Trying to Conceive with IUI #3

Well that sounds promising indeed. I know we clutch at straws, but we have to hope for something hey. Every twitch, every pain, and i think ' is this my baby?' But I am hoping and praying that this is it for you Op.

My story? Well, ttc since april 06 now, just over 2.5 years. Diagnosed with mild endo, 2 lap surgerys to remove, last surgery that could not remove it because of the position. But only mild endo, tubes are not blocked, cycle VERY regular but extremelly painful.Huddys count is very good. Not one positive test the whole time, except for the one last month. So, Dr Lahood at IVFA says that whilst it could be unexplained infertility, it could also be the endo. Hence the IUI path...

Thanks for your suggestion. I started taking the Natures Own pregnancy multivitamin when we got a positive at the end of the last cycle (which didnt stick around). It has everything in it, inc B group and iron. They have really helped pick me up especially when on the fsh injections.

Here's what I take and why:

1 x Nourishing flora probiotic - promote colonic health
2 x Bioceuticals InNatal - Pregnancy formula inc 500iul folate
3 x EPA DHA Fish Oil 1000iul strength - cell formation
1 x Thorntons Kelp - thyroid function which is key to hormone production
1 x Bioceauticals Zinc Sustain - cell formation
1 x Iron & Folate - blood vitality
1 x Thompsons B6 - luteal support
1 x Go Vita in house CoQ10 - cardiac health
1 x 1000mg Cenovis Vitamin C - immune system booster
1 x Bioceuticals Lipoic Acid - liver cleanser to help hormone production

All of this was prescribed by my naturopath, plus tonics but I stopped getting stuff from her early this year because it was sending me broke. The extra iron and folate plus the lipoic acid are the keys. Not sure if you've looked at how hormones are produced, but basically the pituitary talks to the thyroid which talks to the ovaries and together they get the job done. So anything that supports correct function is a good idea.

On the endo front - my girlfriend from high school produced two healthy children with it. While conception is not easy, I really believe any challenge can be over come - just reading the stories on this site proves it. Remember - in nature it would take the average couple 6-12 months to conceive. So I believe at least 6mths IUI is the bare minimum before moving to another treatment.

The problem for LTTTC people is the psychological impact. 12mths of natural approach destroyed our intimate relationship and has left my husband with performance anxiety (not permanent I hope). Even if we were biologically capable, psychologically the game was up some time ago. And to keep going that way would have cost us our marriage.

In any case, the metallic taste in my mouth is growing stronger as the day wear's on. It's an encouraging symptom.

:-)
P.

Hiya Diamond! How'd you go with your shot last night?

Mine was a real stinger this morning. That's it for me til Monday - PG test on Monday and probably one more Pregnyl. Then we'll know what's happening.

Cheers,
P.

Hi There OP,

Well, the shot was awful!! They are a bit worse than the fsh ones hey? I was feeling great before it, and then immediately after huge cramping, itchy and sore at injection site (still is a little), gassy, then couldnt sleep cause of the cramps!! And I only just started feeling better after the fsh shots - and straight back into it. Well, as you say, it cant be worse than childbirth so I just have to put it up.

Yay - only one more left for you and then your preg test. I am so positive for you, your symptons sound very positive. Last month I got all the preg symptons except the metallic taste, and the clinic told me all the cramps etc were from the hcg shots. So, the fact that the metallic taste is strong is a great sign as the hcg can not replicate this.

Wow - that list must have sent you broke! Is that a daily list? Why do you take 2 x preg multi daily? And why do you add iron & folate on top? Is it possible to take too much?

yes i do feel that LTTTC has affected us. We ofter find ourselves refering to our 'romance time' as pre-ttc and then post ttc. The whole pressure of timing really took the romance out. IUI has actually helped that though - Im not sure why, maybe just knowing that we have some help. I find I am constantly trying to make sure that infertility does not drive a wedge between us - not easy. Everytime we fight, even about something unrelated, the first thing he says is 'no more ttc', which has now progressed to 'no more ivf'. But having said that, I do believe that it has actually helped us grow stronger. We have learnt more about each other, and faced this battle together. When we come out at the other side, with our baby in our arms, I hope this will translate into parenthood. That we will appreciate our miracle that much more...

Well keep in touch. I hope this weekend flys for you and you get your preg result in no time. Remember I am here if you need a chat to help pass the time :)

Pregnyl shots suck. My midwife put it in a very whacky spot today. I've had them hit my sciatic nerve a couple of times which causes shooting pains right down to the back of my knee.

The metallic taste has gone today. And if I get up the wrong way I get shocking cramps through my abdomen. I reserve judgement, but I've had this before and it wasn't good.

We do an FSH free cycle next month. I'm going to ask them to give the Pregnyl a break too. I'm sick to death of the needles. The Early Pregnancy Clinic is opposite the Fertility Clinic - they treat people who are bleeding or have miscarried. We find ourselves telling them what time the staff are in, turning the telly on for them and consoling them. Sheesh! We might as well get a job their as the receptionists!

I asked today if I could take the Pregnyl with me if I went on a holiday and they said yes - flight attendants do it all the time. So might get a weekend away in the next month. Man I need it!

:-)
P.

PG test this morning. Counting down til the results. We honestly don't know which way it's going to go. Won't be surprised by a negative. Will be floored by a postive. Stay tuned. ;-) P.

Hi Op,

Good luck today - i have been thinking of you. Do you know when they will give you the results?

Had my prog test today, results just came back at 64. So all good there... counting down now to my preg test. Absolutely no symptons. Have been very run down though and am getting some sort of flu or head cold.

Well I am thinking of you - cant wait to hear your results. Hopefully they will contact you soon and give you a BFP!!!

Hi Diamond!

64 is an excellent progesterone result! You are in the game!!!! Now lets see that keep going up!

The results for me are total BS. HCG 48, Prog 13 which is officially a positive, but to me this is a clear negative. You can't have an embryo if the progesterone is below 40. But the stupid scientist wants me to get another pregnyl shot and have another PG test on Wednesday. If HCG is double, then it's a postive. The chances of this happening are zip so I am totally against this course of action. I think it's a waste of resources and time, and will mean I end up with a 35 day cycle. I've had that before and it's utterly depressing.

Sigh.
P.

OP,

Dont despair! You have a positive. The Dr says it is a positive - so you can not deny that.

I was in the same shoes as you at the end of my 1st IUI cycle, however, my hcg was only 18 (dont know my prog results). The clinic told me, cause it was so low, that it probably would not progress and unfortunately they were right. But there are many others out there, here on BB, who have had a low hcg readings and then progressed onto healthy pregnancies. Stranger things have happened OP, and it could still happen for you.

I understand your despair though - I too felt this way after my 18 hcg reading and kind of just knew it wasnt to be. I understand what your going through (and I hope Im helping).

I spoke a bit with the nurse this morning about prog readings and what they mean etc. My mind is so muddled right now from this cold I am trying to remember the conversation. She said the hcg shot helps the body to produce prog, so clearly the reading will be higher than normal. Once your body comes off the hcg, the prog level will dip as you body naturally produces it. This may explain the drop in your levels. I hope this helps. Hang in there ok....

Here is some very good information about the role of hCG in confirming a pregnancy:

"hCG is produced by the trophoblast cells of the placenta. hCG production starts at an early stage of development, just a few days after conception, before implantation in the uterus. hCG enters the maternal circulation almost immediately after implantation of the embryo (blastocyst) on about day 21 of the menstrual cycle. hCG is approximately eighty times more potent than its sister hormone produced by the pituitary gland, lutenizing hormone (LH). The tiny amount of hCG that enters the maternal circulation on day 21 (<5 mIU/ml in serum or plasma, while too small to be detected by pregnancy tests, is sufficient to stimulate the corpus luteum of the ovary to produce progesterone. The concentration of hCG in the circulation then rises in an exponential manner, doubling approximately every two days. By day 28 (first day of missed menses) the median hCG level in serum, plasma or urine is about 100 mIU/ml. This should be detectable by all pregnancy tests. At this time, the extremes of normal levels are approximately 5 to 450 mIU/ml in serum or plasma samples. For this reason we suggest waiting 3 days, until day 31 (31 days since start of last period, or 3 days after missing a period) before having an hCG test. This way one can tell if one has a true pregnancy (clinical pregnancy). Circulating hCG concentration continues to increase exponentially (doubling about every 2 days). It reaches a peak at about 10 week of gestation (since last menstrual period). At which time the median hCG concentration in serum or plasma samples is around 60,000 mIU/ml. "

This site show the ranges of hCG for each week of pregnancy. Obviously the higher on the scale the more likely the pregnancy will proceed, the lower, it will drop out.

What is beta hCG?

Hi OP,

how are you feeling today? I hope a bit better.

The notes you have mentioned are consistent with your results right now. Unfortunately you are in a crappy limbo stage as not much more can be found out till your next test tomorrow. You just need to hang in there right now and try to be positive (easier said than done I know!)

The notes below do not mention much about prog readings though - and to be honest, the first I heard of this hormone being a significant indictaion of a pregnancy is from yourself. I was always advised that day 21 test just meant that I ovulated. The reason I am saying this is because your prog levels cause you believe there is no success this month. I hope for your case that you are wrong. Did you find any additional info on this topic?

As for me... I am also in limbo. My pregnancy test is not until Nov 5, over a week away. I am totally wiped out with some head cold or flu, and no symptons whatsoever! I am going to go insane over the next week waiting!!!!

You know, I've had multiple head colds right on ovulation or transfer time over the past year. What's with that?? Im sorry you're feeling poorly! Do you work? Or do you get to lie in bed and just be ill?

I went looking last night for the website I found two months back showing the gestational ranges for both progesterone and hCG. Our naturopath frequently had us do day 21 prog tests and because we're in possession of the results, we have the lab notes to refer to. The gestational range for progesterone is 37-203. The hCG stimulates the luteus corpum (the egg) to create progesterone. It's purpose is to thicken the endometrium and to feed the embryo (hCG also thickens the endometrium). A good embryo produces loads of progesterone. In your case, it looks like you've got a good one!

We were lucky to see the head of our program this morning - she agreed my results were not positive, and she also felt the pregnyl shot today was a waste of time. But she gave it to me anyway and told me not to come back until Thursday for a PG test. I told her I wouldn't accept any more pregnyl unless the test result showed hCG had doubled. We are looking for a 95 on that test. I do not expect it.

She gave me the "age" lecture again this morning. I blocked my ears. All my school friends are having first and second babies, thanks to their fertile husbands. I am healthy. I have never smoked. I rarely drink. So age is bunkem if you ask me.

She also told us at a fertility conference last week the IVF doctors were saying they are going for less drugs to catch three good eggs instead of loads of not so good ones. My husband cleverly pointed out this means you have to do IVF ocyte collection (the expensive cycle) more often, which means more money for them. When we did IVF, I produced 16 eggs, 14 of which were mature ie good. 12 actually fertilised. 4 grew into blastocysts (25% of the harvest) to freeze, 50% of which never survived thawing. Imagine if there had only been three eggs in the first place? 25% of 3 isn't even one egg.

ANYWAY! Take good care of yourself. I'll let you know how things go on Thursday.

Cheers,
P.

Op - you are such a wealth of knowledge!

Funny how you have also been plagued with colds. Ttc must wear our system down a bit so we are more suseptable (spelling?) to them. I think I am very worn down this cycle...Unfortunately yes I do work, but only 4 days a week. I get tomorrow off to rest up.

I understand what you are saying about the prog now. Funny that the IVF clinic has not mentioned this at my last hcg test. I shall remember to ask for these results next time. I suppose it helps to have all your lab results in your hands also.

Im sorry to hear they put you through the lecture this morning - you are right to block those sorts of things out. I agree that age is not a primary issue with fertility. A close friend of mine has a 8 wk old healthy baby boy, and she is 41. You need to block that negativity and focus on the positive. I think the clinics are far more obsessed with statistics and this causes generalisations, it is the nature of their business.

You too take care, remember Im hear if you need a chat.

dont know what that angry face is above my last post...dont know how I put it there... sorry about that

I was just looking at a photo of Tom Cruise and his baby, Suri. You know, he was hopelessly infertile, and he's got a baby!

Then there's the story of the couple who tried for four years, with 7 cycles of IVF. They resorted to surrogacy, and had one last transfer themselves and got: two sets of twins!!!

Mircles, miracles, miracles! They do happen. I honestly wish there was some treatment to help my darling husband. We did some good work with the naturopath - we increased his count from 9mill to 28mill. But they were still slow swimmers and malformed. Our chances of conceiving naturally with his sperm are 0.0124%. This crappy little statistic will never stop me hoping.

Sigh!
P.

PS - I think the stress/excitement of treatment is what makes us ill right when it counts. Then again, a colleague told me she fell pregnant when she was bedridden with denghi fever!!!

how right you are OP. Miracles happen all the time. Did you see the article on Jessica Rowe yesterday? After going through IVF hell (dont know her story though), she has now concieved naturally. An incredible story - I am over the moon for her and over the moon to hear things like this can and do happen. And of course there is the old anecdote: 'as soon as you stop trying it will happen'! How many million times have i heard that. But how do you stop trying? How can you stop doing what comes natural now after trying for so very long?

My odds are 5% chance of concieving naturally, not as low as yours but still fairly bleak. This is based on the number of cycles passed with no success (i think). Again, a statistics and numbers game. Who knows how accurate they are. Surely Jessica Rowe would have had a low chance of concieving naturally....I wonder what her odds were...

What about Nicole Kidman? 40 years old, only one tube: miracle.

A friend of mine - 3 IVF cycles, one tube. She gave up and voila: miracle.

Another friend - tried for 8 years, gave up, adopted and voila: a miracle.

I have heard stories of many many miracles. They DO happen. I told my husband there were many times I thought I wasn't getting married. And right when I gave up, he came along. So, miracles HAVE happened to me. They can happen again.

I think I've said it before: its a numbers game. We have tried 36 times and failed. We have 7 or 8 more tries with our current program before we have to switch strategies again. I have faith.

Thanks for listening today. It's really helped me come out of a nose dive!

:-)
P.

sure OP - happy to be here. Im glad you feel better and you sound more positive too. Miracles can and do happen so dont forget that you are always in the game.

I am at home today, trying to recover from this head cold flu thing. Have no got even 1 sympton, which is starting to bother me cause I should be dpo 9 and last month I had almost every sympton under the sun. Oh well, time will only tell hey. Got my third and final pregnl shot tonight also .... yuk....

Good luck for tomorrow - I hope it all goes well and you come back with big hcg numbers. Am thinking of you