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I wonder if this behaviour is going to get worse with the increased birth rate. Will there be an increase in intervention as there will be such a rush to get you through quickly due to needing birthing suites and beds.
Saying that though I do remember my mother talking about being induced with me as they needed the bed (early 70's), I would not budge till I was ready though.
More tired Obs out there for sure!!!!
It is just so wrong!
It makes me realise how lucky i was with my first induction. I was induced for very low fluid levels, and i was completely ok with that, but luckily i had started having regular contractions 12 hours before i got to the hospital at the planned time.
I refused the drip, just asked for a ARM to see if we could get things going. I think i originally asked for an hour, my obs was ok with it (private obs, private hospital). Then after that hour was up, it was the midwife who harrassed me to go on the drip, even though things were gearing up. Finally she got the point that i wasn't having it, called my obs, who said if i didn't want the drip, i didn't have to have it!!
Only after reading all of this do i realise how impressive his attitude was, letting me have a say in things (within sensible guidelines).
I think i was also incredibly lucky to have the worlds best doula with me, helping me handle the pressure of the drip happy midwife (seriously, you would have thought she earnt a comission or something), and to help me get into real established labour without it.
Can't wait to have her around again!!! (ETA: THE DOULA!!!!.....and the worst part was that wasn't even the worst midwife i had during my labour.. oh, i could tell you all about the other one, but i think i'll get to worked up over it)
Awwwwwww Yael.... the midwife or the doula? :cryinglaugh:
*mwa* I can't wait to support you again too hon xx
I think the best thing i can get out of this is knowing that i should make a point of having a detailed discussion with my midwife at ANC appointments as i get further along. Aurora your suggestions of your birth plan, with the 'lawyerish content' if needed, are really good, and this has all encouraged me to make sure DF really does have a better understanding of what i want and how to help me during labour.
I really would have liked to have gone private, but as had no health care, am all stuck to the public system this time around. The stories i have read of some homebirths are very empowering and i do want to birth at home for my second and and any subsequent child(ren) but i guess it will all depend on how smoothly this first experience goes and what can be afforded at the time.
Ashlea, have you thought about a doula? Even a trainee if money is a problem. Having someone who has been through it before and can advocate for you away from the highly emotional attachment a partner, mother or sister would have is so beneficial.
We had private cover since our second baby but decided to go public with our third and hire a doula instead of an Ob. I don't think either system is better or worse Ashnant, it's up to the individual to defend their rights either way. Public or private, you can still be pushed into doing things that aren't in your best interests.
I have been looking into getting a doula, but as i'm currently in melbourne (probably until at least 32 weeks) but moving to Geelong to have the baby it's been complicated to organise. I will get there though!
What a horrible way for a woman to start her labour!
I must say though, I was induced in a private hospital at 1cm and my OB insisted on breaking my waters and leaving me for an hour or so before we did the whole drip thing JIC I went into labour. I never did so we started the drip as I was Pre Eclamptic and bub had to get ASAP and I didnt want a c-section if I could help it.
Thankgod for people like you Kelly :dance:
Yep Yael - I am like you, I thank my lucky stars every day that I have a great Ob and a Great Hospital.
Kel, I think that we are slowly going to see a turn in the tide though hun. Even in the last year, the increasing numbers of women that are REALLY educating themselves about childbirth, interventions and hiring Doulas and midwives will eventually begin to change attitudes in the medical profession. In the meantime we will all keep working away to make change happen!
Hello Everyone.
I'm actually the client in question in this story. :redface: Kelly informed me of the thread and I just wanted to come in and say thankyou to everyone for their replies. I also thought I would come and share the birth story from my point of view - the little more emotional side. I will warn you, it's very long so I hope you are comfy and have plenty of fluids handy. :p
On Sunday the 21st of October, I lie awake in bed at all hours of the morning, knowing I am but hours away from actually having a baby. Being told I was at risk of an incompetent cervix from the beginning, made to fear that I would have her too early was hard enough to deal with. Being told “any time now” from week 35, I was amazed that I would be still lying there at 42 weeks pregnant – 14 days past the due date I was told I would never make.
Knowing I would be induced that morning, I barely slept a wink the night before. Instead I lie in bed and cherish those last movements from inside – the kicks that I swear were going to end up with a foot emerging from my right hand side, the little hand movements near my bikini line. And of course who can ignore the head butts to the cervix – the most recent addition to the party that happens every night inside. I smile with every one.
All along I had planned for a Birth Center delivery – a nice big double bed, the option of the biggest bath I had ever seen, and of course wonderful midwives who were all about what I wanted out of the experience. As each minute ticked past though, I drew ever closer to the cut off point of 7am Sunday morning. The moment that I would be classed as officially “over due” and moved down to the general labour ward with doctor’s and interventions and no one I had ever met through out the pregnancy. I begged and pleaded with my little belly occupant to start making the move, even if labour started before 7, I had a chance to stay with the birth center.
At 5:30am however, the alarm which I really didn’t need, went off. I took a deep breath and got up, it was time to get ready. I felt fine until the last bits of my bags were packed and waiting by the door, the only thing left to do was sit down and wait. It hit me, I was going to have a baby… that day.
We arrived at the hospital not long before 7am and loitered around the lobby awaiting the arrival of my Doula, Kelly. After heading upstairs just after 7, we proceeded to wait around. I don’t know why I was so worried about being late to the 5th floor, it’s not like I wasn’t already “late” to deliver anyway. If I had of known I would sit around until roughly 9am, I really wouldn’t have worried. Eventually one of the many midwives that had walked past us time and time again stopped… they had a room and this was it. Time to go!
I had learnt at my previous appointment, that the hospital policy upon reaching 42 weeks was to break the waters and immediately begin the Syntocinon. I was really afraid of the ‘cascade’ of interventions and had already mentioned that I wanted just my waters broken to start with. I felt ready to labour, I felt that I really only needed a little shove in the right direction and I really felt that that was all I would need. Unfortunately, the doctor’s didn’t seem to think I knew my own body – you know, the same one I’ve lived with for the past twenty-seven years.
The first doctor ummed and aahed when I expressed my wishes, and although I could see the hesitation and uncertainty in his face, eventually agreed to give it a go. What bugged me though was the midwife, who while listening to my wish NOT to have any drip, was busy checking my arm for good veins. I later found out it was because they wanted to put a line in now, so that it makes it easier to give me the drip later. I politely explained that should I need it, we can put it in then, and for now I would like to avoid ALL needles. After all, why stab me if we don’t need it, get your kicks another way.
The first doc left and I made a bit of a comment to Kelly about how he wasn’t really hearing what I wanted. It was then we could hear muffled talking just outside the door. I shut up and strained to eavesdrop lol.
Minutes later, the midwife, first doctor aaaand another doctor came into the room. It seems Doc #1 had consulted a higher ranking doctor (#2) and he was here to give me the biggest guilt trip I have ever experienced in my life. I was told, once again, that it was hospital policy to administer the Syntocinon upon rupturing of my membranes. I explained, again, that I wanted the chance to see if just the breaking of my waters would be enough, and should it prove not to be, then I would discuss the drip. I wasn’t saying no out right to the drip, I just wanted the chance to see if I could get it going on my own.
I continued trying to get my point across the only way I know how – making light of the things he was saying: “If we don’t give you the drip, things won’t progress until later in the day…” says Doc #2. “I’ve got nothing planned for this afternoon – I’ve freed the whole day!” I reply with a big smile. “Labour can end up taking all day, if we give you the drip now, it will get things started straight away”, he tried. “It’s ok, I got a really good car park under shade”, I rebutted.
When this didn’t seem to be getting him the answers he so obviously wanted, he started on about how if we waited and put in the drip in the afternoon, I may not give birth until the morning and then a doctor would have to be called in. Apparently, as he repeated to me over and over, doctors don’t like being woken up in the middle of the night when it’s “unnecessary” – ie, if they can force the baby out during the day, they get a good nights sleep. It was about then that I started to realize he wasn’t listening to anything I was saying. He was hearing me, but he wasn’t listening.
The next half an hour was a blur as I found myself staring at nothing and hearing “no, no, no, this isn’t how it’s meant to be” running through my head. I turned and looked to Kelly for help – she jumped right in. I remembering hearing over and over the phrase “it’s hospital policy” from the doctor, and “but not law”, “her wishes” and “give her a chance” from Kelly. When the guilt trip about waking a doctor in the middle of the night didn’t appear to work, he switched to say that if I was to give birth in the middle of the night, there wouldn’t be the right people there to deal with any issues. It was told to me that because we were breaking the waters artificially, and that something had to be inserted, there was the risk of infection and it would be better to deliver during the day when all the doctors required to deal with it were already here. I vaguely remember commenting, in a slight ‘give me a break’ tone, that “we were in a Hospital, and forgive me if I am wrong, but equipment is sterilized before use, right?”
With this tactic failing on him, this lovely man decided to go the next big step – infant mortality. I don’t really remember what was actually said as the tears were flowing now and all I wanted to do was go home. I was being given a huge speal about meconium in the waters, infant distress if labour didn’t progress, or if it did that it would take too long etc. All I could do was lie there crying and feeling every single set of eyes in the room looking at me to cave. I just started shaking my head in disbelief. Why wouldn’t they just let me try with the waters and see what happened. They were writing me off before even giving me a shot.
Eventually the doctors left the room. Doc #2 (Mc Nasty) was off to speak to his superior. The second he was out of the room, I let out the breath I didn’t realize I was holding and the tears flowed. I had Kelly on one side and a very angry DH on the other. Both were discussing how horrible this man was being, the obvious guilt trips and reassuring me that it was all going to be ok. I kept asking why he wouldn’t just let me give it a go…
Ten or so minutes later and everyone comes back into the room. Mc Nasty is a little more subdued and informs us that his superior is OK with us just breaking the waters. The look on his face that he couldn’t just walk back in and use the excuse ‘my superior has said you need the drip’ was so obvious. The only condition was that I must set a cut off time, a time that if my labour wasn’t started by, the drip would be. Let the negotiating begin!
At first I was given an hour… 60 whole minutes. I looked at the cloth and it was approaching 10am, which would have given me till 11. I said that wasn’t long enough and I wanted something more like 3 – 4pm. We bounced back and forth a bit. Well he bounced, I just kept repeating “around 3 – 4pm”… eventually he agreed.
Mc Nasty left the room and the first doctor got set up to break my waters. This doc was actually very sweet, quiet and gentle. This doctor I liked. Unfortunately, and I think it was because he was so gentle, he was having trouble breaking my waters and informed me he needed to call in… dun dun duuunn… Mc Nasty. I just rolled my eyes. Of cooourse he does.
Mc Nasty re-entered the room, only this time he knew he was the last person I ever wanted to see and actually looked rather apologetic that he had to come and do this. Thankfully he was very quick and even plucked out a hair or two to show us that it was all done. Personally I thought the big gush of water I just left all over the bed gave it away. As quick as he entered, he was gone and it was time to get up and go for a walk. I was given some hospital pads, which given they are basically just cotton material; I needed to stack about 4 thick. Getting up off the bed resulted in more water coming out and I was changing those first four pads before I even left the room. The midwife said it will happen slowly, I’ll get a trickle here and a trickle there. We put 4 extra pads in my bag “just in case” and headed down to level 1 and this Hospital Cafeteria.
By this time we had Sam with us. Sam’s a friend of Kelly’s and does birth photography. Yup that’s right, I had my own paparazzi! So Kelly, Sam, DH and I all sat down to some morning tea. No more than 3 bites into my sandwich, I swore I felt a little splash against my heel. I must have had a confused look on my face as everyone was looking at me. Kelly asked if I was having a contraction, to which I replied, “no… I think I’m leaving a puddle.” The funniest part of the day happened next, when three heads disappeared under the table only to come up laughing and informing me that yes, I was leaving a puddle, a BIG puddle.
Kelly asked the lady behind the counter for a towel or cloth and informed her I had lost my waters. She made a comment that, “you can’t take kids anywhere” which didn’t really make any sense until she came up with a chux cloth and was looking at the table for the glass of water I had spilt. No no, pointing to my belly… my wwaaaaters. *BING* You could literally see the light bulb go off. With in seconds, everyone in the Café knew and I was the center of some very excited attention. Kelly dashed up stairs and returned with a towel to put between my legs and a sheet to wrap around my middle. Extremely appreciated as I could feel I was wet down to my knees. Off we went back to the 5th floor, my sandwich now in its take away form.
I got back to my room, changed my pants and underwear, put on yet more pads and everyone started to get a little excited. This was a good sign. And I was going to have a baby today! Gah! On the way back up to my room, contractions had started, mildly, and Kelly commented on how good this was. Only 40 minutes after my waters had been broken, this was a very good sign! We were going to shoot this baby out my dinner time and really stick it to the docs.
I was put on the fetal heart monitoring to see how bubs was doing. I had requested intermitted monitoring and everyone started to get a tad annoyed when almost an hour later I was still there. It was 11am in the morning and little bubs was sleeping. I tried explaining to the midwife that she’s always asleep at 11am in the morning and never even really starts to wake until 2pm. “Ah huh” was all I got back. Approaching the 2 hour mark and all of us were getting very aggravated that I was still chained to the monitor. My contractions were dying down the longer I was sitting there and I could feel myself getting tense. We wanted to go for a walk, so when the midwife came back in to check again, I informed her I needed to go to the toilet (as they have to detach you in order to do that) and that I was going for a walk immediately after. We were all ready to just walk out anyway, so she really didn’t have a say in the matter.
We located the hospital stairs and off we went, down all 5 flights. Upon reaching the bottom, it was now time to go back up! I managed one whole flight before the first real painful contraction hit. Everyone smiled and nodded to each other. “Yay, she’s in pain, that’s just super!” By the time I reached the top and started on the way back to my room, I was pausing every 5 feet – contractions were about 3 minutes apart. I had read they would hurt, but ouchies!! A little while later and I was having to grip the window sill in order to remain standing and found I couldn’t even hold my water bottle. I needed to sit down, my legs were getting wobbly, my feet hurt.
We headed back to my room and located the fit ball. I was hooked up to the monitor again which was annoying, but we realized we had been gone for 45 minutes so, yes it did make sense to check again. We didn’t realize we had been gone that long. I managed about half an hour on the ball before I was uncomfy and I wanted to lie on my left side on the bed. A position I have always craved when unwell. I kept wanting to try to get onto all fours, but every time I attempted to roll over, the contractions got almost unbearable and I found I just didn’t want them to hurt that bad. I stayed where I was.
Contractions came thick and fast and I remember thinking that I was going to be sick. Two or three contractions later and I the midwife was telling me I should empty my bladder as I had been drinking water fairly regularly. I agreed and sat up to make the move. Thank goodness we had Kelly there who could actually see roughly where I was at, and was very handy with a bowl at face level by the time I was vertical. There was no “I’m going to be sick this time”, it just came out. Pretty much completely water, although I was told afterwards that there were the mint leaf lollies I had nibbled on prior to that, and apparently my breath was ‘minty fresh’ even though I was vomiting. I’m such a lady…
The side effect of being sick is that it’s like someone is pushing both ways from your middle. You have stuff coming up and out, and yet something also pushing down and out. After everything that could come up, did. Once I felt I had nothing left, and another contraction had just finished, I was immediately helped to the toilet. For someone who was so worried about being looked at ‘down there’, I now sat on the toilet in front of a room full of people. But oh boy, it had never felt so good as it did right now.
One contraction… two contractions… a break. Omg, a break, that feels so good, I can actually... whoaaaa! That’s about as far as I got in that thought when I experienced what I had only read about. My body was taking over and I felt this really weird sensation. It wasn’t a contraction, and it wasn’t continuous either – it was like one, two, three. Right after each other. I could hear my noises change too. I was just grunting, no more “owe owe this hurts”, I sounded a little like a wild animal in attack mode. I heard Kelly asking me if I felt any pressure in my bum area, I shook my head and grabbed her hand… here it comes again!
The break in between these feelings was such a relief. If it wasn’t for Kelly practically holding me up by the facewasher on my forehead, I swear I would have fallen right off the toilet. The break wasn’t long however, maybe 30 seconds… possibly a minute. I could hear people talking in the background. The midwife telling me to slow my breathing, Kelly telling her that it wasn’t contractions, I was pushing. The midwife wasn’t really listening. I opened my eyes every so slightly and looked at Kelly. “I feel like, like I’m holding something in”.
Kelly forced the issue with the midwife that I was pushing and, with a sigh, she told me to come back to the bed and she’d do an examination. The bed was a good 5 or so steps from the toilet, yet I think I was whisked across in a single sweep because as soon as I did stand up, the “we’ll giver he an examination” was very quickly replaced with, “get her on the bed now, that’s the head!” Apparently, I was already crowning. That explained a lot.
I collapsed onto my left side on the bed and the room filled with people – more midwives, people putting gloves on, people to hold my legs apart. I heard someone offering me a drink, and although when I opened my eyes I realized I had never even seen this person before, they had a straw and glass of water pointed at me so they were my friend.
As my body continued to take charge, I could hear it screaming out without any concern on if I actually wanted to be shouting or not. I could also feel the cause of the screams – my nether regions were on fire! “This is the stretching” the midwife informed me. Six or seven push/contraction things later and the head was out, best feeling in the whole world and my screaming dropped a hundred or so decibels. I actually felt the head turning too which was an interesting, yet wonderful feeling and was told to give one more push to get the rest out. In all the DVD’s and online clips I had watched of births, it always looked like the body just slipped out, so I was a little surprised by the lumpy feeling that accompanied it. It was like shoulder, shoulder, elbow, elbow, bum, legs, done!
And then, my life changed forever. The most precious, adorable, perfect thing I had ever laid eyes on was looking back at me. I had always thought ‘ew’ when picturing the whole wet, newborn baby thing being on your skin, yet in this instant I wanted to kiss and cuddle her like I’ve never wanted to kiss and cuddle something before. Even when I looked at my hand and realized she had pooped on me, I didn’t care. It was perfect poop, I loved that poop. The immediate, overwhelming love I had for this perfect little human being filled me from head to toe, I was 100% smitten!
Unfortunately, because everything happened so quickly, I learned that I was going to need stitches – quite a few stitches. There was some debate on if it was going to require a doctor to do it, or if the midwife was going to do it herself. Apparently it was that bad. Eventually the midwife came back to say she would do it, and not long after I was surprised to see Mc Nasty sticking his head in the door. He wanted to say congratulations. I thanked him, smiled and commented “and I didn’t even have to wake anyone up in the middle of the night”.
Savannah Alison Buzza was born at 3:05pm. Four hours after my waters were broken, and 55 minutes before the cut off time for the Syntocinon. Weighing in at 3735g, 52cm long and a 35cm head, she managed a breast crawl and attached perfectly within around 15 minutes. I was stitched up and sent over to the labour ward where I spent a single night before coming home to begin the next stage in my life – as a mother.
I received lots of comments from many of the midwives about the 4 hour labour, especially as I was a first timer. I was just so chuffed that I could stick it to doctors who said 80% of first timers can’t get labour going without the drip. The day started off horribly, and although I felt like I had to fight every step of the way to get what I wanted, all of it was (eventually) achieved. This wouldn’t have been possible without the Kelly and I can’t put it into words how thankful I am that she was there for me. I can’t imagine the horrible experience I would have had if she hadn’t of been there. Although I like to think I am a fairly strong person, I know I don’t stand up for myself well and goodness knows what the doctors would have pushed me into.
My Grandmother passed in April of this year, and I full believe she sent an angel to look after me – that angel’s name is Kelly.
Thank you so very much for sharing such an indepth account of your daughters birth with us. Good on you for sticking it to the Dr's and for sticking to your guns. Hopefully you taught those Dr's a lesson that day too. One can only hope hey.
Thankyou for sharing that great story Haydies, you are so brave!!
Haydies that brought tears to my eyes - and I am at WORK and should be being professional right now LOL!
Congratulations on such a sterling effort - you showed 'em, girl. Or should I say WOMAN!!!!
Wow Haydies what an awesome story! Congratulations on your beautiful baby girl, the part where you first lay eyes on her made me cry....wonderful! Enjoy her :)
Thank you so much for telling your story Haydies. I am so glad that it ended happily for you despite an absolutely appalling start and I think you did amazingly well.
It's just NOT ON for doctors to try and hurry you through when there's simply no medical need for it. Night time wake-ups are really par for the course and the only excuse would be if the doctor was actually incapacitated through sleep deprivation and potentially putting you at risk.
Wow, that is such a great story. Congratulations and well done!
I have to say...
... funniest thing I've read all day...*grin*:
Awwwwwwwwwwwwww!!! You are gonna make me cry!!!! *sniff sniff*
You are so strong hon, I am so proud of what you acheived!!! Such a star. Well done for sticking it to them xx
Oh Haydies, thank you so much for sharing that wonderful story. Have you thought about becoming a doula yourself?
Absolutely amazing the things they will say Kelly!
When I went to hospital for my 40 week check up with my DD (on a friday), I was told that if I needed a c/s over the weekend that no one would be there to perform it! I told the pr!ck that if I needed a c/s then he better get his lazy backside off the golf course and come and do it. Then asked him what he thought Qld Health would think of him saying that to me. We came to a comprimise after that and I needed the emergency c/s as it turned out, and I hope it was him that I woke in the early hours of the morning too!
So glad to hear all went well with the birth and that you were there to support the mum :)
Nic
Do you know whats ironic though, you watch those shows like RPA and they have people come in from crashes etc who are religious (Jehovah's?) and they wont accept anyone else's blood... yet they get talked to with dignity and respect about what they would like and then thats okay and understood. But a woman say no to something which isn't an emergency and she gets the third degree and dragged through the coals. Not having a blood transfusion when you need it will kill you. Not wanting an induction when there is no reason for it will not. In fact, it could possibly make things worse. Why do women get the raw deal? Those who work in emergency medicine are also on overnight shifts, but I don't see them saying, 'are you working tomorrow? I hope you don't wake me up,' to a crash victim.
That was a fantastic birth story!! Well done and congratulations!!!!!!!
Out of curiosity, was it a private ob and private hospital?
Wow Haydies what an awesome birth story.
I have to say I got really angry on your behalf.
I've said it before and I'll say it again if any other person was to do a service for us and they tried to bully us into doing something against our wishes that made THEIR lives easier we wouldn't put up with it.
I personally would take this further, I'd be writing a letter to the hospital to complain.
You all did a fantastic job, and I too think Kelly is amazing.
Enjoy your babymoon and your wee little one.
Excellent points Kelly. I think it's because we are emotionally vulnerable and they treat us that way because they CAN. Women have to refuse to be treated this way and do it intelligently not emotionally as much as possible. We need our advocates in doulas and we need to be prepared with our logical defences long before crunch time. It can be a catch 22 situation: we feel emotional about defending our rights but in being emotional we can be accused of being irrational. I think the reason why a Jehova's Witness isn't questioned without respect is because everyone knows that the person has made up their minds about the issue based on a long standing belief system. As pregnant women we need to confirm our plans as early as possible and choose our carer's wisely.
Nope LG a Melbourne public hospital.
Well said Bath and thank God for BellyBelly.
I think thanks to the internet and sites like BellyBelly that women will educate themselves more about their birthing options but isn't it a shame that we need to in order to get the best care?
I used to think that women were silly for not researching more and knowing the pros and cons of various interventions because I'm a big one for taking personal responsibility. But no-one would expect that of someone who had cancer for example. They wouldn't be expected to research chemo versus other treatments and tell their doctor what they would like. They would expect their doctor to talk them through all the possible options and give them impartial advice.
Even antenatal classes gloss over this stuff. If you blinked you would barely have heard that an epidural gives you an increased chance of forceps/vacuum thingy. I had an epidural and forceps and have absolutely no regrets whatsoever because I made a judgement call on the risks well before I went into labour but if I hadn't thought about it beforehand I could have felt like the situation was getting way out of control.
Thankyou for the support everyone, I'm glad you enjoyed my (very wordy) birth story. As I sit here 10 days on, being able to soak up my precious bundle all day, knowing that I did it naturally and without the need for further interventions makes it all worth it. While yes, I feel a bit jaded about the day, I refuse to let it get too me too much. Our little family is so far above the importance of a doctor that I won't let it taint us any further.
I'd love to think that Mc Nasty learnt from that day, but I highly doubt he will.
I had a of those tins of awesome shortbread butter cookies that I originally took in to 'butter up' the midwives, but because it was all a little quicker than I had thought, they ended up coming back home with us. I had been keeping them to send in with a thankyou card, but last night DH and I were chatting about who and what exactly I was thankful for. Apart from doing my monthly appointments during the pregnancy (which I never saw the same midwife twice), they didn't really do anything worthy of the cookies. So I ate them! :D
Funny you should ask that. After feeling so safe in Kelly's hands, and really feeling like she was my voice outside my body, the thought did cross my mind. The only reason I don't think I'd be good at it is I'm still not the best at confrontations (actually I run away from them) and would never want to not[ be able to stand up for a client. I love the idea of being able to aid women in getting the experiences they both want and deserve, but not sure I have enough bark or bite just yet.:
That said, this is bubs #1, and there's at least #2 and maybe #3 to come. Maybe after that I'll have had enough practice to rethink that profession. :p
LG - As Kelly mentioned, I was a public patient in a public hospital. No OB, just the midwives.
For me this is pretty much the nail on the head. Being the type of person who spends far too much time on her computer as it is, I'm also hugely into researching things to the max. It's this background that brought Doula's to my attention, something I had never even heard about before. And it was only after learning what they were, that I then went on to read more and more about the difference they can make.:
Being able to read up on all the different types of interventions and pain relief options so routinely given and/or offered in hospitals, as well as educate myself on the natural alternatives, truly helped me towards achieving what I wished for my birth.
I think that there are a lot of women out there who go by the Dr's word because, really, Dr's know best don't they? They've always got our best interests at heart and would never ever do anything that wasn't really necessary. :rolleyes: For me though, this is my body, and that is the most important thing. And as evident by my labour and birth, it knew what it was doing.
Hey there Haydies :D Can't believe it was 10 days ago!
Reading your story has me shaking as I remember clearly the looks on your faces. No wonder I felt the tension in the air when I walked in the room.
You did a sterling job and my goodness you sure showed McNasty ;) I loved how he only stuck his head in the room to congratulate you. Not even a shoulder!
LOL Haydies, there are plenty of people who agree with you that I have plenty of bark and bite :cryinglaugh:
But you don't need to be an expert to be a doula. You will learn all you need to know in your training - sometimes you get women who haven't had training and even men are getting in on it.
My teacher, Rhea, starts her classes in March of every year. It's people like you who have had great birth experiences but also tasted what really goes on, who can make great doulas. (as well as others of course, it just gives you a great perspective on things - me being an ex-private girl x 2 so when I talk about the private system, I have lived it).
Can someone just write to KevinO7 and ask him to make it mandatory for obstetricians to disclose their caesarean rate without you having to ask.
We should make that the first question people ask you when you're pregnant ie. oh, you're pregnant, fantastic, which hospital/obstetrician are you going to? And what's their caesarean rate?
It's pretty easy to find out a public hospital's caesarean rate (if you bother looking) but if you're a first timer and learning as you go, you might only ask your obstetrician quite late into your pregnancy where it would be unsettling to change.
I know caesarean rates aren't the be all and end all, but they'd have to be pretty good indicator. I'd like to see a publically available 'league table' for private obstetricians which should spark debate about why there are such huge disparities.
I completely accidentally have the obstetrician with the lowest caesarean rate in Melbourne. I say accidentally because I only went with him because all the female ones (which was my main criteria) were booked out and I didn't know about the appallingly high caesar rates before I went with him. I now say "ooh, he has the lowest blah blah blah" as a badge of honour but I think it would be quite good if women got competitive about whose ob had the lowest caesar rate!
And add inductions to that too! Inductions effect the c/s rate ;)
Absolutely. And epidurals CAN too. Now my ob (who I have deepest respect for) says that epidurals don't give you a greater chance of caesarean and I'm sure in theory that's true. BUT they do make it harder for you to push out your baby and, according to various midwives I spoke to, some obstetricians will only 'let you' push for a short amount of time and then recommend a caesarean because they would rather do that than use forceps/vacuum. One midwife told me that I was lucky that my ob 'let me' push for over two hours because ... "another ob would have only given you 15 mins then whisked you off for a caesar." Probably because they're less skilled with forceps/vacuum which in turn means you're more likely to sue. So indirectly, it appears to me, epidurals ARE leading to more caesareans but no-one is told this because theoretically it's not true. Now, I don't think that many women rock up saying 'give me a caesarean' but at my hospital (Freemasons) 50% of women have epidurals which I suspect would also increase their caesarean rate. Then after having a first one, they're more likely to have a second one than a VBAC (I think).
Anyhow, I think that's all quite tricky for a newbie to take in so just give people the caesarean rates and then let the obs have to justify themselves if they have a high one. People will soon start using it as a criteria for their choice and their 'buisness' will go down if they're high intervention. Once it starts affecting their pocket, things will change.
Oh gosh, hope that makes sense.
Yup this is why some people in the birth world call them surgeons instead of using the word Ob. They are skilled at surgery. But where are the skils with vaginal breech? Or anything else that doesn't require tools? If you ask for alternatives you often get a blank face or a few choice words. Obviously to them the risks of surgery are far less when they do not feel confident enough doing other things which they feel will get them sued. They talk risk, we need to talk possibility. Like an Ob may say, 'if we do xxx then there is 2% xxxx might happen.' What about the 98% chance it wont! :) There is an unspoken language of understanding, a secret code in their world. Would be good to break it.
Well, I reckon lobby for obstetricians to have to disclose their caesar rates in the info you get when you sign up OR we could construct a league table of caesar rates ourselves, effectively naming and shaming the worst offenders. If everyone on bellybelly asked their ob for their caesar rate we'd soon have a little table going. Would make for pretty interesting reading! And if they refused to disclose them, you'd have to get suspicious!
Our hospital policy is you're "allowed" 2 hours pushing... I remember that because the midwives let me go over 2 hours then asked if the could fudge the times, then got annoyed at the ob for being with another woman in labour when he "should" be with me!
I'm still really upset at how much fighting I had to do for the crap birth I had... why fight for that? Why did I even bother? Sorry, just getting all emothional again!
In NSW you can look up the NSW Mothers and Babies report on the Health Dept website. It has tables listing c/s rates for all hospitals, public and private as well as inductions, epidural rates and more.
It makes an interesting read......well, for a birth nerd like me it does. :redface:
C
Yes doulacara and that's fantastic that people have access to that information. But I think we need to go a couple of steps further. Firstly, we need to educate women that they can and should access this information and secondly we need to be able to access private obstetricians' caesarean rates. I'm kind of guessing here but given that public hospitals have a lower caesar rate than private ones, I imagine that the caesar rates for the obs in the particular public hospital would be similar because presumably they have the same sort of protocols and if one ob was doing vastly more caesars than another it would be noticed by the hospital management.
But, I imagine, variances between private obs are not policed by hospital management. So, for instance, the Freemasons Hospital has from memory a caesar rate of about 30% give or take a couple of per cent. My ob works at that hospital and as he is (sorry to be a broken record) the ob with the lowest caesar rate in Melbourne, I imagine his caesar rate is somewhere around 15%. I also know that Lionel Steinberg works at that hospital and he is notoriously anti-intervention too so I imagine his rate is also around 15%. Now for the Freemasons to have a 30% caesar rate that suggests to me that there are a couple of obs working there whose caesar rates are well over 30%, possibly closer to 45%. But unless you specifically ask your ob you won't know. If you just go on the hospital stats, you'd say OK, well I basically have a 1 in 3 chance whereas depending on your ob, the 'chance' may be much, much higher. Again, I don't know this for a fact but I think that's a pretty logical conclusion to draw.
The easiest way to get women more educated about birth stuff is to encourage them to look at caesar rates. That's a very simple message to put out there and it will prompt them to then start looking at the story behind the figures.
Great post Fiona :) makes sense to me!
Thanks Bath. I can feel a letter/media release to marie claire coming on. If they can take on campaigns like better maternity leave, I think they would consider taking something like this on. I used to work in PR so once I get a bee in my bonnet, it's very hard to stop it buzzing around. Slightly off topic, I was in a very awkward situation the other day where a woman at Mothers Group was talking to another mum about the fact that she'd had a caesarean cos her pelvis was too small. Now what on earth d'you do? Hardly my place to start saying, oooh but they can't know that until you go into labour, depends on the position of the baby, pelvic scans are unreliable etc. etc. Can hardly tell the poor woman that maybe she didn't need that caesarean with its resulting long recovery. Very tricky.
To kind of take this thread back to Kelly's original moan...
I agree that women should have access to OBs caesar rates, but knowing that Australia has a national caesar rate of around 30% doesn't seem to deter women from choosing obstetric care over midwifery care during pregnancy. It makes more sense to me to educate women about midwifery care. Most women do not require an obstetrician to monitor their pregnancy and birth, yet many Australian women choose a private OB and cost the commonwealth purse thousands of dollars (in the form of PHI rebates and Medicare Safety Net) for what is, IMHO, better managed by midwives. Obstetricians have put the fear of god into society surrounding birth, when the reality is that for 95% of women it is a normal and safe natural process that is best left uninterrupted.
Midwives are unsupported by this government in its refusal to subsidise insurance and provide Medicare provider status - effectively meaning that anyone who wishes to choose their own midwife must foot the entire bill themselves. Very few PHI reimburse midwifery fees and Medicare does not at all. So when an obstetrician charges a massive 'pregnancy management fee', knowing that the Medicare Safety net will fund most of it and a woman who chooses her own midwife must foot the whole bill (anywhere up to $4000) - it is easy to see why obs get the nod from women, despite those soaring caesarean rates.
The Maternity Coalition actively lobbies for one-to-one midwifery care to be available to all Australian women, not just those who can afford to pay. That's what I would be sticking my weight behind.
Just my thoughts,
C