Toilet Training. Advice, tips EVERYTHING needed.

DD turned 3 in March. She understands what it means to go to the toilet. She has the capacity to hold on. But she simply refuses to go. Here's a breakdown of what's going on -

- When quizzed, she answers that wees and poos go in the potty/toilet

- When she watches other kids use the toilet or potty, she claps her hands and tells them "Well done"

- She will not go in her nappy in the presence of anyone. This is becoming a problem - my main reason for wanting to get seriously cracking on this. She will get to the point that she's doubled over, screaming and protesting because she won't let go when there is someone around.

- Tried the 3 day potty training method in February (complete nappy elimination, me beside her 24/7, positive encouragement, rewards). After the sixth day, I gave up through exhaustion. She did wees on the potty twice in that week. She held onto wee for 21 hours and poo for 4 days.

- She doesn't care if she has an accident in her undies. Just continues on with whatever she's doing, doesn't say anything about it and I'll just discover her with wet pants and a puddle on the floor. She usually goes when I'm tied up with something. When asked if she's supposed to do wees on the potty or on the floor, she says the potty and then she'll sometimes say "Oops".

- Gets her dolls to go on the potty in the dolls house and tells them how good they are when they go.

- Applauds me when I use the toilet

- Instructs me when I get up in the morning to go to the toilet and even goes and opens the door

- We get her to choose her undies and the potty is always in the same spot in the bathroom (she gets upset if we move it into a more common area)

- Tells our dogs off for doing wee or poo on the ground

- The promise of rewards (stickers, chocolate, buying a toy at the shop) mean nothing. We haven't really had to use a reward system before although the other night she did eat her dinner because we offered ice cream if she did - an absolute first.

- Sometimes tells me in the morning that she wants to get dressed and to change her nappy. On the flip side though, if she's in undies, she'll ask for her pajamas to be put on because she knows a nappy goes on.

- If she requests a nappy on and we know she needs to go and put her on the potty, she can sit there for hours, alternatively screaming and chatting away to herself.

Where do I go from here? She is a great communicator, her language skills are sensational. She understands simple instructions. She cleans up after herself. She's starting to write numbers for goodness sakes! She has a fantastic memory, can direct us to locations from home. But she's just not getting this. She is very headstrong. She has a potty training book that she can recite.

I've tried to be supportive ("oh well, never mind, we'll try again next time"; "that's okay, accidents happen"). I've tried getting cross with her ("mummy is sad that you didn't try to use the potty"; "DD can't go to school if you don't use the toilet"). Neither way has any sort of impact. My mum has tried to take her - she bolts. My 3 1/2 year old niece has even tried to take her, and she bolts.

WHAT DO I DO????? And if she's beyond me teaching her, then where can I outsource help from?

I dont really have the answer, except to say they do learn in thier own time. She sounds like she is doing well being aware of where to go to the toilet. I am trying to TT DS at the moment ( he turns 3 in sep ) and he is great during the day with no undies or anything on ( he will take himself to the potty and do wees ) but the minute you put undies or pants on he will just wet them!. We havent got number 2's in the potty yet. It is very hard when you hear other people talking about how they are potty trained already, you start to question your child. It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job and hopefully she will do it in her own time. Sorry this wasnt helpfull I just wanted to come and say that I understand your situation in some ways.
Good luck

Have you tried sticker charts and other such bribery? (Cars2 figures in our house)

Is there any need for her to be TT at the moment (i.e. kinder or something)?

I only ask because I cannot help you at all. I struggled for such a long time with DS1. He got the idea for months then regressed - completely. And for nearly a year. We still have issues with him not going when he needs to and then constantly doing little wees in his undies. He's just turned four.

DS2 decided that he would do it all himself. He just started waking up in the morning dry at 20 months, and so i took his nappy off and we never looked back. Ok, so he's not perfect, but we have not endured the tears, trauma, guilt, anger etc that we had with DS1.

DS2 is fully dry day and night. DS1 is still wet at night and has many little accidents.

So, i guess i can say that i am really all for giving it a go, having it all there ready and waiting, but if it doesn't work, don't push it. Just try again later. And again, and again. Until one day it'll all work and it will have been a lot less frustrating.

The urgency for it at the moment is she's ending up in pain from holding on when there is someone around. In the next couple of months we're moving in with my mum, so the determination for her to hold on will only get worse.

I'd just put her back in nappies for a while and then try again. You sound very tense and stressed about it which is utterly normal and your DD can probably see that you're upset about but not really get why it's a big deal. If you go back to nappies for a while you can both unwind a bit and let the situation defuse and then try again later.
Do you use cloth or sposies? If you use sposies there are pull-on nappies that you can use so if she wants to use the potty she can. There are also cloth training pants.

My DS2 never used a potty - we put a step beside the loo and a little seat in it. Maybe that might help.

Can you just tell her to go to a different room and let go rather than holding it in until she's alone?

I agree with Onyx - Put her back in nappies, don't think about for how long for at the moment, - with DD (who took over eight months to toilet train when everyone around her was toilet training in what appeared to be one day!). We had zero nappies except for at night for over 14 weeks, I was consistent and tried EVERYTHING, but it didn't work, and unlike you I didn't have her holding on which I can imagine is compounding the problem and stress for you both. I just told her we were going back into nappies until she felt like she wanted to wear knickers, then, a few weeks later (about 4-5 weeks) we started talking about not wearing nappies again and while it wasn't easy, it has slowly happened. I gave her the power to decide instead of fighting something she didn't want to do. Ignore the age of your DD or comparison to other kids, they all do things in their own time (believe me I know how hard it is to do this). You have done a GREAT job trying all these options and your beautiful, articulate little girl will get there, she just needs to do it in her own time. GL

Onyx - You're right, I'm feeling very frustrated by it all. I went from having a baby who despised being in a wet nappy, who'd carry on a treat until it was removed, day or night, to the same child who would now walk around in her own muck all day if I let her. Pull ups aren't really an option so much now. She hangs on for so long that if she goes in a pull-up, there's a lot of overflow She's in sposies. We have the step beside the loo - she doesn't want a bar of it, but she will sit on the potty so I don't want to push her on the actual toilet. On Sunday we were at mum's place and had a friend and her daughter over, DD went into a different room and cried and cried. None of us were in the room with her. I had asked her a few times if she wanted to go to the toilet and she just got more and more distressed. Left her alone for a while and she stopped crying somewhat abruptly - and I got a nappy full of wee.

Sunshine - She's in nappies at the moment. We do go in waves of it. When I feel like it's going downhill in undies, nappies go back on and I don't mention the toilet. I'll answer her questions or statements if she brings it up, but that's it. She's doing the crying thing regardless of if she's in nappies or undies.

My girls had a few unsuccesful attempts before they are ready, sometimes stopping for a bit and letting everything settle before trying again helps

It sounds like she needs privacy, my dd1 needed this which is really tricky when they are still learning. Have you tried letting her go on the potty toilet on her own?

Good luck I thinks ow how frustrating and challenging it can be

I agree with the others she doesnt sound ready and she also sounds nomal behaviour for that age it will pass. I also had some success with physically putting my DS onb the potty every half an hour which was a tiring three days but it paid off and once he finally let go and went it all clicked I would practise pushing noises and run taps to help him go even read storys to him
definatly worth a try with your DD

I think she probably knows what to do, but for some reason just doesn't want to right now. The start of your post sounds very much like my DD, and i know if i try to push her to do anything she does the opposite. For this reason, I am trying to let her lead with TT and even not getting too excited when she shows initiative. i am sure i will be asking you for advice in a few months!

PRMG, my dd was exactly the same! She was 4 before she would use the toilet and I tried EVERYTHING from bribery to taking her to a continence clinic and NOTHING worked.

My advice is to leave it. Don't talk about anything wee, poo or toilet related at all. She will do it when she's ready.

If you need to talk about or any kind help, pm me xx

Sararose - When she sits on the potty, we disappear. There's a wall that juts out in the bathroom and I can see her feet but she can't see me.

Mummabee - When we first started, we were putting her on the potty every 15 to 30 minutes. But I haven't tried it in a long time and I'm a bit spooked that it will put her off completely. I ran taps when we did the 3 day method, especially on the day she held on for hours. Had no impact. I tried putting warm water down the front of her when she sat on the potty but that didn't work either (I read that they feel the warm water trickling down, think that they've gone and then relax and actually do wee at that point)

HotI - That's where I sit. She knows what to do. She just won't do it. And I can't figure out if it's a power thing or not. She's normally very eager to please, so it doesn't make sense.

Tinks - Oh man. 4?? She has to go to kinder next year and she'll turn 4 in March! EEP! What was it that finally clicked with your DD? I'm wondering if when this baby arrives, she'll see the nappies on a newborn and decide that it's for babies.....hoping....hoping....

Yes, 4! I was so worried, I'd toilet trained 2 kids before her with no problems and I had no idea what I was doing wrong or why she wouldn't TT. She was about to start kinder and I was pretty stressed about her still wearing nappies. I had a meeting with the teachers about her wearing nappies, they were really really good about it.

She finally toilet trained because we were going swimming and she wanted to put her bathers on earlier that day. I told her that if she was going to wear her bathers alll day she'd have to use the toilet and she just did! She even came running to me while we were at the pool to go to the toilet. She had her 1st poo on the toilet at the swimming pool! She didn't have one single accident since that day.

It will click with your DD suddenly, just don't push it. She won't still be in nappies at her 21st birthday party

How is she going with the impending move and new bub? They don't recommend TT while huge changes are underway or upcoming, so perhaps putting her in nappies until the move is over and bub is here, and life becomes constant again? They are two big changes for a three year old. And as hard as it is, she WILL get it at some stage, and it doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong .

Tinks - Wow at the swimming pool! I live in hope!

Maruschke - She seems pretty excited about the move when we talk about it. She loves the idea that we will live at Nonna's house and we explain it a lot. We slept there on the weekend and she cried because she didn't want to leave so she's very comfortable there (and mum's away so staying with Nonna wasn't the drawcard). She talks about the baby all the time too, so it all seems very positive, but who knows.

Sorry, that's me out of ideas!

LOL, thanks hun

Dd2 was very headstrong and sounds like your dd. I eventually removed all potty related items and said that they were going away until she told me she was ready and I put her back in nappies. She trained when sh went o play next door and the little girl next door who is 6 weeks older than her got her to use the potty and from that day she was tt.

Maybe remove all the potty related stuff and don't talk about it at all. When you move maybe your mum might have more success with getting her to use the potty once you are living with her?