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:hello: Gigi ... i just wanted to point out that to say what you & i have said out loud is very courageous which some may not understand :rolleyes: ... Sadly at the hands of our Mother & at the end of the day it has made ' us ' to be strong people & especially extremely kind & deeply compassionate to others :loveshower:... So, i thank you for opening up & sharing that with me (& everyone else too) :clap:
We ALL as Mother's DO what's OUR BEST for our child/children ;)
We don't smack DD unless she bites (a full on bite to get her own way, which she has picked up from somewhere). She bit my niece at Xmas time, but by the time I got there, it was a few minutes and I couldn't chastise her for it..
So I have advised my mother/SIL/MIL who sometimes have her without me in arms reach that we smack her on the hand when she bites, and they need to do the same if they catch her doing it..
I know that some will disagree with this method, but I am answering the question honestly..
I got smacked by just about everybody in the family as a kid lol... well, aunties/uncles and my mum's parents (who were a pair of royal grumps, I always hated them), anyway - the first time my dad's mother ever smacked me, I cried for days because she was my 'favourite' and had never raised a hand to me before (and I can still remember what I did to make her lose it with me so badly, so there you go lol).:
I was also smacked by family friends and other people when I was in their care - and I HATED it. In my mind, being smacked by someone other than mum or dad was just awful - sure, mum and dad really hurt when they gave me a belt on the backside, but for others to do it, hurt more than just physically, kwim? So I always swore that DH and I would be the only people to ever smack our kids.
But... I don't really have a problem with my mum or dad smacking DD. I suppose because they raised me, I know they never once hurt me enough to make me worry about the effect it would have on DD if they smacked her... my parenting methods and what not are relatively similar to my parents (I suppose that means they did a pretty good job, if I still choose to model myself as a parent on them, even with all the research on different techniques I've done and tried out), so I know they wouldn't overstep any boundaries that I have set for myself, kwim?
But, as you say, if anybody *other than* my mother or father were to smack DD (or discipline her in certain other ways), I'd knock their teeth out. :)
My MIL has smacked my 18 mth DD, when she was left in her care. So I never saw it happen but MIL casually mentioned it to me. This was one of the reasons we are now not talking!!! I know it wouldnt have been a hard smack, more like a tap on a nappy cushioned bottom, but still that is completely not the point. It makes me angry to know that she took it upon herself to discipline my child in that manner without me even being there - & of course if I was it wouldnt have happened. Grrr!
NO... my parents would not smack my children simply because the last time i was smacked as a child, i smacked my mother back. so they know not to touch my children or they will cop it back... yes hipocritical i know..
PILs are not the type that would smack their grandchildren... the have so much patience its incredible... but my dh was belted with many wooden spoons in his childhood.
as for other relies... no way... im big on the kids being told of in a growly voice other then mum works wonders....
^ Isn't it funny how parents who used to dole out the smacks like they were going out of fashion, suddenly find themselves unable to do anything but get that mushy look on their faces when the grandkids are acting up, and let them get away with murder??
I suppose that's another reason I don't worry at all about the very odd occasions when my mum does smack DD - she can't bring herself to do it very hard and 9 times out of 10 she just shakes her head and does the whole, 'Kids, gah, whaddaya gonna do?' thing... I wish she'd been that mellow when I was a youngin!
You bring up a good point for me.:
When I was about 10 or 11, I learned to fight back.
I could'nt count on 2 hands the number of "punch-ups" I had with my Mother. Right up to when I was about 16 or 17.
Thinking back, I think its shocking that a child has to feel like they have to fight back, with their fists, at their parents discipline. Shocking.
I sometimes see a bit of this "attitude" in Briley and dread the day the we ever have the experiences my mother and I had. I like to think that I have learnt from my lessons and am a better mother than to let that type of behaviour happen. Fingers crossed!
No way!!
i believe discipline is our responsibility. if DD is naughty enough to need a smack when my parents or IL's are around, they would never take it upon themselves to discipline her. and if we weren't there.. believe it or not, she is an angel.. all the time, everytime! the only time she mightbe naughty is when our nephew is around as well (he is 9, and at the moment, loves provoking her, which gets them both in trouble, and makes me so frustrated. its like he is turning my good girl into a naughty girl.. as soon as he leaves.. theres our little angel again!)
so yeah, in our situation, its not really an issue!
when my mum looks after my boys, she uses the corner with great effect :) She only has to threaten it and they usually pull into shape quick smart. So I don't think there is a need to smack them.
One thing I have learnt, there is a corner no matter where you are ;)
Im not too keen on anyone else smacking my child , if my mum is looking after DS i tell her to use time out .... however she is stubborn and a non believer in attachment parenting and i dont doubt for a second that ds has been smacked while under her care ... i dont think she would full on belt , just a smack on the bum ...
If the situation permits a smack ie: danger or misbehavior resulting in danger then id go as far as to say its OK for her to smack DS .. BUT if i were there with her , id rather myself discipline him ... usually we squabble about what needs a smack etc .. but in the end in public or at home I get down to his level and explain what/how/why and it usually helps avoid a situation where a smack would follow ...
so if it was my mum losing her temper and smacking him for her own justification then YES i would be livid . but if she has followed through with time out and has been told to stop and done all she can then id be OK with her giving him a smack ..
BUT then again hes always a perfect angel for my mum , and when she sends him back its usually me that gets left with the post oma's house withdrawals :lol:
Well, I'm completely a non-smacker, which informs my take on this. No, I don't allow my in laws to smack my children (my father has nothing to do with my kids and my mum is dead). I am aware of a great many wonderful parents who do use physical chastisement and I have immense respect for them as human beings, I just struggle with the logic and lessons in it.
That said, I don't understand how a punishment that is so potentially hazardous or damaging that it can't be entrusted to the hands of someone I have a reasonable relationship with, can be appropriate for me to use, either. Smacking is either benign, or it isn't. I can't think of any other discipline tool that I would feel comfortable using that I would have to say to someone else, "But you can't do that because I don't trust you enough". If I don't trust the person caring for my child to not mistreat them, what am I doing having them look after my child? So if the smacking itself is not mistreatment... then what's the problem?? And if it is mistreatment, then what am *I* doing using it? Every appropriate discipline measure can be abused - but I'm sure we'd balk at telling grandparents, "You can't use time outs or redirects or take things off them because I don't trust you to use them appropriately". Wouldn't we?
I have trouble with the idea that I'm the only person who loves my child enough to be entrusted with hitting them.
Toomanytoomany .... your last line quote so sums up some of what i feel !!
I too struggle to understand how the smack from a parent feels different to a smack of a grandparent ... Isn't the physical pain the same & the fear of being hit the same ??? :rolleyes:
Doudou ... i understand your DH being at the other end of a wooden spoon ... my Mum would even throw steel soup ladels, lucky for me my Mum had a terrible sense of aim & if i stood still the spoon would fly right past me :rolleyes:
^ As someone who was smacked by my parents as well as other family members *and* people unrelated to me... yes. Being smacked by someone other than mum and dad is way different. For me personally, being smacked by somebody other than my parents may have hurt physically a lot less than mum/dad's smacks, but it was humiliating to be smacked by someone other than mum or dad. If my parents smacked me, it hurt, but it didn't do any damage to my relationship with them, if that makes any sense - I knew I was getting a smack because I'd done the wrong thing and I knew that they still loved me and would not smack me again if I behaved myself. I was able to take a slap on the bum, have a quick cry, and then ten minutes later it was as if nothing had happened - I'd forget the entire incident and go on unaffected.
But, if somebody else smacked me, I tended to go off into another room or a corner and just sit and cry, feeling ashamed, embarrassed, and hurt because I didn't know where I stood with the person who had smacked me, kwim?? Smacks I got from other family members or family friends would linger in the forefront of my mind for days, if not weeks, and I can't really explain WHY I hated it so much, or why being smacked by other people affected me so much, but it did.
So yeah, in my mind, DH and I really are the only people who I trust with that form of discipline - you may not understand that logic or reasoning as a non-smacker, and I don't know whether you were smacked as a kid or not, but as someone who was smacked as a kid, and who has seen it work well enough with so many children as well as my own to decide that it's a more appropriate form of discipline for my own child than other methods, I do believe that physical discipline is a job for a parent, whom a child trusts most in the world - if a parent is doing their job right, their child will trust that even though they get a smack for misbehaving, they are still loved and cherished.
For the record, in my mind any kind of discipline is up to a parent, if that parent is around. I remember friends' parents doing things like sending me to time-out or whatever it was they did in their house, while my mother was there, and it was just as soul-destroying as being smacked on the backside. Again, it comes down to 'I don't trust you enough to be confident in your discipline, my parents are the ones I trust love me enough to do the right thing as far as that goes'.
I totally get the "I will do that myself but no one else is allowed to" philosophy.
It is a deliberate choice to allow people to have influence in your child's life. I wouldn't let just anyone bath her or take her to the toilet or do other things that I think only a parent should do either, because:
a) my DD might not feel comfortable with that;
b) it might send her the wrong message about what other people are allowed to do with her; and
c) they might not respect her limits and understand her behaviour the way that I do.
It is not up to my DD to evaluate whether someone is trustworthy in certain things (like discipline) or not. It is up to ME. I would actually strongly disagree with my mother or MIL using time out with my DD as well, since I'm not confident that they would view the situation the same way as I would. I would prefer they speak with me before taking any disciplinary action.
I was rarely smacked as a kid, but when I was it was because I had crossed that line and I never repeated the same mistake twice.
I don't have any kids yet, but I believe sometimes kids just need a smack, especially with things associated with danger - EG, when a 2 year old is walking towards a road, whether there is traffic coming or not, and doesn't listen to you when you call for them, then I would smack. IMO A red bum is far less worse than them being potentially hit by a car and they need to learn that when they are told to do something they have to do it, because it may be very dangerous otherwise.
If I was to leave my children with my mum/dad or MIL/FIL (who I know have the same idea's as myself) I would trust their judgement when it comes to disapline and I know smacking would be used only in approriate situations and not as abuse.
At the end of the day they bought myself and DF up and being smacked as kids as not harmed or caused us any emotional damage as adults.
As for "fighting" or hitting my parents back. WHOA! No way, I have way to much respect for my parents to even consider doing that to them. (Or myself!)
teagz i used to think exactly the same as you..... until i first smacked my child.. who was only learning what he can and cannot do buti as a adult knew he shouldnt do it so my responce was a smack..... all he learnt was "mummy said stop but i kept trying this new thing then she hit me" since then i am actively trying not to use smacking as a form of disipline....and now realise how scarring being smacked and the disrespect it creates.
i still struggle with not smacking but i know now there is no need for smacking there are other options... like going and picking up your 2yr old by the road rather then standing and watching...
i would hope my parents and PILs would also choose not to put my child in a dangerous position like that either.. we have a rule that our ds has to hold hands in car parks or when crossing the road.. if he doesnt we dont move.. its a rule we stick to it rather then smacking him every time he tries not to hold our hand..
DouDou, I was just about to ETA, that of course I may change my opinion once I had children. But just thought I'd put wht I thought out there anyway ;):
If I am present then I deal with any situations so there would never be a need for my mum or MIL to 'guide' DS so to speak if I am also there. If they are babysitting him then I expect them to as much as possible to give him the same treatment that DH and I do. We absolutely don't smack and there is no way they would smack him either. If they did, I would definitely say something because I am firmly against smacking. But I don't think they would anyway.