellent start for the journey, as well as subscribing to Tribal Baby's website for the free info and tips.
Above all, it's about enhancing your relationship with your child, not perfecting clean toileting ;) It's very rewarding when you do 'get it right', and it's not the be all and end all to catch every single motion.

Mayness, I just re-read my post and it didn't come out at all the way it was meant to!
let me re-phrase:

our DD gets a bit of a "dance" up and fidgety when she wants to pee. But she also does this when she wants a burp so it is confusing - and I seem to mis-interpret her signs quite a bit when feeding. But if it is just during play-time, I am much better at picking up on her pee signs.
I am still finding it hard to tell the difference between her signs for "I need a poo now" and "I'm just doing a load of farts and will poo sometime today" which is a bit frustrating for me, because I just seem to keep mis-reading those signs. I find I put her on the pot way too frequently and for too long thinking she needs a poo when really she is just working on a fart, and then I consider it "declined" and so put her nappy back on her, only to see her make those faces again, and think well she has just been on the pot for 2 mins or was just there 5 mins ago, so ignore it, but it really was a poo sign that time. So apart from that one poo caught on our second day (by pure chance), I haven't been able to catch one (ie read her signs correctly) yet!
So I guess at the moment we are probably doing mostly well-timed "pottytunities" with some success while I still learn her signs

I hope that makes more sense!

My post was more general, Milly, not a direct response to your post :) The signs will become clearer and/or you'll get to know them better! Seriously, I read the Bauer book and it was my bible.

Hi ECer's, long time no check-in (oops!)
Good to see new folks are finding out about EC. How's it going, Milly and Bec? I found in the early months that my daughter had really obvious poo cues (grunting and making her 'poopy face' - kind of a frown), but I could not ever tell when she was going to wee. So all my wee catches were just timing. I don't know if I just wasn't tuning in well enough, or if some babies just don't signal wees?
We were going ok for quite a while, but at the moment we are not. DD is now 18 months and hasn't pooed on the potty for about a month, and we're only getting the occasional wee. She doesn't want to sit on it, especially when she needs to go. So frustrating, as she has now started grabbing her crotch when she needs to wee so I know that she knows - but I'll put her on the potty, she'll squirm off it and not go, and then when she's standing on the floor will wee, then look down and say 'popo' (which means wee, poo, and potty). And I am so over cleaning up poopy nappies - she was so consistent with pooing on the potty, and now won't! She started making signals anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes before the poo actually emerges, so we can't sit her on the potty for that whole time or she gets bored. So we started waiting a bit before putting her on the potty, and sometimes we'd be too late, and sometimes we'd still be too early and she'd get bored of the potty so go back in a nappy and do it there, or we would let her run round outside nappy-free and she'd suddenly poo on the grass without enough warning to get the potty under her. Now this week she seems to have stopped signalling poos at all, and I have no idea why!
So there's my tale of woe... anyone have any ideas on what I can try?

Awww, Jess, how frustrating for you :(
My MiL, on the other hand, is over EC, because DD is at the stage where she knows a wee is coming, but doesn't always say something and leaves her wee on the carpet. I'm sure if she were 3 and we were toilet training her in the mainstream way MiL would be more laid back about it, but she's so confronted by the nappy-free-ness. She can't be bothered 'reading' DD, even though it's mostly easy, and if I leave DD with her she'll put a nappy on her and not check it...even when she knows DD has done a poo in it...even if I'm two hours away... :(
On the upside, we're moving out of here very soon AND DD looks for the potty to use for poo! Another upside is that she's also sitting on the loo to do both wee and poo, using a child ring. Once we have a step she'll probably always look for the loo.
I bought some Kmart training pants, but I think it will be easier to use the peapods with a wash cloth inside, on the larger button settings. Cheaper, too!
Jess, do you think your DD would sit on the loo with a step stool to rest her feet on?

Ugh Mayaness, that must be hard to deal with - I would have thought that a grandmother would understand the importance of not leaving a bub to sit in poo! Especially if your DD is going well with EC anyway. I'm very impressed that she's sitting on the loo at 15 months. I might have to look into child rings, thanks for the suggestion.

Hi guys,

Mayaness, how frustrating for you...

OK so i am after a bit of advice - mainly from you Mayaness as i know you have done this, i just cant find your old tread.

DD was part time EC (when she wasnt at daycare) and i had the support of Mum and DH who also cared for her at times and were happy to have her nappy free... Anyway, she was totally out of nappies/free from accidents by about 18mths BUT night times she still wore a nappy.

This summer i decided that it was time to get her out of the night nappies, particularly as she was dry several nights a week and vocally wanted to be out of them., So we tried and she did really well, one maybe 2 wet bed/week. Recently she has changed bedrooms and beds due to the babies EDD rapidly approcahing. We have had no problems with sleeping or the room or the bed (loads of prep work - weeks of talking about it) but she is wet EVERY night, not only this, she is not waking up when she does it anymore (she is cold when she wakes).

Other than the bed, she has refused day sleeps lately, but still rests, i am thinking that this possibly is impacting on her ability to wake for a wee (which she had done on occasions)

So basically im asking, should i stop what i am doing? any other suggestions to try? (she will be 3 in 2 weeks and has a very good understanding of it all and is upset every night when she discovers she is wet)

Thanks

Sammiejane - I had a similar thing with my DD, i.e. she was out of nappies during the day and mostly dry at night, but for a period of time just before she turned 3, she seemed to "regress" and have an accident every night for a while. What we did was:
1) Put her on the potty before she went to bed.
2) She would usually wee at the same time each night, so for a few nights we woke her around that time and put her on the potty.
After about a week of this, she started waking for a wee during the night herself.
HTH.

THanks Starfish - i was thinking of this, but also wondered if waking them up was sort of outside ECing?
I was up a million times last night last night to wee myself, so each time i checked her to see when she was wet - at 5 am she was still dry but by 7 she was wet, so it is only very early hours of the morning that she is wetting now.
She has a wee in between books before bed (so she can have her last book then lights off) and she always does one.

I think that i will check on her again for the next few nights to see if it is always an early morning wee that she does and then wake her closer to this time (so she might be able to recognise that she needs a wee instead of waking her when i go to bed when there is no 'feeling' of needing to wee)

Thanks again for your response.

Sorry I've been MIA lately, we've been moving to the farm and I just got my horse here yesterday (woo hoo!).
My girl will now maybe twice or 3 times a week go a whole night dry, even if she has a feed once or twice. Otherwise, it's maybe once overnight, then once on first waking, maybe a sleep and if not then another wee in about 10 mins. What she's been doing the last couple of mornings is getting fidgety, climbing down off the bed and walking to the caravan door to try to open it. I'll realise what she's doing, say "potty", she'll step down into the annex and go sit on the potty! I'm so pleased about this :)
She's hardly wearing nappies now, and I've pulled out the main boosters from her Mini Lala's and Peapods and replaced them with either the smaller booster, or some other shaped terry inserts that a friend gave me, so that I can pull them down like undies. She's wearing pants that are 000 because they sit like three quarter pants and fit her bum ;)
We still have misses, but far, far more wins, and it's even easier now that we're out of MiL's house and in the van, on the farm!
I'm still following everyone's journeys here, I love the updates!

Wow Mayaness, that is awesome!

hi ladies!

Mayaness - yay for being on the farm!

a little bit of an update. somedays we have been doing really well - our better days have been around 50% success, but our not so good days are still not so good. I have learnt that DD doesn't like the heat, and her general irritability on those days means lots of misses. And teething has been fun too. But I also have learned lots about her routine as well. She generally won't wee during a day time nap - she will most times wake up for that, but she will wee during the night. I still do part-time nappies, and really only have her nappy-less when she is playing on her mat. I just don't trust that I will get her quick enough out of the sling. I did think about taking her potty with us on an outing today, and then thought the better of it, and thought I could just hold her over a nappy, but to be honest, it is so hard just driving around, trying to find a park, walk everywhere, run errrands, and then in amongst all of that to try and find the almost non-existant parents rooms, that I just gave up, and then this evening after we came home, she wasn't interested in the potty. Hopefully tomorrow we can start afresh.
Did any of you ladies have success with EC when out?

Hi ladies!
Just wondering if 20 months is too late to start EC? We were catching morning wee's and the odd bedtime wee but he seems to have gone off the potty and refuses to sit on it or if he does sit on it he gets off 5 seconds later and only go in his nappy or on the floor. :dunno:

I don't think it's ever too late to start. Most kids seem to go through phases where you catch lots of wees (and even some poos), and then as they get older, it all seems to go out the window. I don't know why this happens, but it happened to us, and from what I hear, it seems to be a pretty common occurence... So I say stay with it. This phase is just temporary. He will go back on the potty soon, so I would recommend that you persist, but don't stress out too much. Ultimately a week or two of "failed" days, is nothing in the long run...

It's been going on for a couple of months... I've tried not offering it for a while/ offering it and just leaving it when he's not interested/ pushing it a little. Had him in cloth for the last 2 days lots of nappy free time and he's still refusing. he'll sit there get up and go pee on the carpet. He *knows* when he's going, he can stop if he wants to and does if I tell him to. but still wont sit on the darn potty :wall:... maybe this would be better off in TT discussion...

20 months isn't too late for EC. What you may need to do, though, is do the easiest part first - night-continence.
If you can sleep with DS in his bed at night for a while and be aware of his wrigglings, you will catch more wees than if you try to go for day continence.
While we sleep we release a hormone that inhibits urine production, so it's in lighter sleep that children rouse and wet themselves. If you can catch that moment to offer a potty, you'll find more successes that build up and give you both more confidence.
For us: long weekend in Bendigo, not one nappy used, and only two floor incidents at the motel (both times, right near the potty, doh!) - all weekend we spent the days by the fire brigade running track with no nappy on, and DD held on till I could take her to the toilet, where she'd do a big long wee :) I'm sure there were disapproving looks because she was wearing dresses and when they lifted up she was nekked, but I knew that as soon as I put a pair of training pants on, I'd slacken off and she'd end up doing a wee...so I left everything off, and she remained dry. Not a single smelly nappy to bring home, yay!
She's waking up in the morning and able to get down off the bed (when I say 'potty'), open the door of the caravan, let herself down (prompted by 'safe safe', so that she goes down backwards) and go over to her potty for her morning wee and poo. It's starting to pay off, all this intensive cue-catching - so when people say "oh, that's so easy that you dont' have to use nappies", I tell them that it's been an intensive 17 months!

yay on the no nappies Mayaness!

question for you ladies, or more of a "suggestions please"...
We have HUGE issues with sleeping (or more precisely, not sleeping). DD takes alot of input to get to go sleep.
Everyone and everything I read is telling me to: dream feed, and settle her right away if she wakes and stirs during the night.
But I have been unwrapping her (as she still sleeps wrapped) and removing her nappy (which may often be wet) and pottying her (and she often goes) and then putting it all back on again. The problem is that this process often wakes her if she was only drowsy in the beginning. But if I leav her in the wet nappy, she often grizzles for quite a while anyway.
Also, because she takes so long to get down to sleep, the "settling" time often needs another potty-time, or nappy change - and again, both of these are quite stimulating for her, so then we have to start over with settling again. Settling can frequently take more than 90 mins, which is 2 or even sometimes 3 potty/nappies, so 2 or 3 lots of "razzing up" / stimulation.
Is it possible to continue to do EC and settling, or will one be sacraficed while working on the other as it currently is?

I've been wanting to start EC for a while now, I was waiting until DS was on solids though as he used to only do one poo a week. Now he is eating, it is all becoming more regular and I have been able to catch his poos in the toilet three times now. He is funny though, he hasn't done a poo in a nappy for ages, he only goes when he has nappy free time in the mornings. I haven't been able to catch any wees yet. Any tips on how to do this? Isaac is a very heavy night wetter, and during the day I can never tell when he is about to go.

I would begin with catching the night wees - easiest ones to catch because they're not up and around and giving confused signals ;) At night they'll be asleep, then after a while they'll start to wriggle and maybe wake - you want to get them over a receptacle before the crying about being awake, though they may cry once you're asking them to wee in a potty. Just that this is the time they'll definitely have a wee to do.
We have achieved night continence! Wee before bed, then nothing (unless there's something else going on like teething or a cold) until morning, when I say "shishi" to her and she goes over to the potty. Shishi is what a few Asian countries use to cue for the potty, before making a 'pssss' sound - I had read that and then made a friend at Kinder who is Japanese and this is what she says to her DD :) My DD knows now, and if she doesn't need to she'll say "nononono", which is very cute!
So, 19 months and night continent. Day continent, too - we're in undies!

Milly - I see where you are coming from, but I have no advice sorry! It's all new to me.

Thanks Mayaness, how do you tell when they are about to wee when they are asleep? DS always has a very wet nappy after he wakes, and so far I haven't noticed any signs that he is weeing. Except he sometimes has a look on his face when he is actually weeing, there doesn't seem to be any signs beforehand. I sleep with him, and he has two or three feeds during the night which obviously generates more wees. He doesn't really wake properly for the feeds, and we always fall asleep feeding so I am a bit reluctant to turn those feed times into 'awake' times by getting him up and undressed in the cold.

Or is it just about timing? This morning after his first feed for the day I held him over the toilet (I must buy a potty) but there was nothing. I like the shishi word, I think I will use that :)

I bed share, too, and that makes it easier to do - I was reading Ingrid Bauer's book on night-continence and realised all the windows of opportunity I had lost with DS and that's when I hopped back into his bed (he'd moved onto his own bed by this stage, after more than 2 years) and waited for all those 'hindsight' cues! It worked - he would stir a little and then I offered the potty. Yes, it started off by waking him, and even when he got upset he wasn't 'fully' awake - I'd put his nappy back on (before I took it off for bed times) and we'd curl up together again for a feed and he'd drop off.
I remember that at the time my SiL kept on about how her DD was dry at night (she's a month older than DS and had been claiming this for months). After reading about ECing I knew that she wasn't truly night continent because what they were doing was withholding liquids after a certain time - she was dehydrated overnight, not night continent. They couldn't really understand why DS had become night continent, using the potty and quickly the loo while I was still feeding overnight and giving him drinks till bedtime.
So, just little body movements when they rouse from deep sleep into a lighter sleep - it's in lighter sleep that they wet the nappy. So, yes, it's about timing and the body movements that help identify the time they rouse from deep sleep. In deep sleep the hormone is released to inhibit urine production. The Bauer book is really the best reference for this information - Natural Infant Hygiene it's called.

Thanks Mayaness, I am going to try to get my hands on Ingrid Bauer's book.

I still haven't been able to catch a wee. No signs that I can see, maybe the book will help. DS hasn't had a pooey nappy in ages now, except last night. I don't know how I missed it, and I just felt so awful that I had let him sit in his own poo without knowing. Going to do a search for that book right now :)

Mayaness - do you know where I can get the Bauer book from? I still haven't been able to locate one. All the links I find to what is supposed to be her web page take me somewhere else.

I EC'd yesterday while a friend and her baby were visiting. A first for me! It was funny, the babies were playing on the floor together and I could see Isaac was about to poo and I was just going to let him do it in his nappy because I felt a bit embarrassed for some reason. Then I just thought, no, I'll do it, who cares who is here so I just said 'umm Isaac needs to poo, back in a sec' and I whipped his nappy off and took him to the toilet to do his business (still haven't bought a potty). My friend actually thought it was great, and asked all about it! I'm glad I did it while she was here, who knows, I may have converted someone lol!

ISBN for the book is ISBN1440649596 - if you need to order it from a bookshop. Check with your local library network (and in the search field see if you can search through an extended library system - I didn't realise till late in the piece that I could order books from libraries all over the state, with my previous service, and I think with my new one!) as well.
I know that embarrassed feeling! Then thinking "well, I can't explain embarrassment to my child who just needs to do a poo in a dignified manner, now that she knows how to do it and it's all she knows". Sometimes I think that it 'might be easier' to put DD in a nappy, then slap myself and realise that's silly - she hasn't been in one on over 6 months, so why would I put her back in one? Plus, she can hold on for ages till we find a loo, so an 'accident' is really my own oversight - and rarely happens now, anyway.
She's only really having accidents at FDC, and she's only been twice, the second time she used the potty later in the day, so it's a matter of her comfort levels in care. She's taken to care very well, and the carer is happy to just change her into fresh clothes and offer her the potty :)
Good one on catching the poo and enlightening someone!!

My DD is 6 weeks old and I have always planned on ECing. I caught a couple of poos early on but was surpised that I wasn't picking up on any cues from my baby. I had some essays and exams to get done for uni so I sort of didn't bother. Anyway, today was my first day at home since my exams were over and we spent it with heater on and nappy off reading EC forums and advice online. Ended up catching 2 poos (based on timing, not picking up on cues). Still, I feel pretty chuffed about it.

I feel like my EC journey has started now and I know noone else who has tried EC, so I thought I would touch base here so I have some friends to turn to for advice (or to share my excitement and milestones).

OK, im back on the bandwagon with DD2 :)

I started at about 6 months with DD1 (totally dry day time by 14-16 mths) so i am a bit unsure what to do with DD2 as she is 11 weeks, we have lots of nappy free time when we are home and i sometimes know when she is going to wee - gets grunty and kickes her legs and poo wise she always does it mid BF so thats a bit more tricky.
I have been telling her that she is weeing when she does and talk to her about it, but should i be taking her off to the potty?

Any hints?

Also DD2 has taken a backwards dive with night wetting, she sleeps without a nappy and has an absorbent sheet (the ones that you get in hospital) under her so i just swap that out if she wakes up wet. Trouble is she is dropping her day nap so is exhaused at night time and sleeps more soundly so doesnt always wake if she needs to go (or cant hold it - not sure which)
I am not going o put her back in a nappy, but i am getting tired as she never seems to time her wet bed with Miss A's overnight feeds so i am up 2-4 times a night atm...

HI Jilli, welcome to BB :)

I'm doing the 365 photography project and one of the people I am following posted this gorgeous pic today so I just thought I'd share.. it's interesting to read everyones comments, some thinking it would be messy!

Just had to share...Aurora is 6 months old and we started EC yesterday (as in using a potty) we just caught our first wee!!!

She woke from a sleep and I was about to give her nappy free time (about 50% of the day is nappy free) and I noticed she was dry, so put her on the potty and she wee'd woop woop!!!

I did the same with MJ and she was poo TT by 12 mths and daytime dry by 15mths (slowed mainly by me returning to work)
Yay the journey begins again :D


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hi there :) my son is 2 and we have just started in big boy jocks he's doing well but i cant seem to catch a break when it comes to poo's :shakehead: he has done it twice on his potty but was mortified by the sight and seems to hold on or just do it in his jocks....any suggestions?

HI ladies,

I am in a bit of a "potty pause" I think.
I look back to a few months ago, just before my DD started walking, and we could have a dry nappy for most of the day if we were at home (going out and EC just doesn't seem to happen - I think because there are just no child friendly amenities anywhere near where I live, and when she was smaller I just used the back of the car, but now she is bigger it hasn't quite worked as well). Anyway, I could have easily said she was poo EC Graduate (is that the term??) from about 9 months, but still having a few misses with wees. Well, we had a few hurdles - walking started; got too big for the potty, so after 3 different potties finally found one; mum also pg and super MS and fatigue, so wasn't quite as in tune; a bit of disruption in the house in terms of moving things around to create space for number 2. that kind of thing. And I look back now, and we would be lucky to catch 2 or 3 wees per day - all the rest misses, and she has even done a couple of poos in her nappy too. I mean I do expect a step back but what is surprising is that she doesn't even seem bothered when she is wet or dirty, which was so not like her. And try as I might, I really don't think she seems to be showing signs of wees anymore. I have done the nappy free time, and several times she has been standing peeing on the floor and either been oblivious to it, or with a very surprised look on her face as in "who put that there?". At night - some nights she will be dry right through, and wake for a wee, but then others she will sleep right through and be wet in the morning. Any suggestions? I feel like we have lost the path a bit, and not sure of the way back.

She's busy, she's learning a new way to experience her world ;)
It's normal to have some regressions. The most important thing is to keep things positive between you and her. Keep communicating with her and avoid being disapproving. She's not learning toileting for you, she's learning it for her, and you're helping her :) I know it's frustrating, and it's really important to remember "it's not about me". It WILL happen.
My DD is now completely continent. She's nearly 2.5 and has been out of 'back up' nappies for 15 months (since we moved to the farm and out of MiL's house). She will go all night without needing to wee, and likes to use toilets, though she can't use ours yet because she can't reach the seat of the composting loo (we use the 'weekender' chamber while we're here in the shed), as well as the fact that it hasn't been plumbed in for liquid waste, so we're all doing our wee outside, unless DD wants to use the potty.
So, I guess you could call it a 'success story', and really, it's classic EC outcome that I know you will all come to :) I'm glad the practice is being revived, even in just small numbers, here in Australia!
Your toileting successes are always much more worthy of celebration when you've had setbacks - so the regressions really teach kids what to build from and what not to go back to, without us saying anything about it except what to aim for next time.

HI ladies,

just wanted to give an update...
DD is relatively "back on track". Most days when we are home, she remains dry for most of the day (maybe one miss or two), and even some of our "out days". Having said that, if we have an off day it's off all day (like today), but yesterday she woke dry, and remained dry for the entire day, so I think we're getting there - even at day care she's staying fairly dry :)

No 2 is due in a couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see what happens there, and not sure when to start - I started DD after 3 months (as she was in a pavlick harness, so not really an option till she was out of that). I just can't imagine ec'ing a newborn, but then I probably couldn't imagine ec'ing a 3 month old before I did either. But they are so floppy, how do you physically hold and ec a newborn?

Pretty easy to sit the newborn up - hold the receptacle between your legs and sit them either side on, or bub's back to your belly. You don't have to start straight away, either. DD was 2 weeks old when I bit the bullet and has been fully continent for over 18 months, she's now just over 2.5yo :)
See if you can find a vintage enamel chamber pot, or even a ceramic/china one if you have soft floors. They are much easier to handle than potties for a newborn, and I never had a spill with ours.
Your newborn will amaze you! If you felt clever with your DD at an older age starting EC, a newborn will humble you and you will feel that the new baby is far cleverer than you are ;)

Thanks Mayaness!
you always seem to have some good advice here!

Well, we had no2 - a DD2, now 11 days old. I haven't tried to hold her on a pot yet, still getting used to the "floppy newborn" (I forgot how little and fragile they are!!!), but I have been cuing with her when I do nappy changes, and she always pees and poops as soon as the nappy is off.

I have another question about DD1 though. Not long after my last post, she had an episode of constipation (she had roseola fever and I think it was due to having the paracetamol for a few days). Anyway, her first poop was very hard and like a small orange (sorry if TMI) and she cried when she did it. Now she seems quite scared of pooping, and she seems to avoid it at all costs, holding on till the very last minute, and then going either in her nappy or on the floor on the way to the potty. She used to like to just sit on the pot and go while reading, but now poos are a bit of an ordeal. I think she has a bad memory and is scared it will hurt again, but not sure how to move past this, any suggestions?
otherwise, going OK, and now wearing "big girl undies" and going most days without accidents. :)

Can you find a way to explain constipation to your DD? You could explain that it doesn't happen very often and that there are lots of foods, combined with drinking lots of water that soften the poo inside so that she can poo easier. Also explain that holding onto poo is bad for her body because all that left over that her body doesn't want needs to leave her body, or it can poison it (simple language that you can develop as she gets older to build on the concept).
Clever baby! And congratulations :) Enjoy all that ECing can teach you about your babies xx

Hi Ladies,

so the EC journey continues.....

I am happy to say that DD1 is doing really well. We did have a little step back when DD2 was born, but DD1 has been consistently dry during the day for several months now, and now also at night time more often than not too. We have also tackled the "scared of poo" hurdle that we had too. I am really proud of her. She is really a little miss independence. She had previously liked using the toilet, but now has gone back to wees on the potty, because she can get the potty, pull her pants down and empty the potty on her own, where as she needed help with the toilet. She does poos on the toilet though, as she likes to hear the "plop" sound! LOL!

But DD2's journey....
well, in the beginning I thought we were going to do really well as she always went the second she was exposed to air, so it was a great opportunty for cueing.
I struggled with trying to hold her over a pot, so made the decision to leave it till she had a bit of head control (I started with DD1 at about 3- 3&1/2 months).
We then sort of took a bit of a break, or realisitically more of a step back (for reasons on my part - DD1 started to get a bit jealous and I was struggling just being a mum to 2 / a new baby & a toddler; DD2 had reflux and colic and her poos were so explosive and constant, we couldn't go pants free (one poo flew out a distance of over 2metres I kid you not!) and also, it was really cold - we live in a shed - and it was just too cold for pants-free, even with leg warmers) so I decided to wait until it got a bit warmer, and she had head control, and thankfuly the colic and reflux settled down.

So, we begin again at around 3 months (she is now 5 months).
and so far, I am really struggling. This experience is so different than with DD1. I know they are different and I shouldn't compare but -
DD1 gave clear signs - would cry before a wee (I thought she had a UTI, and then realised THIS was EC - that is what actually started me on this journey), where as DD2 NEVER cries or shows any distress regarding elimination (only cries if she is sick or tired, or when she had reflux/colic).
I find it really hard, almost impossible to even catch the easy ones like upon waking, as she is quite content to just wake up and lay in her bed for a while, so I often don't know she is awake until well after she has woken - and wee'ed. She doesn't even get distressed if she has a pooey nappy (DD1 would let me know in no uncertain terms).
I have tried keepiing her pants free now that its warmer and have been able to watch and cue her for a few wees, but I don't think I am getting enough of them for it to be consistent enough. Also, some days DD1 (in true toddler fashion) can make it impossible to be that diligent! And I am still struggling to see her signs. I know she flaps her arm if she needs a wee, but she also flaps her arm if she needs a burp, or a sleep, or some attention.
I am not sure where I am going with this, I guess I am just wondering if anyone else had trouble with getting bubs signs or getting cueing?

thanks

ok, so Spock has a bit of nappy free tim after her bath. and always does a wee, so ive bought her a potty and thought we might start trying to catch that wee and go fron there. but we have trouble getting her to stay on. she obviously doesn't know what it is for, and we sit and keep her distracted while she sits, if we leave her to just do her own thing she jumps off. is it just a matter of perseverance?

No-one's EC'd since last year?
How are the ECers going?
I'm back in the crew :) I started later on the same day she was born - just felt natural and made instant sense after doing it with DD1. So far today I've caught every poo (she's 6 days old now) and just missed the wees while she's been sleeping in the HAB and I had visitors. In fact, one visitor was the maternal nurse and she'd never seen ECing being done before so she asked some questions and we talked about how it was normal for kids to be TT'd by 12 months in Australia. Big contrast to another maternal nurse we know (DP's cousin!!) who told me ECing was rubbish and couldn't work because of 'readiness'...well, we haven't seen her in a long time and I can't be bothered with being vindicated about it with her ... she's having her 5th baby later this year and she'll have been dealing with nappies continuously for nearly 5 years, so she can rubbish my vastly-less nappy-filled life all she likes!

I'm not doing it yet. But I'm very interested in doing it in a few months. So really interested to hear about what you're doing and how it's going.