IVF with very high FSH?

Hi Tigga, Im so sorry there wasnt better news at your scan & some FS bedside manners leave a lot to be desired! I think all of your concerns are very valid and I believe I would feel the same way if I were in your position. In relation to going to epu, I would say to go for it, I know it sounds tripe but it really only does take 1. I have gone to both my epus with the risk that I might not get any eggs, even with 9 follicles!. Also, the $ issues you raised have certainly gone through my head more than once, but at this point in time Im just happy to pay it as it gives me a chance at conceiving that we wouldnt have had on our own. I really wish that I had some better advice for you as i know EXACTLY how you feel. Thinking of you. Best of luck for Monday

Sara- Hope everything is well & TWW is treating you kind. Best of luck with your BT

Hello to BDT, Buliej, CP. Hope you all are well

AFM- just waiting patiently until June when Ill be starting a new cycle.:clap: I believe we wont be doing an antagonist anymore just a flare again. Not sure why but I will ask at my next FS appt 3rd June

Dutchie,

Sorry but you're talking about two things that I am at the moment looking into so just wondering if you could help me - when you're saying that you had the risk of having no eggs even with nine follicles are you saying that you also experienced empty folilcel syndrom as I I did this cycle ( I also had about nine follicle of them seven good size but only two mature eggs) . If that happened to you as well has your FS suggested anything to help avoiding this?
Would also be interested in how a flare cycle works as wondering if I shoudl try one instead an antagonist one next time.

Tigga :hug: Hope you are able to distract yourself over the weekend.

:hello: BDT & Buliej & Cpie

Sara

Thanks everyone for your support and feedback - I really appreciate it.

buliej - I'm sorry to hear about your M/C. Hopefully they find a reason so that you can work on it for next time - but sometimes sadly they just happen for no reason.

IUI is a an option for us, but past 3 have all been BFN's. I'm sure the FS's decisions aren't influenced by $$$'s - but sometimes I do question it. Since the safety net the fee's have gone up ridiculously at my clinic - I wonder if they'll drop them back if the safety net gets abolished (fingers crossed it doesn't) - it's an added stress we all could do without.

Sara69 - Another protocol I could try is Antagonist but this time without pill at start. My instinct did tell me to avoid the pill. FS said he doesn't think it would make a difference, but is willing to give it a shot without the pill next time. Are you still in 2ww? I hope it's a BFP for you - it would be awesome to hear that news from you!!! It would sure boost the hope for those of us battling high FSH!

Dutchie - the way this year's moving...June will be here before you know it. Good luck!!

AFM, today's scan showed 16mm in one ovary and a 12mm in the other. The clinic has 'pencilled me in' to trigger on Wed with EPU on Friday. There is a very slim chance that the smaller one might have something in it - but FS is banking on the larger one. I've decided to wait for BT results today, ask for a scan on Wednesday (am) and then make a call on Wednesday on whether we go IVF(ICSI due to low egg count) or convert to IUI.

I think all I can do now is :pray:!

Tigga: If you go for EPU I'd defintiely try to get the smaller one as well - the difference is not too great and if they grow by 0.15mm per day as they usually do you might have a chance if you wait a bit longer - do they do EPU's on Saturday and Sunday?

Beore my EPU I did things to boost my estrogen level to get the smaller ones to grow quickly - one tip I got was to take a few sniffs per day of 100% pure geranium oil and to drink one cup of black tea per day - my estrogen levels went up through those measures - have a look in the IVF with PGD thread if you like more info.

Sara

Thanks Sara.

My BT results today showed Est at 1789. FN wants me to do BT on Weds morning and FS will scan me then too to ensure all is still on track before I trigger. She mentioned that Pg is on rise (at 3.6 today) and wants to check Bloods on Wed to just ENSURE that I haven't o'd????? I asked can that really happen when you're on Orgalutran? She said it would be very rare - but with me nothing would surprise her! So, at the moment, I think our decision would be to go through to EPU - but I suppose the final call can only be made on Wednesday on whether we go IVF(ICSI due to low egg count) or convert to IUI OR by some freak I've already o'd...and that would make me scream. I don't know if they do EPU's on Sat/Sun...geez, you'd think they would??? Tell you what, if the follie size is still on the smaller size of optimum at Wed's scan - I will be pushing for a weekend EPU! Did the remedies make the follies grow faster for you? Also, when's your PBT due? I've got my fingers crossed for you!!!!

Tigga: The remedies did help for me - but as you know many of my follies didn't contain eggs. My clinic does EPU's on Saturday's, Sundays and most public holidays, my ET was on Easter Monday. Keeping fingers corssed for you on Wednesday.

Sara

Hi all

Tigga - fingers crossed that your 2nd follicle will grow

Dutchie - I hope to be cycling in June as well - not quite sure what kind of cycle (probably just clomid assisted - although I am interested in talking to my FS about doing another Flare cycle as I will have been taking DHEA & Royal Jelly for almost 3 months at that point and that could :pray: make a difference - and I would very much like a shot of having more than 1 egg. I think that the only difference with Flare & Antagonist (without birth control pill) is that with Flare you start with syranol on day 2 to stop ovulation whereas with Antagonist you don't - the idea is that your are more in sync with your natural state with Antagonist. Because of this, they have to monitor you more closely with Antagonist so that they don't miss O date as they need to pick up the eggs before they are released.

Hi Sara, Ms Pink, C'Pie and everyone else.

Thanks for your support girls, it's a BFN, pretty depressed about it but was prepared as POAS yesterday.

Sara

Hi Sara,

I am sooooo bummed to hear your news!! Aaaaaarggh!! :wall: It just makes me angry and sad at the same time...why does crappy things happen to good people?? I am really sorry you have to go through this and I hope you get your break soon. Take care of yourself and if you need to vent...we're here and feeling it with you!!
:grouphug:

Thank you Tigga, how did your scan go - hope you have made a decision that you're happy with.

Sara

Hi everyone

Sara- :hug: to you. Im so sorry to hear it was a BFN this month, I was really hoping that your blastie was to be the one. Its nice to see you are already moving forward with a new plan.
Regarding the flare cycle you were asking about- I have done 2 and my next cycle will also be a flare, all cycles were without the OCP. I had my best results to date with the flare cycle and my worst cycle to date also with a flare, it takes a little under 4 weeks beginning with synarel on day 2 and FSH jabs on day 3. My clinic ALWAYS tests my FSH on day 2 and those results determine whether I can cycle. My understanding of a flare cycle is this- It is named a flare cycle because of an initial "flare up" response of FSH & LH from our own pituitary gland usually within 3 days of synarel administration. After this time, the synarel actually prevents the release of FSH & LH from our brains. The FSH (Gonal F) is started on the following day. The idea is that the synarel will stimulate the release of a large amount of FSH (& LH) that will "flare up" the follicles so that we might have better stimulation results.
In regards to EFS (empty follicle syndrome)- My first flare cycle produced 9 follicles in total. When the nurses rang after my stim scan, they actually only gave me the size of 4 of my follicles being 17, 16, 14 and 10mm with the rest all being under 10mm. My problem seems to be that the majority of my follies just arent reaching a big enough size to yield a mature egg, rather than all of them being empty. I have asked why and what we could do to get them to grow at a more even, steady rate and again I was met with "we dont know" ( I get that a lot). Whether it is related to high FSH, I just dont know.
I hope this all made sense and was of some help to you.

Tigga- Im with Sara, I would try to get the smaller follicle to maturity as well as it isnt far behind your biggest follie. Wishing you luck for your upcoming epu Ill be thinking of you

:hello: to BDT, CP and Buliej- thankyou for explaining the antagonist for me. As I said Im not sure why the clinic wont try an antagonist with me but TBH Im really tired of trying to figure out what to do next what we should try, what we shouldnt, Im just going to go with the flow, leave it in their capable hands and trust that they know what they're doing

Dutchie, Thank you very much for the explanation of the flare cycle, that is very helpful.

About the empty follicle syndrom I think what you are talking about is something different, it is quite normal that a number of follicles are not big enough, but I actually had about nine follicles over 16 cm but only two mature eggs. About the problem with the different sizes I have heard about a protocol called estrogen priming that they do in the US and that is supposed to help with this problem.

Please don't take that the wrong way but when reading your comments I was becoming concerned about you and wondering if you're in the best hands - i wouldn't be happy with this answer "I don't know" - sometimes it makes sense to consult someone for a second opinion or even to change FS - I am currently considering this. I think Buliej has just changed from Melbourne IVF to Monash.

Sending lots of :bluedust:

Sara

Hello everyone

Tigga- any news yet? Have you had epu? Wondering how you are doing, I hope ok.

Sara- Thankyou for your concern, its touching and totally not taken the wrong way. Im not so happy either with the "I dont know" answer to most of my questions. I also asked about EPP ( I too have read about it) and was told that going on the pill in a down reg cycle was the same as EPP and basically dismissed it as I responded so poorly on a down reg cycle.
Getting a second opinion or even changing clinics to MonashIVF is definitely something I have considered before now, its just that now is not an optimum time to change clinics because of other reasons ( I suppose I could get another opinion) but I wouldnt be able to cycle with them until the issue resolves, until then Im prepared to stay with MIVF. I am going to insist though that Im listened to and that my questions are answered to the best of their ability at all future appts with current FS.
On another topic, baffled as to why you only got 2 eggs out of 9 mature size follicles. I havent read a lot about EFS.

:hello: to BDT, CPie and Buliej

Hi All,

Here's my update:
Wednesday 22/4: Scan showed I had two follies (one in each ovary)...the smaller one had caught up and was 17mm and the other one was 19mm (est was 2869).
Friday 24/4: At EPU we got two eggs and decided to do ICSI.
Saturday: Clinic rang and told us one had fertilised. We had one perfect 2 cell! The other one was too immature so they didn't even inject it.
Sunday: After an anxious wait, clinic called and said it was a 4 cell.
Today: Had an 8 cell embie transferred. :clap: Had acupuncture after and feeling really relaxed and hoping to keep it that way until all is revealed with PBT on Fri 8/5.

I'm wrapped I've made it this far - now I am going to :pray: for a positive outcome. And :pray: for positive outcomes for all of us on this ride.

Dutchie - I hate when clinics give us the "I don't know" - I too cop a lot of it.

Hi to everyone. Where is everyone at at the moment?

Tigga - that's fantastic - good luck and sticky vibes.

Hi to everyone else!

...and Dutchie - I agree - "I don't know" is just not good enough - they don't have to know for sure but they should be able to give you some reasons why it may be! That is very frustrating.

Tigga, that is really great, keeping everything crossed for you.

Sara

Tigga, so glad you've made it to TWW, everything is crossed for you!

:hello:

Tigga- Absolutely fantastic :happyforyou: enjoy your TWW with lots of R&R and Ill be :pray: with :crossfingers: for your BT I am just THRILLED for you Tigga:dance:

:hello: to Sara, Buliej and CPie I hope you are all well

AFM- Well, my CD2 FSH this month was a good 6.8 :clap: quietly very happy with that. Still hoping to cycle again in June when AF arrives. Have just been trying to be as healthy as possible, take my wheatgrass etc in the meantime.