I don't see any demeaning in the article at all :dunno: I'm certainly not seeing any negative messages. I too found it really sweet.
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I don't see any demeaning in the article at all :dunno: I'm certainly not seeing any negative messages. I too found it really sweet.
That is so beautiful heaven! I had tears in my eyes!
Sent from the land of "iSomethings" so forgive me for any spelking misstaks ;)
I experienced something like this at my school reunion last year. One guy and his wife had a bub, she was about 4 months I guess, she was in the removalable car seat thing and they sat her on the table behind us where no one was sitting, all alone, awake and alone. I thought it seemed so incredibly disconnected to her and made me sad.
Sorry TFB, I didn't see anything bad about the article. I thought it had a good message. So she used some examples, I felt they helped illustrate her point.
Can I ask - what's the positive message? Is it just "spend time with your baby as soon he'll grow up"?
I suppose I just didn't like the way that a mother is dissing other mothers when she has possibly forgotten (or never known) what it's like to have constant bullying about how to parent whilst being up all night with a baby in pain who just screams and screams and screams then hits you in a painful area (such as an eye or a sore nipple) and pukes on you. Sometimes, certainly when you're about to snap, letting a baby cry isn't a bad thing and isn't going to result in a child who leaves home without a goodbye: that was an escalation too far for me.
I think it's beautiful. It's not meant as an attack. It was how a woman felt. I think we're all entitled to that. I can't relate to everything that's posted here, every POV or every way of parenting. But that doesn't mean I think because of that it's an attack on me. It's not. It would be like me saying if you eat carrots you must hate me because I don't eat carrots. No. That's not how it works.
Personally I think the article would have been better without the restaurant example, I do think it encourages judging.
Now after having a second and seeing how different he can be to his sister, I certainly am less inclined to judge as I know I do somethings differently with him because he reacts differently.
Also I think the whole never let them cry thing goes out the window when have more than one, I don't mean CIO, but sometimes you can't physically deal with two at once and a choice has to be made as to who can be left while you deal with the other and I personally don't always pick the baby, it depends on circumstance.
Rouge, I have to respectfully disagree. That article, to me, read as an attack on mothers who let their child cry, even for a minute. And we have ALL done that. I personally dislike hearing babies cry, especially when those cries are being ignored. I really dislike CIO. But I wouldn't write an article attacking a mother who went to a restaurant with a baby and didn't respond to that child. I wouldn't make wild assumptions and - as a child who was left to CIO and left home with narry a backward glance - say that letting a child cry meant they would leave home without a goodbye. That's downright cruel and not true in the vast majority of cases (I'm weird, we all know that).
TBH, I have more empathy for the attacked mother than the writer. That poor woman - yes, I am applying my filters to her situation and may not be correct, but they are slightly kinder filters - then having this put on the internet for others to vilify her too.
TFB, I had the puking and the hitting and the crying - from 4 children - but I still get what she's saying. The message is not literal. She's not saying you shouldn't let your baby cry at all, or that you have to be 'perfect stepford mum' every single moment of every single day. She is saying that babies can be seen as inconveniences by many, which I don't personally see as attacking of individual mothers btw, unless it's a mother who actually views their child as an inconvenience, that is.
Telling someone who has a very young child that it doesn't last forever and that time should be treasured is a positive message. I don't see it as purporting to say it isn't hard, or to shame mothers who aren't parenting the way she does, but to just say: it doesn't last forever, your child will grow up and away from you before you know it and you should try not to let society make you believe you should have a maintenance-free baby who doesn't need you.
See I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as a mother who in retrospect wished she'd hugged her children more when she looked at her 17 year old son.
That's all I got. And yes when you are past that point retrospect is great. And of course it's completely NOT realistic to hold and cuddle your child all the time.
And there are some people who do believe that CIO is not ok for their children. And that's ok too.
I don't feel guilty because I had a pram. Nor do I feel bad because I didn't co-sleep. We did for our family that worked for us. That is all that is what everyone does. Do I personally agree with shoving a bottle in a babies mouth, no I don't. But that's my opinion. And I don't think that is what this article is about.
Instead of focusing on what we don't do I think this article was just meant to help you look at your babies in those moments when you feel like your losing it and go, "Yanno, I'm going to miss this one day." and maybe it'll help calm a parent in a mini crisis with a baby who isn't sleeping. And I can't tell you how many times I was saved by a moment like that. It does work. But once again, this is just my POV. And as I didn't write the article it really is no skin off my nose how it's interpreted. I got to take something away from it, and I'm happy about that :)
I agree it is, just think it really did not need the whole restaurant 'poor baby' example to put that across.:
I think it was just a first hand account of a scenario she witnessed (and only witnessed, but didn't know any other background to, I think we all agree) that actually seemed to illustrate her point that a baby can be seen as an inconvenience. Of course none of us will ever know if her assessment was spot on, but it does illustrate the point, factually accurate or not.
I do love the idea we should cherish our children as they grow up - I really do. It's a great message.
But this:
"My family went out to dinner the night before last – Olive Garden (“When you’re here, you’re family”). As my husband looked past my shoulder he said with a sigh, “Poor baby.” I casually tried to glance around and saw an itty bitty baby that couldn’t have been older than a couple of weeks – sitting in a bucket car seat with a blanket draped over his chest propping up a bottle in his mouth. What looked to me to be his parents along with grandparents and a group of 6 people were chatting, not a single one looking at the baby. Finally the dad took the bottle out of the baby’s mouth – and baby started to cry. He tried multiple times to put a pacifier into his mouth – the baby refused, continuing to cry. He then tried to put the bottle back in the baby’s mouth…baby cried, moving his head from side to side…but the dad grabbed his head and pushed the bottle back into the baby’s mouth.
The baby stopped crying. How can you cry when flat on your back with milk being dripped into it? But baby stopped crying, so the father turned back to the table. He was the only one who had even turned to look at the baby.
I began to wonder how we got so detached from our children. When did a baby’s cry become something easy to ignore? I wondered when this little boy turned 17, would these parents be glad that he’s independent enough to walk out that front door with barely a goodbye, or will they LONG for the days of his babyhood once more? I really do wonder what causes this disconnect – is it from the common birth practices in this country? Where labor sensations are immediately removed via epidural, newborns are immediately removed to a warmer, breasts are immediately replaced with a bottle or pacifier, arms are immediately replaced with car seats and carriers and swings…."
That isn't a cutesy little message - and the bolded bits, to me, read "judgement, judgement, judgement: you're all damned". And actually, I have no problem with the idea my baby is going to grow up and leave home. I hope he does. I hope he meets a wonderful woman and they have children just like him (and her) and he enjoys every minute of it. I hope I get to be an involved grandmother too. I like the whole life cycle thing. I would hate for Liebs to be a baby forever, that isn't right.
Do I miss Lieby being a baby? Yes. But I also cherish where he is now. And it's futile to think "if only he were smaller I could enjoy this again" - I enjoy what I have. If Lieby were smaller I couldn't play Lego in the sitting room with him awake. Good points to every age.
As for when he hits 17 - I hope he leaves his bedroom more than a minute before work and our conversations are more than "hi - gotta go - bye" (instant judgement on a snapshot of someone's life I know nothing about - not pretty, is it?). But that's why I make chat-time with him now: I want it to be a normal thing when he's older (undertone: see, I'm the better mummy here). And I am going to LOVE it when we can discuss books that aren't about people falling over or monkeys being naughty. (I honestly will not miss that one.)
So what is this bit about? "I measure my entire life by one memory of breastfeeding and life sucks". Having already said "bottles are bad", she now goes on to say "the only joy in life is breastfeeding". I remember the way my son came off my breast asleep. It is pretty cute. But it really isn't the only highlight in my life. Probably makes the top 20. Life does get better than a sleeping, breastfed baby. (Although the sleeping part is pretty sweet.):
I will remember the way he would fall off the breast, milk spilling out of his sweet bow-tie mouth, peaceful in my arms, using my breast as a pillow as I quietly rocked him. I treasure those moments that my mother warned me would ruin him. It is in that moment that every other piece of joy in my life shall be measured – and lose. Life doesn’t get better than in that moment.
I can't tell you not to take offence to something you are going to take offence to, TFB. Me? All my teens were of the 'hi, gotta go, bye' variety at one stage or the other. I don't take anyone pointing that out about my kids as me being a bad parent. It does, however, make me realise that they have grown up fast, and that they went from needing me, to not needing me, in what seemed like a split second.
And if I could talk to the author of this article, I'd tell her to hang in there, because as they come out of their teens, they come back slowly, and they actually start talking to you again, so not to despair. Does it mean I'm disrespecting her by pointing that out? I dunno, I don't think so.
No, Sushee, that doesn't come across as disrespectful. Because you're not picking on a poor woman who had a meal out with teenagers who just grunted/played on smart phones the whole night (when yours never had smart phones and that made the highlight of your life) to make your point.
Nor are you saying "how did we disconnect from teenagers? Was it a part of allowing them to have posters in their rooms, or wear hoodies? Does it start when we joke about how vile teenagers are rather than trying to understand their hormone-fuelled confusion? And let's not start on their role models..."
TFB, I know you said you weren't upset by this article, but it's clear you are. I think what's important to remember is that projecting our own stories onto someone else's experiences is never going to fare well for us or how we feel :hug:
I judge other parents all the time. I refine my own parenting partly based on what I see from others around me. I wouldn't be human if I didn't. Everyone else can judge my parenting however they like. I know i've probably been criticised for extended bfing, public bfing, baby wearing, cosleeping, etc. They're welcome to ask me about my choices. I may even change my methods (I certainly have in the past, which is why I ended up bfing DD1 as long as she wanted, we decided not to smack, switched to cosleeping when DD1 was young, rejected CIO, etc, etc, etc). I even do things differently with DD2 because I've had long discussions that challenged my parenting.
I hope that continues, because it will make me a better parent. And those things I would not change I will happily defend and won't feel the slightest bit guilty or bad if someone disagrees.
I reserve the right to think badly of other ppl when I believe there is a good reason to do so. Just as I think well of other ppl at times too.
Interesting point, PZ. I suppose that I was very openly judged when I had a small baby (heck, I am now!) and I just dislike this sort of negativity.
Yes, I judge other mothers. I also think "I don't want to do that", "I do want to do that" or even "I may do something similar to that". I like friendly advice and try it, if it sits well with me. I actually enjoy the way I parent and it isn't damaging Liebs too much - although we'll see what the therapy bill is later before I make any firm statement on that. Who knows what parent I will be to Stormy - it goes without saying not the same parent I was to Liebling at that stage.
What I don't do is write an article slagging off another mother for what I percieve to be her parenting choices. (That's something my own mother would do and I have had it up to here with her! The whole article could have been written by my mother, TBH, it is very much in her style, which is probably why it rankled in the first place.) And that I get passionate about - by all means say to someone's face "have you tried another method?" or "I find this works" but DO NOT sit, smugly ignore, then write an article about it the mother may read! That's cowardly, cruel and nasty.