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Thread: What happens to the sisterhood when you FF?

  1. #37

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    if you try and search the word, often it will ask 'did you mean hallelujah'?
    Although, with that monstrosity that you typed, it would probably just say 'no comprende mi amigo, go make yourself a cup of tea and try again'.


  2. #38

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    Inanna m'love... remind me to show you how to turn on spelling check for all apps with a mac

  3. #39

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    I actually think many mums who haven't actually ff can still understand why others do. I had terrible problems with DS1 because he couldn't attach and the information I got in the hospital was all wrong and didn't help at all. I had no previous bfing experience, didn't have anyone around who had bfed and I was sinking. The difference between me who continued bfing and other mums who have switched to formula in desperation is nothing but luck. I happened, by pure co-incidence, to see a GP for a totally unrelated issue and this GP turned out to be one of the very few in this city who was able to diagnose the problem and fix it. That and a very good friend gave me an ABA subscription so I then knew where to get further help and support. Luck. Nothing more.

    We are all mums. We all know what it's like to be sleep deprived, to have feeding problems, to feel unsure of our selves. We all know what it's like to feel isolated and guilty and a failure. We all learn as we go and we all make mistakes. We all make different choices in situations, sometimes choices we are pleased with, sometimes choices we are not. There is no difference between a ff mum and a bfing mum. We are all mums. We all need support.

    And we all need to understand that talking about the advantages of something that we didn't do is not a lack of support. It's part of the learning process for ourselves as mums, for those in our social and family circles and for society as a whole. There are things I would have done differently if I had known then what I know now. But I'm glad I know about them now so that I can share with others and help them on their journeys. I don't beat myself up - I made the right decisions for the information I had at that time, and the resources available to me. I can't change that. We all do the best we can in the situation. And that is the best we can do.

    pb, I understand why the post upset you. I can only assure you that it was not intended as it came across. We all post things in haste at times and they can seem very different to what we mean.

  4. #40

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    :yeahthat: Beautifully said MR.

    pb-

  5. #41

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    MR, I agree with so much of what you've said. That pure luck you were talking about. The lack of support and information out there for mums is simply astounding. I come to realise this more and more with every week, and it just breaks my heart. Mothers deserve better. We know that breastfeeding initiation rates in Australia are very high, mothers WANT to breastfeed their babies.......but the numbers drop off very quickly. This is mostly due to that lack of support, and knowledge, and I find that very distressing. It is not the fault of the mother!

    I personally think that BB does a wonderful job of promoting breastfeeding as being the norm, and most members are very encouraging of those struggling . I know that my experience would have been a lot different had it not been for BB. As someone who has BF and FF at the same time, for most of my baby's, well, babyhood, I know the trauma involved with opening that tin. Yes, I was bl00dy determined, and worked extremely hard to be able to continue breastfeeding in any way, but like MR some of it was just luck. If my MCHN had been less supportive, our paed, my family, any of those people telling me to just make the switch, it could easily have all been over.

    TBH, I saw the comment referred to and thought 'OUCH'. But I'm sure it wasn't meant to hurt. PB, I hope you can go back to feeling comfortable around here and know that you have much support

  6. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
    I'll start this by saying I have never FF but I have to admit, I think the comment made was completely thoughtless. It wasn't about the benefits of breastfeeding in a general sense at all, it was quoting a formula feeder and saying a part of breastfeeding that they never got to experience is the most wonderful thing. THAT HURTS. Even as a breastfeeding mother, I can see that that is hurtful. The person KNOWS they missed out, they don't need it shoved in their face.
    Thankyou Jitterbug, Responses that express effective listening, help to build understanding and compassion essential for some kind of meaningful interaction. Unfortunately some people have completely missed the point. Genuine attempts to help new mothers through the disorienting first few months have been abandoned in favor of unrellenting prejudice posed by some BF'ders. I know this is a gentle parenting forum which promotes BF'ding. However it doesn't make it ok to put down a new mother for using formula. And those who cannot BF, or choose not to, may feel inferior, perhaps believing that they are failing as mothers. Lecturing FF mums is unhelpful and possibly even cruel Ė especially as many women who feel under pressure to BF actually find that they cannot do it. To BF or not to BF should be a motherís choice, and no one elseís. To bully pregnant women and new mothers into making 'the right choice' in the way that current BF promotion campaigns often do is to add to the burden of anxiety and guilt that new parents already have. Is that best for baby? I don't think so.
    As for the baby milk companies - yes, they are powerful, and yes, they want to sell their products. But they are not brainwashing anybody: they are selling something that women clearly want and need. It is hard to see who benefits from the range of promotional restrictions and 'no platform' policies that are currently applied to these companies, and the official moves to tighten up these restrictions: including restricting the availability of formula milk on healthcare premises . Despite the tendency of some BF promotional literature to hype the magical qualities of BM and to expose the alleged dangers of formula, it should be remembered that formula milk is a safe and nutritious alternative to, or addition to, BM. FACT.
    To argue that women are incapable of choosing to BF simply because of the existence of the alternative, is really patronising . If a mother is incapable of sticking with BF because they can see tubs of powder on TV or on the supermarket shelf, how are they ever to be considered capable of withstanding all the other pressures of parenting, or making other choices about feeding, and raising, their children?
    But from the number of healthy people walking around who were FF as babies, and women's experience of FF'ding their babies today, it is quite clear that formula milk is not poison and FF'ing your baby does not amount to sending them to an early grave. Not that you'd know this from the culture perpetuated by some posters on this forum.
    I accept Bf'ders and FF'ders alike, but not everyone is that open minded I guess?

    This thread started because of a hurtful comment but it got me thinking about people who choose to ignore the dangers of hurtful comments in a world where PND is on the rise and where the claim to be "The Friendliest Online Forum" falls much below that standard.
    Before some people jump down my throat and tell me to go elsewhere if I don't like it here, I'll say this.... Judging by both responses and PM's I have received I am certainly not the only one that feels compelled to comment on how judged they have felt for FF'ding. However, all the PM's I received said they did not want to post publicly for fear of retribution.... Something to think about...

    BF is such a wonderful thing if it works. BF'ders are wonderful . There is a distinct difference between mothers who BF and mothers who also happen to be BF'ding but judge another mother for FF'ding. The latter don't interest me.
    Finally,I donít want to be part of a culture where I cannot express my own personal experience and offer open minded advice, only to be shot down.

  7. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rouge View Post
    And I FF my first child (after many struggles), so I do know what it's like to feel the disappointment that goes along with not breastfeeding. At the end of the day own your choices, and allow others to feel happy in the choices they have made for themselves. Just because someone is happy about BF'ing doesn't mean they are attacking your, same for if someone doesn't like the idea of FF'ing.
    I absolutely adored breastfeeding so why on earth would I choose to FF over something that felt so nurturing and loving to me ??? I am ecstatic for anyone who BF but having your beautiful child fall asleep at your breast while you feed her, I mean it must be the most wonderful thing on earth and not something I chose not to experience? I wasn't hurt because Kelly had experienced that, that would be totally silly.

    It made me feel like crap.
    Last edited by Jennifer13; November 16th, 2009 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Remove paragraph attacking another member

  8. #44

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    The saddest thing I have found for mum's who have 'failed' bfing their children need to justify why they cant and why they have had to use forumla as its not like they want to...the choice sometimes is taken away. Its hard and upsetting when we have tried and tried only to feel like a failure within ourselves, let alone have someone's words make us feel even worse about the situation.

    Unfortunately a baby handbook doesnt pop out of the placenta at birth to let us know exactly how things should go. We have to feel our way through motherhood and do what helps, whats best for ourselves and our children.

    PB - im really saddened that someone made you feel terrible Its an extremely sensitive time when your child isnt doing the 'norm' and it feel's like something is a miss. We all walk differnet path's but we're all heading in the same direction. Your doing a wonderful job as a mum, please dont doubt your ability. Forget about the post or poster, concentrate on the joy of motherhood is much more rewarding.
    Last edited by maz; November 15th, 2009 at 06:04 AM.

  9. #45

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    PB - I understand you're hurting and you need support. There are a lot of people on this site who will support you. But attacking someone personally in public isn't acceptable hon. Regardless of who they are. It's not the way things are done on this site. Perhaps PM or email Kelly if you have an issue with something she has written - but not publicly. I'm not saying don't express your opinions or anything like that - just that personal attacks aren't very nice or accepted on this forum. Besides, you're better than that!

    Remember, you are supported. There are heaps of people on this site ready to support you.

    MG

  10. #46

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    PB i hope you stick around.

    whilst there have been a couple of times when i've felt like i wasn't part of the sisterhood on BB (nothing nasty directed at me or anything, just posts overlooked etc) there have been many posts on this forum that have hit exactly the right spot for me they have helped me through a tough time. i hope that maybe one day, one of my posts can help do the same for someone else.

    one day you may be able to help another mum who is facing a similar situation & it might be sharing your experience that helps them through. to me, that's a great reason for you to stay & i really hope you feel able to

  11. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by maz View Post
    The saddest thing I have found for mum's who have 'failed' bfing their children need to justify why they cant and why they have had to use forumla as its not like they want to...the choice sometimes is taken away. Its hard and upsetting when we have tried and tried only to feel like a failure within ourselves, let alone have someone's words make us feel even worse about the situation.
    Perfectly said Maz.

    The point that PB is trying to make with this thread, I believe, is not that FF or BF are better than each other. The fact is, a comment was made. And I'm sure it isn't the first comment that PB has been exposed to about the topic, if she's had an experience like mine. And sometimes you just reach breaking point. Whether the comments are intentional or not.

    Inanna - from the sounds of it, PB didn't choose to FF. Sometimes bo'obs don't work. It's a physiological thing. My inability to BF both my babies after months of trying everything is witness to that. So to say that someone should be responsible and own their decision, when they had the decision taken away from them in the first place is a little harsh. Also, to use the analogy of a woman backing over her child in relation to the topic of this thread....?

    PB - I am so sorry that you are so upset. When this forum started, I didn't realise how heated the debate can get. It is so unfortunate that there is an "us and them" mentality within some circles, as someone said previously. This will probably never go away. Just take comfort in the fact that your baby is now nourished. FULL STOP. Like I said, BF isn't much good when your baby is losing weight and you've tried everything....drugs, expressing, naturopath....the list goes on and on. But like Maz said, we shouldn't have to justify the fact that what is in our baby's bottle is formula rather than BM. Sure, some women choose to FF when they could have BF. The main point is, they choose to FEED. Only 20 years ago (not long at all in the grand scheme of things), it was common place to put cereal in bottles! Ahhhhh, we could go on forever. The different opinions don't end with feeding. Soon it will be discipline, dummy or not, toilet training. The list goes on. The fact is, you are hurting. And it does hurt. But take comfort in the fact that your baby loves you for loving her and that's all that matters x

  12. #48

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    Lovely comment sloane. So true.

  13. #49

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    pb.

    I think MR puts it the best when she says you can support someone without actually agreeing with them 100%.

    I feel terrible you don't feel supported in your decisions. That is really tough. It is also hard when you turn to a place like BB, often for some light reading or fun and come across a post by accident that is really hurtful. That has happened to me before on other topics...and it made me realise I had something I wasn't letting go of.

    You're doing a great job, and only YOU know what is best for your child. I think BB can be a little overtly pro-Bfeeding at times because to be honest, society IRL is pretty non-supportive of Bfeeding, especially long term Bfeeding (and we only need to look at at Bfeeding stats to know FFeeders are actually in the majority).

    Being a mum is so hard sometimes...especially when you feel unsupported.

  14. #50

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    Double post

  15. #51

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    MotherGoose, I really am not attacking just replying to any posters which were made in the public forum that's all. I actually really liked this site, but have noticed over the years this lack of sisterhood, when BF mothers need to use formula (or God forbid choose to use it !) Initially I tried to laugh off the whole thing about never having had the experience of DD settling on the breast, but it came back at me in such a way that when I read that I felt so....so....low. I don't expect anybody to agree with everything I said, but don't be mean, YKWIM?
    Anyway I really have had enough of this forum being like this and the superiority expressed by some people towards others ( Really, again, not anyone in particular but the collective attitudes by certain people) expressing their hardnosed attitudes towards a mother who has made the decision to BF eg being told in the chat room that you are selfish because you are FF'ding, even though your journey which took you to that point was horrendous !) I don't think that should be acceptable. But it gets overlooked because this is a "gentle" parenting forum. Sorry but there is nothing gentle about that.

    I guess I've just had enough and judging from the PM's and public posts, it's clear that I am not the only one who feels this. It's just that I am the on who has raised the topic that people are coming forward in how they feel. But it is evident that it is defnitely NOT because I posed this question that made people feel unsupported, those feeling were already there. Sure promote BF'ding because it is wonderful and beautiful and nurturing but don't push and push and push and then when it's not working push some more. That's not fair and only leads to feelings of "despair and resentment" and those are words I took from another member who felt like that.

    Honestly thank you to those who have expressed their opinions with a level understanding which has in turn promoted meaningful conversation.
    To anyone who feels like I am angry, hurt and that I wanted to feel like that....well then I guess all I can say is, if I said something hurtful to you on a public forum would you not feel....anything. I think "feeling" is what makes us human. Please don't de-humanise that.

    Anna perhaps you are right, perhaps I haven't let go of the desperate yearning I had to BF my DD. That's why I need to leave and heal and go on living my life loving my daughter, rather than feeling like I need to hide my experience because I might be shot down. Thankyou to you all those who have been kind enough to acknowledge this journey.
    Good luck to all mothers who choose to nurture their child the best way they can and the best way they know how whether it be Breast or Formula. I believe that every mother wants the best for her child not just the ones who choose to breast feed.

    PS, NikiW, you have hit the nail on the head. Thankyou
    Last edited by Visitor3; November 15th, 2009 at 08:12 AM.

  16. #52
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    Argh, PB, I gotta spread the love dammit! I just wanted to say you have said what ALOT of members have been thinking and just not saying. I like you have recieved NUMEROUS pm's about alot of issues/attitudes but no one says anything to stand up for themselves or their beliefs! Good on you for saying exactly what your feeling and why it has upset you. Imo, this isn't about 'how we individually perceive or interpret ones comments', because it's pretty clear that it's not just the OP who looked at it and went 'errrr incensitive'. Like I said hun, it's always going to be something that you do as a mother that people won't agree with. You just learn to form a thick skin

  17. #53

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    Only YOU can let someones post affect you......its your interpritation of what they have said and allow it to fester that will damage you.

    In all honesty..this thread is starting to become like a ***** session......if you dont like what someone say's report them, PM them or be the bigger person and just simply turn the computer off and walk away

  18. #54

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    PB- hun, just for the record, i was one of those people who PM'ed you with support. It wasn't because I was afraid of retribution. It was because I wanted to give you the support I could see you needed, but I didn't want to publicly contribute to a thread that was effectively slandering someone who was not online to defend themselves, and probably not even aware such a discussion was taking place. Now pb I know that was not your intention. When I read you OP, i was not aware that it was a specific comment that upset you, it was someone else's post that alerted me to that. But that seems to be what this thread turned into.

    I understand what was said was hurtful- like I said in my PM, that would have devastated me. But this would also devastate me- if I made a thoughtless comment, after a long and stressful day, (who can say they haven't done that?) that was interpreted the wrong way by a lot of people; then there is a public thread about how insensitve I've been, without me having a chance to explain myself. That would be quite hurtful as well.

    Just my two cents. i think it's important to take everything everyone says online- no matter who they are- with a pebble-sized grain of salt. I hope you can find some peace with this pb- it almost seems like the person who is being hardest on you about ff is yourself. You did the right thing for you and your baby, deep down you know that- take it, own it, be proud of the mummy you are

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