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thread: Blastocyst Vs Day 2/3 transfer

  1. #55

    Feb 2007

    good luck mommy_ 2_4

    All the best on your first IVF cycle ! All this stuff does get very very interesting. I think the vast of information kept me involved and TTC longer. So I guess you need to decide how many to put back when Egg Transfer (ET) time comes.

    fingers crossed and toes !

  2. #56
    BellyBelly Member

    Aug 2007
    Gold Coast

    Thanks for the information Sushee
    I was trying to decide whether to have a day 3 transfer or try and get to blast, when I first started IVF I wanted to go to blast because of the information I had read and my clinic didnt do it at that time, I had 2 beautiful 8 cell embryos put in but got a BFN, when I was on my last 2 embryos I wanted to go to blast as the clinic had now started doing them, but unfortunately my embryos did not divide overnight.
    I know that if I go to blast I might not have any to transfer or freeze but my way of thinking is if they didnt make it to blast they wouldnt make it at all I know this is probably not right but its just the way I think.
    I am definately going to blast this time, I think you need to try anything and everything and hopefully something will work
    Thanks again for this useful information
    I hope I dont sound like a bimbo but what is a BLAST cycle and 2 day transfer all mean........Can someone please explain it to me in dummy terms????

  3. #57
    BellyBelly Member

    Aug 2007
    Gold Coast

    Hi abs,

    It's usual to have a Day 2 transfer, though some clinics will do it at Day 3. If the pick up was Monday and you transfer on Wednesday, it's a Day 2 transfer. A blastocyst (blast for short coz I'm a lazy typer) is a 5 day embryo.

    All the embryos will develop at different rates, mainly becuase they don't all fertilise at the exact same moment So on Day 2, you may get a range of 2-8 cells depending on when fertilisation took place and how quickly the more robust ones divide.

    I see that you are due the same day as me! Congratulations!

    Hi Guys
    i had a 5 day blast transferrred. I started off with 9 eggs, one to be destroyed and 7 out of 8 fertilised. Then we ended up transferring one on day 5 day with 3 to be frozen. I am now awaiting my pregnancy test which is in 8 days. God Im scared...I feel the chances of it NOT happening are higher then the chances of them HAPPENING.....but after reading all your stories..maybe I have nothing to worry about....can someone re assure me of this??????

  4. #58
    Our IVF Blessing Has Arrived after 6 Cycles

    Apr 2007
    Brisbane Australia

    Carla I read the odds and we have gone with Blasts my FS belives it is stonger for us with ICSI. Please hang in there

  5. #59
    blizzy Guest

    We are going to Blasts as that is all my clinc does. I asked that if they weren't doing well on day 2 or 3 would they transfer them, and they said no

  6. #60
    BellyBelly Member

    Aug 2007
    Gold Coast

    AF arrived this morning...Im devastated.

  7. #61
    Our IVF Blessing Has Arrived after 6 Cycles

    Apr 2007
    Brisbane Australia

    Carla sorry to hear that

  8. #62
    Mai1974 Guest

    Hi everyone,
    I did first fresh transfer end of Sept 07 by ICSI then I got bleeding 14 days later (due day AF), I had b/t with 34hcg, maybe first time I didn't get p/g or chemical pg (I hate to use term miscarriage). I continued the second attempt FET on 8/11/07 with no crinone support and got BFP with 335hcg 18DFO, I was very happy but on first ultra scan 2 weeks after that, there was nothing in my u/t then I got miscarriage on the same day. This time I sure I lost my embie by m/c. Both time we transferred by day 2 and only 1 embie put back each time. I devasted and disappointed and want having a break time until next year. Next time we want to thaw 2 embryos into blastocyst to see if which embryo survive to transfer, if both good we will frozen 1 and transfer one. We are now having 5 frozen embryos left. Please advise me this way can have better chance, like Heather said we should do what we feel like to do. I agree ICSI is inexact science and if embryo want to stick, it will but I want to do what i assume it's good for me. Thanks

  9. #63
    mushka Guest

    Hi Mai1974
    this is a late reply. you've probably moved on since your last posting, maybe feeling a little less stressed. I am also doing ICSI, last transfer of fresh blast didn't take. Out of all fertilised eggs only one made it to blast. It's a tough business this growing to blast outside of your uterus. In normal conception from day 3 to 5 is when the cells move from the fallopian tube to the uterus and so in the lab the culturing technique has to be perfect for it to survive. They actually have to take it out of the culture it was in till day 3 and put it in a new culture til day 5 or 6. I had one that made it and 4 that almost did.

    I am going to try another round aiming for a blast as that is what the clinic believes best and I guess I'll give it one more go and after that if I loose them all again, I will demand day three transfers from then on. I got one blast out of five eggs, so next round of harvesting if I am using stronger med's I hoepfully might make up to ten and then maybe I might get 2 blasts. The survival rate is really small, you have to be prepared to risk losing them. I hadn't expected it and was devastated.

    It is hard to know what is best, trust your instincts. You can always try again, seek other opinions. Good luck, hang in there!!!!

  10. #64
    BellyBelly Member

    Aug 2007
    Melbourne, Vic

    Quick question What amount of cells are blast developed too? Found the answer!
    Last edited by Lucia; February 20th, 2008 at 03:18 PM.

  11. #65
    Registered User

    Dec 2006
    North West Sydney

    Hi SuziQ,
    Thanks for your entry to this topic and providing the information you found on the ACCESS site. I have been going through IVF as a single person since 2005. My last attempt at age 43 I had 10 eggs and so went to blastocyst, at day three I had 9 embryo's at various cells from Morula stage down to only 3 cells. By day 5 I had only 2 embryo's left, whilst I asked the scientist to keep the other 5 overnight...they didn't make it. So the disappointment of going to blastocyst is having no frozen cycles to do, also I had a pgn just after Easter so am still very raw with sadness. After reading the articles and the different personal experiences from yourself, Sushee and Abs I will speak to my doctor again and re-assess the who blastocyst V's 3 day transfer. I'm not getting any younger and don't have time to waist so any new information is very helpful...thanks. DM

  12. #66
    BellyBelly Member

    Jan 2006
    Coburg -Melbourne

    Just thought I would add something to this interesting debate. Personally, I do feel that not every embie that doesn't make it to day 5 wouldn't have made it in the body and have certainly heard plenty of stories of "poor" looking day2/3 embies ( that would be thought not to have made it to day 5) which went on to preduce healthy babies.
    However, I read very recently ( sorry can't remember where) that there is NO correlation at all between what an embie looks like at day 3 and its potential to get to blast. From first hand experience, I have just finished a round of IVF/PGD ( sadly not successful). I got a summary of the embryology report and the grade of day 3 embies didn't really predict at all what they looked like a few days later. One of my B grade day 3 embies turned out to be the best by day 4 and was actually transferred
    My point in all this, is that maybe the thinking that "poor" day 2/3 embies would never have become children if were left to go to day 5, is not necessarily true. They could well have fought on and become great blasts which still would have been transferred to bring a healthy pg. Similarly, transferring the "best" day 3 embie isn't going to guarantee the one that truly can go the distance. I guess I am still leaning in favour of the blast transfer.

  13. #67
    BellyBelly Member

    Jul 2008

    Hi MeridithD.

    I have read some medical research on the matter and it indicated that blast transfer is more successful because of more or less the explanation you have given. My success with blasts is a testament of this. However, growing blast require better lab environment than day 3 and if your clinic is not equip with the right "stuff" your embies might not have their proper chances. Also not all people are suitable for blasts as they are harder to cultivate and many FS prefers to give the good day 3 embies a go "in the natural evironment".

    I had very excellent day 3 (one after thawing was at 10 cell stage, the others at 8 or 9) but I still had an BFN.

  14. #68
    barney Guest

    just thought i would put in my bit so far

    were now pg off putting in 2x day 3 embies
    1 x 4 cell very fragmented and 1 x 3 cell embie

    this was an emby from ivf-icsi # 3 and it was a fet #1

  15. #69
    Phoenix and Nugget have both risen!

    Apr 2007
    in lactation land

    I thought I would share our story/experience as we finally had success after trying day 2, day 3 and blastocyst transfers across 9 cycles/7 transfers.

    My egg quality is shot and I was unable to produce many eggs at all over the 6 cycles/4 transfers with my own eggs. Only once did I produce enough eggs for them to do a blastocyst transfer. It didn't work. We didn't manage to get any embryos left over for freezing on any of our cycles.

    My sister is my egg donor and for the first 2 cycles with her we transferred a day 5/blastocyst but even with her eggs we didn't get any left over embryos to freeze. We were successful on the 2nd try but had a m/c at 10 weeks probably due to unviable embryo.

    For our third and final cycle with my sister we talked with the embryologist beforehand about our feelings that we would never get any to freeze if we tried to go to blastocyst and we felt we were throwing away possible babies. She agreed to do a 2 day transfer and freeze the remainder for our backup. Prior to this experience, we had never had the opportunity to discuss with an embryologist other factors that we may need to take into our decision on when to transfer. Some clinics just assume a day 5 transfer if you don't question them up front or even look at what your results are day by day after transfer.

    Amazingly on our final egg donor cycle with one 2 day 4 cell embryo we are now 8 months pregnant with 3 frosties in the fridge.

    For us it came down to realising that even with my sister as a donor our chances of doing any more than transferring one day 5 embryo was slim and that we needed to give her the respect of giving the other embryos their chance too by freezing early and transferring early.

    I think the decision for 2/3 day versus 5 day transfer has to take into account your previous cycle history if you have one, plus how many embryos you manage to create at day 1. If you only have 2-4 embryos at day 2 then IMO put the best one back as they are better off in you than in a petri dish which may not give them the best chance to get them to implant and create a baby. However, if you have 10-12 embryos at day 1-2 then there is more chance you will be able to choose the best embryo for transfer at day 5 and also have some put in the freezer (although this is never guaranteed).

    Many Australian clinics these days have very strict rules about freezing embryos (in particular blastocysts) that only meet the highest of criteria. So even if you have a lovely looking day 5 blastocyst if it doesn't exhibit the criteria they want on day 6 they will discard it rather than freeze it. Many people are very disappointed on hearing that their Day 6 embryo(s) didn't make the grade and were not saved. I have my own thoughts about why this criteria has been developed, based on science and clinic's 'success' statistics but not taking into consideration that even with a lower chance of an embryo surviving thaw that it still represent the hope of a child of many IF couples who, like us, had limited chances or choices to do further cycles whether it be because of poor egg quality numbers, health implications or just running out of funds to do endless cycles.

    These are just my thoughts.

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