Long Term TTC & Assisted Conception - July/August 09

Hi Everyone,

A me, me, me post today - sorry.....

This month was unsuccessful....:crying: Started spotting on Wed (13DPO=11DP) and rang FS nurse who said to keep taking crinone until AF is established. I was shocked as I had secretly thought we had a great chance as I thought the problem was my 'plumbing' and we had by-passed that. Took a test both on Wed & Thurs... BFN. So of course, googled into the wee hours of the night hoping to find inspiration in BFN stories that turned into BFP's :wall:
Still had some tiny bit of hope until the early hours of today when AF settled in and made herself comfortable. I finished the crinone on Thurs night, so maybe that held off AF for a bit?
Will be back to try again, I haven't had a chance to speak to FS but believe that you need to take at least a month or so off before FET???? (Perhaps longer as our clinic has changed it's thawing process or something and previous patients waiting for FET have had to wait a few months, so there is a bit of a queue)

Had my gf and her little one staying for a few days when I found out.
Note to self: Not a great idea to have a 5 month old houseguest during the 2WW, not that I don't love my friend and her bub, but it was hard to have a bubba about 24/7 when you find out that your hopes have been squashed (for now anyway)

Sorry for lack of personal posts, but have my fingers crossed for you all will be popping my head back in (after it has recovered from all it's over-analysing)
Take care all of you and sending you tonnes of babydust

Hugs to you Tantee, Im sorry to hear af arrived

Hi Tantee - sorry to hear you got a BFN and I hear what you're saying with the little houseguest. All my work colleagues bring their grandkids in and wave them under my nose every week... I smile and put on a brave face but I just want to close my door and pull down my blind. They're really lovely ladies though...

Emerald Star - how are you doing? Hope the ET went well.

Jasminstar - sounds good! If you're bloated you must have lots of follies, right?

Loops12 - GL with the EPU Tuesday... you've got another 3 days for the follies to grow so you'll be fine. Let us know how you get on.

AFM - I'm feeling a little bloated too, but I think it has more to do with the chocolate i've been eating this past week. I swear the OCP made me twice as hungry as normal and i craved junk food. Glad to be off it. Another three weeks of it and I might not be able to find my waistline to give the jabs! :lol:

Daisie

Hi Ladies,

Hope you're all doing okay.

We've just come off our fifth FET TWW with another BFN. We're meeting with FS next week to discuss where to from here, just in case there's a reason for the BFNs. There's a few things on my mind - any thoughts or advice would be wonderful, although partly I'm just ranting.

So, firstly, I think I've been having chemical pregnancies. I think this because (TMI coming) my AF is full of heavy clots, and sometimes is late after 5 or 6 days of spotting. Only one of these can be confirmed as a chemical pregnancy, and that was after a FET in April because the BT picked up a high hCG reading (but not high enough to sustain a pregnancy). This cycle we've just finished has resulted in an unsually painful (excrutiatingly painful) AF with (again TMI) enormous clots. I hate it, it's painful and gross and messy. But, without a confirmed 'diagnosis' of chemical pregnancy (which I won't get because BT isn't until Monday) I don't know how I go about getting FS to consider this as a possibililty. I also don't really know what treatment there is for it - genetic testing? Is it worth it? Are chemical pregnancies really just a case of bad luck?

I should add, that for the three cycles where I think I've had a chemical pregnancy, my bbs have been sore and I've had a full bladder feeling leading up to AF arriving. This last week I've also felt mild nausea. Talk about a mind f***, thinking I'm pregnant only to start bleeding.

Another thing we're going to have to consider is that we did a stim cycle in January which resulted in 15 embryos - great number! We've lost three of them in the thaw, and 5 of them in FETs - so have 7 left. That's still a great number. But given the IVF caps coming in from 1 January 2010, should we be doing another stim cycle before then, to try and get as many as possible in the freezer before we have to fork out for it in 2010? I don't know if FS will be too keen on doing this when we've still go many in the freezer, but we're going to have to consider it - the difference in out-of-pocket expenses is about $3500, so it's a serious consideration.

Also, all our frozen embryos are Day 2's...our discussion with FS next week is going to include a discussion about whether we let them go to Day 5. I don't really know what the risks/benefits are of this, so I have a few questions in that regard.

I think that's all for now. Sorry to bombard everyone and hijack the thread. I hope you're all doing okay wherever you are with your treatment and cycles. GL and :hug: to you all for the coming weeks and months.

Seph

Hi Ladies,

Tantee, So sorry to hear about your disappointment. I was so hoping for happy news from you. Sending lots of cyber :hug: hopefully you won't have to wait too long for another try and hopefully success. Not the best idea to have a little one around :rolleyes:. God love you it must have been very hard. Hope you're recovering well.

Persephone1, my condolances to you too. Have you had a laporoscopy (sp?) done? Maybe theres something in the usterus not allowing it to stick. My FS has not paid much attention to the fact that my AF is much lighter than it used to be (even when ovulation confirmed) and along with the PCOS a couple of cysts have shown up in the uterus. I have done hycosy but I suspect endo. It's hard to be forceful about these things as they are the specialists but I think you should try to get more investigation if you can. That's not to say there is anything wrong but it may clear your mind or result in answers and ways ahead. Either way I understand your concerns regarding the cost next year and trying to get the most out of this year but don't push yourself too hard either. Best of luck in future trys whatever you decide to do. Sending you lots of luck :goodluck:

Daisie, so are you off the suppresants now? Sounds like you're on a different plan to me. And yes, hopefully you're right and it all the little follies working away down there causing the bloatedness but to be honest I would more likely blame the chocolate like you. ;) Bad I know but I've been a bit of a pig of late. I'm usually not a sweetie/choccie person but the past 6 or 7 months I've just been so bad; and I know it's bad for my fertility to be overweight so I should really back off. Could do with losing 10 kilos at this stage!

Seph, FWIW, I've always had heavy, painful periods. Since starting AC mine have generally been as you describe - excruciating (upgraded from plain old painful), heavy and clotted. All my BTs and HPTs have always been BFN, so I don't think what you're describing necessarily indicates chems. I would however be interested to hear what your Dr says about it if you ask.

Afm, I had my first acupuncture appointment today. She's keen for me to wait 4 months before doing another IVF, but (like others) I'm worried about the costs if we delay too long. Then again, if waiting longer will mean only doing 1 more... I wish I had a magic crystal ball.

Jasminstar - thanks for your encouragement. GL to you for your BT and U/S Tuesday - hoping you get lots of big follies and Im glad the Synarel has finally worked for you.
All the very best :crossfingers:

Tantee - sorry AF came hun, really feel for you. I know what its like to get a BFN - how it makes your heart sink - thinking of you :hug: Hang in there and GL for future cycles!

Daisie - thanks, I will let you know for sure how I go Tuesday. GL with the waistline and the injections - excited for you. Hope you have lots of follies developing.

Seph - I would suggest opening up a new thread on the chemical pregnancy topic because there are probably plenty of people on here that know a fair bit about it. Or there may be a thread somewhere on this already. I don't know much about this but Im sorry this keeps happening to you.
A fair point about doing another stim cycle before the cap - if you have the money then its probably a great idea. GL with whatever you decide. 7 is good to have though - so I hope one of these is your miracle. x

AFM - no more Synarel - yay. And hopefully I'll never have to use it again. Im on the Ovidrel injection tonight then nothing on Mon ready for EPU on Tuesday. Im a bit nervous but more excited than anything.:D

Hi all

I just thought I'd jump in about laparoscopy's and say... do it, if you have any inkling that it might be worth it. It does cost a lot of money (depending on who does it) but I tried for 3+ years to convince two FSs and two GPs that i might have endo and they ingnored me until a small cyst showed on my US. I lost at least 3 years of trying time cos I had endo. Having said, that... this is only my first round of IVF so I don't even know whether the endo was the cause of my problems... I had no outward symptoms of endo, but I was having 3 days of spotting (brown) before and after my period. That was it. I had been having this bizarre spotting for 3 or 4 years... and only after i came off the OCP. I only wish i'd been more forceful with my first FS and asked for the lap then, but I wasn't in a good place emotionally and I couldnt' handle it. Having said all that, a lap is not to be taken lightly, it took me 5 days to recover...

Seph, I read on one of the other threads that one of the girls had two embies transferred at once and got a BFP... I like the idea of growing them to day 5 if you can... it's a tough decison about whether to do another stim cycle before Jan. Maybe you could just prepay it and then if you get a BFP in the meantime they can refund? I haven't talked it over with my FS yet, but that's what I"m going to suggest if I get to Dec and not pg.

Jasminstar - I don't really understand all the different plans but I did 3 weeks of OCP and started Lucrin in the last week of OCP. Off the OCP (still on Lucrin) and waiting a few days so I get a bleed and then start the Puregon, hopefully Wed or Thurs next week. Then two weeks of Puregon b4 EPU. So I think EPU will be around 12 August... something like that.

Thinking of you all

Daisie

Hi Ladies,

Loops12 - I am so glad you get to go to the charity ball in honour of your sister. Good luck with your EPU. I will keep my :crossfingers: for you.

Jasminstar - :goodluck: with your BT & US on Tuesday. Hope you're going well on the Puregon and that it's not affecting you too much. I've only done 2 injections and have massive bruises from them! Can't believe the woman at your clinic!

mitf - hope you're also doing well with the Puregon. Thinking of you.

Tantee - I am sorry to hear of your BFN:hug: Sorry I can't help with when you can do a FET but I really hope that your clinic's new thawing process doesn't impact too badly on when you want to do it. That is such a hard part of the IVF process, when you are ready to roll, all guns blazing and the clinic can't fit you in.

Daisie - bloated doesn't cover it sometimes, does it? It's crazy! Hope you're doing well.

Seph -hijack away lovely:comfort: So sorry to hear that this attempt was unsuccessful for you. I don't have a lot of knowledge of the whole process yet as this is my 1st cycle, but I do believe that you have every right to be assertive, ask for what you want and to be informed.
I have some info on the pros of blastocysts (taken from my clinic's website so keep in mind that are very pro-blastie)

Blastocyst culture and transfer is a newer technique developed for IVF that maximises pregnancy rates while minimising the risk of multiple pregnancies. The ability to grow embryos for five days to the blastocyst stage of development in the laboratory, rather than the traditional two to three days, allows embryologists to determine with greater certainty which embryos are really the ?best? in terms of their potential for implantation.What are the advantages?Again the best way to describe the advantages is to give an example.If a woman has 15 eggs retrieved, an average of 10 will fertilise thefollowing day. It is impossible to determine at this point which ofthese 10 are most likely to implant and develop into a baby. On the traditional day of embryo transfer (day 2 or 3 after egg collection),perhaps 5 of the 10 embryos may be developing into apparentlygood embryos. All five embryos may look like they have the same potential. Two additional days in the blastocyst culture medium allowsthe natural selection process to continue. After 5 days of growth in the laboratory, perhaps 3 of the original 10 embryos may remain viable. This reduction is a normal part of human biology and also occurs inside the uterus, even when embryos are replaced earlier

As far as the changes to IVF funding through Medicare, I completely agree with trying to do another stim cycle before next year so long as your body, mind, and relationship are all in a good, strong place.



ATM - On my 3rd day of Puregon. Not sure of how I am reacting to it but felt unusually anxious yesterday when out at the shopping centre. I am always concerned about hormones as they tend to affect me quite badly so just trying to stay positive and take care of myself. I have been drinking Oral Hydration Salts x 1 sachet every morning and lots and lots of water to prevent OHSS. Trying the high-protein diet thing too (though I do love carbs - just trying to make them Low GI ones). Bak to school tomorrow as today is last day of holidays and have a BT in the morning to see how i am responding.

In response to Daisie's post -I agree wholeheartedly. My FS at our first appt after nearly 12 months TTC suggested that she flush dye through tubes to check patency. I had 2 options - under X ray or under lap. Pros for X-ray were cheaper, quicker and local (cons - very painful). Pros for lap - if sye doesn't progress through tubes, they can see why ( hopefully) and can also try to rectify in surgery. Having had 2 laps before, I wasn't turned off by surgery so chose that option. For me, the dye passed through my tubes perfectly but FS saw that my tubes were adhered to my ovaries and pelvic wall as a result of scar tissue from a laparotomy at age 18 where they had cut my ovaries open to remove dermoid cysts. She also saw that my ovaries are small. Also did a hyst and all was fine ( I have a nice uterus apparently!) Straight away she said IVF would be the only real way I could conceive. So my point is, they can see things, fix things and get a whole new angle. My out of pocket costs were $450 for anaethesist (Sp?) and $100 for pathology where she had cut out an old suture and had it tested to make sure it wasn't endo. ( But I do have top cover). The procedure was done at my clinic's day surgery facility and I was home by lunch. I know it's not as wasy as asking for it to be done but if it's offered, I think a lap & hyst are worth considering.

2 questions for everyone:
When do you usually have your 1st ultrasound when stimming?
Does anyone get dry mouth from Lucrin injections?

Sorry to anyone I haven't mentioned:grouphug:

TANTEE - Sorry about you BFN.:comfort: Good luck with your next cycle, hon.

DAISIE - Thanks for the positive vibes, and I know what you mean about checking the calender.....don't worry it will be here before you know it. Good Luck!

LOOPS12 - Thanks for your wishes too. Glad to hear ET will not interfere with your families charity ball. Your follies, by the way, sound like they're coming along nice and steady. They will be ready on Tuesday, i just know it. Good luck babe!

JASMINSTAR - thanks for your sticky vibes. Good luck with you BT / US and hope you get lots of great follies.....GOOD LUCK!!!!

PERSEPHONE1 - Sorry toread about you BFN. I personally think you should talk to your FS about the 5 day transfer (blastie), I DON't have any experience with this as this is my first IVF with 5 day transfer, however, from reserch and speaking to my FS they say if it makes it to blast then theres a better chance for implantation - maybe worth a try.;)

To anyone I've missed Good luck in your cycles!!!

AFM - Had ET on Saturday - i don't have any symptoms. Nothing to report really. Hoever I am considering doing a HPT on Friday. Is that toooooooooooo early?
_________________________
Me 40
right tube removed
DH 42
Normal
TTC #1 for 3 years

1x natural ectopic 2007
IUI #1 18 April 2009 :bfn:
IUI #2 19 May 2009 :bfn:
IVF #1 7 July 2009 :crossfingers:

Tantee - I am so sorry to hear about you BFN. Best wishes while you gather your thoughts and decide on the next steps. FX that next time will be the one. xo

Seph - Sorry to hear about your BFN also. It can be so frustrating to be taking all the steps and fell like you are getting no where. I don't know anything about chemical pregnancies (will have to google) but I too have had a few AF in the past with HUGE clots. However, since I had my Lap AF has been very different, much more normal and no big clots. I am not sure why but I had been thinking that it might have some thing to do with them doing a D&C, effectively cleaning my uterus out. Also, a good point about doing a stim cycle before the end of the year. I imagine may of us still seeking BFPs later this year will have to consider this option in Nov/Dec. GL and I hope your upcoming FS appointment results in some answers.

Emeralstar - glad to hear the EPU & ET went well. Try and avoid the HPT they are evil and could dash your hopes unnecessarily, it also gives you something else to agonise over. GL, my thoughts are with you and I look forward to hearing the good news in 2 weeks time!

Loops - Glad to hear things are going well and things fit in with your charity ball. GL with the EPU tomorrow!! I hope it all goes well and remember... quality not quantity!

Daise - Glad to hear the injections are going well. I am also checking the calendar and wishing the days would move more quickly.

Taurean - I completely understand! I was also feeling a little anxious at the supermarket last night. Wasn't felling the greatest and just wanted to return to the safety of home. I am not on Lucerin but have had a dry mouth on Synarel and am also trying to keep my fluids up. I can't believe the Puregon is giving you bruises. I haven't had that problem thankfully.

Juniper - I wish I had a crystal ball too! Would answer all our problems. GL with the acupuncture and your next steps.

Jasminstar - Glad to hear the double dose worked and you were able to move ahead with the Puregon. I am on 145 Puregon. GL with the BT / US tomorrow. I hope you get lots of A grade follies! Also re the choc/sweet craving - I have been struggling with this a bit also. We probably just need to break the cycle but with all the jabs and things the treats are surely deserved!

Vira & Theresep - I hope you are both well and your next steps are falling into place.

AFM - I have not been feeling the greatest, although I can't really say what the exact problem is. Just general feelings of tiredness, headaches, lethargic and sometimes it fells like my ovaries are swollen.... I guess because they are working overtime! My boobs are also feeling tender today. I have been trying to keep my fluids up and get plenty of rest. My mother & father in law is coming to stay tomorrow night and I am not really looking forward to that.

Just a quick one, has anyone used luveris for egg quality in conjuction with Gonal F?

Taureen - thanks heaps! And thanks for the info above - makes me feel very confident with the fact that we are doing five day transfer to blastie.
Hope your BT went well!

Emerald star - thanks heaps for your wishes too and wonderful support. I have faith that my follies will have developed well for tomorrow, ta.
I would stay away from the HPT's If i were you, they make you go nuts ive worked out - too stressful. Easier said than done though. :bluedust::pink-babydust:

Mitf - thanks for your wishes too - I will remember that - quality not quantity - cheers.
Sorry your not feeling the best - bloomin hormones etc. GL with the in-laws :goodluck:

Krikit - sorry havent heard about that stuff but GL with it.

Daisie - thanks. I hope you're doing well.

Hi to everyone else and :bluedust: to all x

Hi to all you wonderful women!

First day back at school after 3 beautiful weeks off, greeted by 24 happy 6 & 7 y.o.

Home now and absolutely shattered! Partly because work is a shock to my well-rested system but surely all these stims can't help?!

BT this morning went well and apparently it looks like the Puregon is doing what it's meant to,bringing up the oestrogen levels gradually.

Back in on Fri for B/T and U/S and if all goes well, it looks like EPU will be towards the end of next week.

Good luck to those doing EPUs and ETs in the next few days

Sorry no personals - just too tired! :grouphug:

Hi ladies,
Hope u all are doing well. Thanks a lot for all your thoughts.
Tantee- I am so sorry to hear that AF has arrived:hug:.Hope you feel better soon and do not have to wait long to continue your treatment.GL
Seph-I am sorry to hear about your BFN also:hug:.You must be going through a really frustrating phase and I hope you get some answers and are able to continue your treatment soon.
Emerald star-:crossfingers:, take it easy for a few days and try not to do a HPT before the day your clinic has suggested.Lots of Sticky Vibes.:stickyvibesgirl::stickyvibesboy:
Loops-Good luck for Tuesday's EPU.:D.I have read that follicles grow by a few mm each day so I hope by Tuesday you have enough mature follicles.:crossfingers:
Jasminstar-GL for your BT and US:crossfingers:
Taurean78 and Mitf -Sorry you are not feeling well with the harmones going crazy hope this leads to the deserved BFP and make this all well worth for.
Mitf-I hear what you say about having your in laws around in such a situation GL.
Krikit-sorry I don't know about Luveris, but i am sure one of our friends here will help you.Good luck.
Daisie,Wouldloveabubba and Juniper76 hope you are all doing well and all the best to you.
AFM-My FS has referred me back to the Gynaec. who originally did my Laproscopy and hysteroscopy to get her opinion on whether she agrees with the latest finding from the HyCoSy that I have a septum greater than 1 cm and if she agrees then I need to get it surgically removed make sure everything is okay and then go back to the FS.I am now waiting for an appointment from the Gynaec.

Sorry if I have missed anyone good luck to all and take care.

Hi All! I'm finally back in for my first FET!!! AF arrived with force today and it's a painful one!! I don't care though........bring on our Embryo. We have five day 5 blasy's in the cold!! Yeeeehhhhaaaaaaa!!!

Sorry for the barge in ladies :D

Loops - best of luck today hun, I believe they got a few for you and I will have everything crossed over the coming days, I told you about my dream so here's hoping. Sorry i was going to text you this morning but got distracted with work, hope your recovery over the coming days isn't too bad.

Give us a bell if you need anything at all.

Nae x x x x

Hi Ladies,

Thank you so much for your thoughts and help, it has been very heartwarming to come in here and know that I have your support - infertility can be so isolating IRL, so BB is getting me through.

Just thought I'd provide you with an update, having just come back from an appointment with the FS:

We have 7 Day 2 embryos in the freezer. FS agreed that after 5 FETs and 5 BFNs, it was time to move on to trying to get those 7 to blastie stage. We take the chances that only some or none of them will get to that stage, but it's worth a try.

This month however, we're going interstate on what would be the day before a blasty transfer...so this month will instead be our last attempt with a Day 2 emby, which we'll have just before we go on holiday. If that doesn't work, we'll be trying it with blasties next month and from then on.

I'm also going for an ultrasound to check if there's anything in my uterus that causes concern. I've had a lap and hyst before when they looked for endo about 3 years ago. They didn't find endo, but the surgeon at the time noted that my uterus is 'larger than average' and described it as 'bulging.' This is apparently neither here nor there, or at least regardless of me having a large uterus, there's nothing anyone can do about it if it is in fact causing infertility. But the scan will also look closer at the lining of my uterus and see if there's any cysts or other anomolies in there. Really just a scan for piece of mind I suppose.

As for the chemical pregnancies - FS sort of shrugged and said that it was possible. All my immunity tests came back clear. He reiterated that at the end of the day, it's down to the embryo whether it survives or not. He suggested that, heaven forbid we have to go for another stim cycle, they could do some chromosome testing at the point of EPU. Unfortunately they can't do that testing on frosties.

On the issue of whether we go back for another stim - apparently the legislation says that we can't intend for there to be more embryos in the freezer than we intend to have children - so the fact that we have 7 in the freezer means we can't really go for another stim cycle because it would be hard to argue that we wanted more than 7 children. FS was open to the idea that we do try another stim by the end of the year anyway, but we'll see - I suppose it will depend on how many make it to blasty - if very few make it, we'll be forced into another stim anyway.

If we go for another stim, I'm going to ask FS to consider a different protocol. In December/January we did a down-reg stim cycle which lasted for about 8 weeks. It resulted in 19 eggs, and I had mild OHSS. One of my friends who's doing IVF mentioned a more 'natural' stim cycle with less intervention, which might be worth a shot, and less 'interfering.' We'll see - hopefully we don't even have to get to that stage.

We also talked about transferring more than one emby. FS says it's neither here nor there for him as far as whether we accept the risk of twins. He is however more worried about the pressure and risk of twin pregnancies. He told me that one of his patients had only two embryos after a stim, and she had both transferred (partly on his advice)...she got a BFP but miscarried at 20 weeks. FS said he still grieves over that and whether he and the patient made the right decision. He said he would be happy to transfer two back for me, but wanted me to be aware of the risks...he's such a sweetie.

Okay, enough about me - thanks for reading this far, and thanks again for your support.

Vira, GL with the investigations. I hope some positives come out of this for you.

Taurean, thank you again for your PM, and all the best for EPU next week - take it easy, drink lots of water and get some rest!

Emerald Star - all the best in your TWW. :crossfingers: for you.

Tantee - I'm sorry about your BFN, and the fact that I totally hijacked the tread last week - and have now done it again. I hope you're doing okay and bouncing back. :hug: for you.

Everyone else - hi, hope you're cheery, keeping healthy and relaxed. Thinking of you all...and can't wait to share birth announcements with you one day.

Seph