Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 37 to 54 of 135

Thread: Healing with GAPS

  1. #37

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    In snuggle land
    Posts
    4,499

    Default

    meow - that sounds wonderful. You're sounding really positive. I've read your blog and can see it was really tough there at the start. I imagine it may still continue to get tough at different stages, but you can see the difference it is making.

    I read this today on a FB feed and though it explained things really well. I don't know if the FB page person is the original author. The page is Our GAPS and Traditional Nourishing Food Journey

    Very simple explanation of the theory behind GAPS:

    The theory of this diet is that we have millions of intestinal villi, which are tiny finger-like hairs projecting into the intestine. These villi increase dramatically the surface area of the intestinal lining, making it a more effective semi-permeable barrier, which means it keeps unwanted things out of our bloodstream while absorbing the nutrients. These villi are covered with a layer of healthy intestinal flora, in some estimates about five to seven pounds of millions of varied bacteria, viruses, yeast and other microbes.

    These healthy bacteria are vital for healthy life. They make vitamins, they digest food, they make antibiotic substances to keep down pathogens and they function as our immune system. I tell my patients that this system is analogous to a lush meadow with a thick layer of soil (the villi) covered by a lush layer of grass (the healthy bacteria). When both are intact, the meadow is healthy, but if you went to the meadow and stripped off the grass (this would be the equivalent of using an antibiotic in a person, or even not eating probiotic food), a whole cascade of catastrophic events will follow. First, you will get erosion of the soil, then the soil that's left will be weak and unsupportive of healthy grasses. Weaker varieties of grass will grow or even no grass at all. Next, as the soil develops erosion cracks, poisons, runoff, etc., will start to seep into the ground water. At this point the land is dying.

    This is exactly what happens inside us. First we strip our grass, then the soil erodes - the villi get weak and blunted, and then can't support healthy micro-orgnisms. The cracks develop, and finally poisons seep into our groundwater, the blood. We now have foreign proteins in our blood, which either directly poison our nervous system (i.e. autism) or create antibody formation in reaction to these abnormal proteins, which is the whole process of auto-immune illness. Diseases which are the direct result of this process include not only intestinal diseases such as IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome), ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease, but all the auto- immune problems such as eczema, asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, and on and on. It is not a stretch to confirm what natural medicine has claimed for literally thousands of years: The majority of human illness starts in the gut and must be healed by treating the gut.

    There is one more part of the GAPS diet theory which is crucial to understanding how this illness comes about and why it is so debilitating. These intestinal villi are the sole site in the body where production of an enzyme called disaccharidase occurs. Just as lipases digest lipids (fats) and proteases digest proteins, these disaccharidases digest disaccharides. When the villi become blunted, they lose the ability to make this important enzyme, and we lose the ability to digest disaccharides. When we keep eating foods with disaccharides and can't digest them, they become perfect food for the pathogens that always reside in our gut, particularly species of candida. We then produce an overgrowth of candida, other yeasts, clostridia and other potent pathogens - and these often make unhealthy proteins instead of the B vitamins made by our healthy gut flora.

    At this point we are deeply immersed in an unhealthy vicious cycle: poor gut flora, eroding villi, cracks in our intestinal walls, poor enzyme products, eating food we can't digest, worse flora, more erosion, worse nutrition, more leaking, worse and worse immune function, more and more toxicity, finally the diagnosis of auto-immunity or a neurological problem. This is GAPS. Luckily it is totally reversible, and many of these patients can be restored to full health.



    The therapeutic strategy is fairly simple: Restore the gut flora, heal the villi, seal the cracks. We heal the villi with the Nourishing Traditions diet with a particular emphasis on soup broth, the magic gut restoring food. We replant the villi grass with probiotic foods and Biokult (a probiotic developed by Natasha McBride for the GAPS program), and until we are healed we completely avoid all foods which contain disaccharides: grains, most beans, potatoes, sweet potatoes, most sweeteners, milk (but not other cultured dairy products), and a few other foods.

  2. #38

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    I read that too and loved it. She took it from a FANTASTIC blog post I read a while ago and had forgotten about. I linked it on FB but not sure if I can here. To read it all google:
    The GAPS Diet: The Mother Of All Diets?

    I really am feeling so great. Partly because of how uplifting it is to see E healing but also because I feel so well. In the audio interview I linked NCM talks about the gut and physiology syndrome a bit and it made me realise how this is helping our life long health. I'm so glad.

    Thanks for reading the blog. You made me re-read it and getting E on the diet was hard. SO hard. I can't believe that was such a short time ago. He still has a long way to go but he's improving every day. I want to write so much more and fill in the blanks and write about the rest of us. I'm trying to focus some attention on my baby now as he's a shocking sleeper and I know he's in gut pain and I need to heal him too. I cut his food right back in the past few days and with my diet being improved these days too I think it's helping... he had a 6 hour sleep last night!!!

  3. #39

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,434

    Default

    That's it, I'm ready now! My job finishes at the end of the month, and I'm just not well enough to look for another one. Need to build myself back up with GAPS!

    So now I'm trying to find an idiot proof do/don't list. And someone to cook it all for me

  4. #40

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,434

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LionsandBears View Post

    I read this today on a FB feed and though it explained things really well. I don't know if the FB page person is the original author. The page is Our GAPS and Traditional Nourishing Food Journey
    Tash, that's totally my girlfriend!! She's doing it at the moment, and she keeps sending me info about it, trying to get me on it. She's helping SO many of her friends and family do it as well, she's just freakin' awesome

  5. #41

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keike View Post
    How're y'all going?

    I've decided that I was looking at it the wrong way - instead of doing it AFTER surgery, I should do it BEFORE, because chances are, once I've healed myself, I won't need the surgery! Plus, we won't be able to afford it for a while yet, so I might as well try this in the meantime. So I'm gonna buy the book after payday and start my planning
    YAY!!!! I was thinking this, but didn't know if you'd go for it. I definately think the surgery won't be needed babe xxx

    Just for everyone's info, the gut and psychology syndrome book is on book depository dot com for $27 and free shipping atm, (when i bought my book from nutrivene dot com it was $46 + shipping!!! nutrivene is also a great site for the fermented cod liver oil and butter oil and all things gaps-related.

  6. #42

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    Oh Keike that's so exciting!! Yay for you!

    As you make your way through the book you'll get a good idea of the do's and don'ts and if you're like me you'll keep referring to it 100 times anyway! This blog is good for a few pointers though The Five Most Common GAPS Diet Mistakes

    My biggest tip would be to start slow. Start by making some broth or something and working on new meal ideas but keep eating up your bread and pasta etc. As you start to master the new concepts without having the pressure of having nothing to eat if you don't succeed then you can stop buying the illegal foods and move onto full GAPS. Then if you feel the need, you can do intro a few months in. I don't think adults can go straight to intro. You'll flip out with the die off and go into a depression spiral and not be able to keep cooking anyway so go slow and easy on yourself. We could push our son through that because we could care for him but you need to keep yourself sane and cooking

    That's so cool that FB page is your friend! I've been following her for ages but I think she took a big break and seems to be getting back into it now

    My favourite recipes for sweets to get you through are:

    Fudgy Coconut Flour Brownies
    (from GAPS yahoo group)
    1 cup butter, melted and slightly cooled
    1 cup organic cocoa powder
    9 eggs
    1/2 to 1 cup honey (depending on how sweet you want your brownies)
    3/4 tsp vanilla
    3/4 tsp salt
    3/4 c. coconut flour

    Butter 9x13 pan. Preheat oven to 350F. Melt the butter in saucepan, remove from heat. Add the cocoa poder into the butter, set aside. In a separate bowl, whisk the eggs. Add in the honey, vanilla and salt and whisk well. Add in the coconut flour, little bits at a time, mixing well to avoid lumps. Add in the cocoa poder-butter mixture and whisk very well. f you do not whisk well enough, you'll have clumps in your brownies that are yellow when the rest is chocolate. Pour the batter into your prepared pan and bake for 20-30 minutes until a toothpick come out clean.

    Banana Caramel Sticky Buns
    (from Internal Bliss cookbook)
    2 very ripe bananas,mashed
    6 eggs, lightly beaten
    1/3 cup melted butter, ghee or coconut oil
    ? cup honey
    1 Tb vanilla extract
    2/3 cup coconut flour
    ? tsp salt

    Topping
    1 cup pecans or walnuts, chopped
    ? cup honey
    ? cup ghee or melted butter
    2 tsp ground cinnamon
    1 tsp coconut flour

    1. Preheat oven to 350F/180C
    2. Mix all ingredients for buns with wire whisk. Evenly pour into well greased 12-cup muffin pan. Do not use paper liners.
    3. Mix all ingredients for topping with a fork. Crumble topping on buns.
    4. Bake for 20-25mins, until cooked through.
    5. Cool for about 2 mins then run a knife around each bun to loosen from pan. Immediately remove and transfer to wire rack for cooling. The topping may come apart and need to be placed back on the buns but will set again as they cool.

  7. #43

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Climbing Mt foldmore
    Posts
    2,894

    Default OKAY that does it!

    Im buying the books. Even if we cant do it 100% we sure can change alot of the way we eat and how I cook.
    Pro-biotics every day and homemade yoghurt. Ours is really sour, any hints on how to make it more palatable for the LOs?
    Change to cooking with lard- that will be easy and food tastes yummier when its cooked in fat.
    I think soup is a really good habit to get into, its a common 1 here to have soup with every meal anyway- except the chinese translation for soup is water+ salt, anything extra is a bonus
    Is seaweed okay? The kids love snacking on dried seaweed.
    How do you do the no carbs for kids? (normal carbs like potatoe, rice, pasta)

    Awsome blogs Meow, thanks

  8. #44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keike View Post
    That's it, I'm ready now! My job finishes at the end of the month, and I'm just not well enough to look for another one. Need to build myself back up with GAPS!

    So now I'm trying to find an idiot proof do/don't list. And someone to cook it all for me
    Pretty sure I already offered to cook for you love... Any help, I am HERE!!! xx
    Prob the most important baby step is to make some chicken broth and drink drink drink it. Mum and Grinny have just been doing that and nothing else and have already noticed their clothes are looser and they feel different. Then as your knowledge grows, add in one thing at a time, like look up GAPS breakfasts and concentrate on changing them over. Once thats all good, go to lunch, then dinner, then snacks all the while drink drink drinking your broth. The broth is the main healing food and should be drunk a LOT. I drink it with every meal and even between meals. Once all your food is good, then you can make some fermented foods and start adding them in with your meals and then you'll be doing full GAPS!! When you're ready and starting to feel better, you can go back and do intro. It seems so much more complicated than it really is.
    My fave broth recipe that Wade loves and my boys love too is :
    cut a whole antibiotic free chicken into 8 pieces (Mt Barker is antibiotic free)
    use 1 piece for the pot, put the rest of the pieces into small zip lock bags and pop in the freezer.
    add 1 carrot, 1 celery stick with it's leaves, 1 onion and a good small handful of celtic sea salt (buy from the health food shop-should be greyish colour and look damp) then fill the slow cooker with filtered water and pop on low for a night and a day. It should be a golden colour when done. Drink til its cool, then use a colander over a bowl to tip it all out, collect the meat and veggies, either throw them out or take the meat from the chicken and eat, and refrigerate the liquid, heating in a pot on the stove when wanting to drink it.
    Last edited by lissistar; November 8th, 2011 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #45

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,434

    Default

    Mate, you have kids and chickens and homeschooling and general fabulousness to keep up - I can't ask you to make our food for us as well!! That recipe is AWESOME though, I'm gonna do that. I like your way of doing it, it seems a lot easier than the one on the GAPS site.

    Question: I saw you talking about fermented kefir as a soft drink or something...am I right? Or did I misunderstand? How do you do it, and what does it taste like?

  10. #46

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    This is great! Welcome to the thread lissistar- great to have another GAPSter It's awesome you have a friend IRL to go over the diet with you Keike. The Real Food 101 posts on this blog are great... here's the one for water kefir Real Food 101: How to Make Water Kefir

    So exciting you're going to start too doubletrouble!! I think you and Keike will both find there is HEAPS you can do towards being on GAPS and off less healthy options that really aren't that hard. The things you listed are great DT- just changing fats, adding probiotics, cultured and fermented foods, adding broth... these are all great things for your health.

    I only ever gave my eldest son natural yoghurt that was pretty sour and he always loved it. He developed an intolerance to dairy which we're still working on so he's not eating yoghurt now. And my youngest isn't really eating dairy yet. If your children are used to sweetened yoghurt then perhaps start with smoothies. I wizzed some of our yoghurt up with a banana and it was TOO sweet!! My H and I also much prefer sour cream as it's not as yoghurty tasting.

    Yes, seaweed is fine

    The carbs thing is one of the biggest shifts going onto the diet. It's not "no carb" as vegetables and fruit have carbs. So pile up your dinner with more veggies. My eldest has GAPS style anorexia as he has so much anxiety about food so he doesn't eat regular meals anyway. He just eats soup. All day. And 1/4 to 1/2 an apple per day. My youngest has never had grains in his life. He eats an egg & pork sausage pattie for breakfast, some soup for lunch and our dinner (so maybe meatballs or salmon with veggies for example). Snacks are generally boiled veggies or left over meats such as chicken or meatballs.

  11. #47

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    In snuggle land
    Posts
    4,499

    Default

    Can I just ask a quick question about the boiled veggies, as my SIL mentioned the same. Why boil? We steam and I thought that was better for you as it keeps the nutrients and flavour in.

    Also, how did you go adjusting from being a vegetaria? I was for 10 years and though it's been 10 years since I converted back, I still can't eat pork or ham. The smell, taste, thought just makes me gag.

    My brother & SIL arent on GAPS but something similar which inclued soaking their grains etc. btw -she's off to the Weston Price conference this weekend. I've asked to to ask about the link between gut health & dental health. Also, how long should one try intro GAPS before TTC.

  12. #48

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    Sorry for the delay. I typed a long response to you on my phone, then I got an incoming call and lost it!! I haven't had the heart to retype it till now

    The boiled veggies are because the gut health is compromised in GAPSters and they are unable to easily digest food. Boiled veggies are easier to digest so GAPSters will actually get more out of them than fibrous, hard to digest steamed veggies. I saw this happen with my baby as he woudl pass steamed veggies undigested but has been okay on boiled veggies. I also give him roasted veggies too. I generally boil the veggies in broth to up the nutrition in the veggies, but it also means I keep the liquid the veggies were cooked in so we eat all of the nutrients one way or another.

    Adjusting from being vegetarian was pretty huge. While researching the diet online, this was the big thing holding me back. During a phone consultation with Dr Louise Porter she was telling me we had to get our family onto GAPS and I was told her it was going to be hard as we are vegetarian and she said "Yes, but you'd throw yourself under a bus wouldn't you? If you could heal your son, you would throw yourself under a bus". She was right and those words rung in my ears many times as we transitioned onto the diet. After talking to her I finally bought and read the book and that was it, I was convinced we had to do it. So eating meat just had to happen. I had been vegetarian for 15 years, most of my adult life and I don't really know how to cook it! The first thing I made was boiled meat and I gagged it down. We spent maybe about 2 months adjusting to the new cooking and preparing to eat this food before the actual day that we started full GAPS and got our son on the diet. If you don't like pork, don't eat it. I have found I prefer it to beef so that's why we have it. We also buy all our meat organic and free range from the local market, but if you can't do that then pork is best avoided as I believe pigs are treated pretty badly in factory farming.

    Natasha Campbell-McBride recommends being on GAPS for 6 months before falling pregnant to give you and your partner a good chance to build up healthy gut flora. I personally think a little bit less time pre-TTC wouldn't hurt if you continued to follow through with the diet while pregnant and while baby is young. Your gut flora only matters at birth and beyond anyway. I remember reading in The Natural Way to Better Babies that you shouldn't do any detox within 6 (?) months before conception and the intro diet can be pretty detoxing. If you're not debilitated by your GAPS condition then I would just go to full GAPS and look at perhaps doing intro later. Some people never do intro and still see plenty of great healing. The intro is really good to kick start recovery for those with major digestive issues or debilitating conditions (such as severe depression and autism).

  13. #49

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    A Pirate Ship
    Posts
    3,627

    Default

    Aw man, I've just had a quick read of the GAPS info from a link on the 1st page of this thread and I'm worried that when ds was born I was on antibiotics as I had a major tooth infection in 2 teeth (ended up needing a root canel on both of them) and I got them treated 2 days before he was born as I was 10 DPD and in total agony. The info on that link says that a babies gut flora is formed from what is in the mothers birth canal and seeing the antibiotics zapped everything in my body what does mean for DS? What would have been left for him to have as gut flora? There probably wasn't any good or bad flora there? Help! I'm so confused and turn into such a worry wort over this sort of thing. Anyone who has the book or knows more on this please fill me in From the other things I read on that link I am very thankful that we are still breastfeeding and ds was not vaccinated.

  14. #50

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    My latest blog...

    3 & 1/2 months

    I've been meaning to write a 3 month update for the past two weeks but I just couldn't seem to find the inspiration. It's been a funny month.

    The first few weeks E stopped making amazing developments Every Single Day. Which was totally fine, that's a bit much to maintain right? And then he had some regressions. More head banging, emotional explosions, anxiety. Totally fine too, we had been pre-warned to expect regressions. Two steps forward, one step back. But after a while I think it got me down and for the first time I started to doubt we're doing the right thing and questioned if it's worth it.

    We had a followup appointment with a doctor at the Autism Center and E went into a panic when he approached him. He fled to me and hit me... he hasn't hit me in a couple of months! The doctor clearly thought very little of GAPS and I guess we didn't really show it off at all either.

    But then E had a cold and we realised the regressions were largely due to him tired and unwell. And I had pushed a little too hard trying to introduce cream I think and had caused a bit too much die-off. The past two weeks he has been improving again and he continues to do things that we've never known this little boy to do. He amazes us every day. I'll try not to get so glum next regression!

    So, he's still eating soup and it still has to be in the same bowl and we still have to feed it to him. At the moment his daily diet is roughly:
    3 or 4 (2 on a bad day) cups of soup each with a soft boiled egg, 1Tb butter, 1Tb sauerkraut, 1tsp SK juice, 1Tb avocado and 1Tb olive oil.
    Each day he also has 5mls of pro-omega fish oil, 2.5mls of FCLO, 2.5mls of butter oil, 1/4 to 1/2 an apple (some for snack on preschool days and some as a treat after the oils), a pinch of bio-kult and 2000 or 3000IU of vit D.

    And nuts! Over about a month or so E has been warming up to nuts. he would feed them to M & I, then he would lick them first, then he started actually eating them! We make crispy nuts and he devours any type of nut with little hesitation even if it's new. But they don't really agree with him so we've only let him have about 5 a day once or twice a week. Such a shame, because it's awesome to see him get over some of his food anxieties and introduce something new.

    I was adding sour cream and was up to 1 tsp per day but he seemed to be really struggling, then got sick with a cold so I cut it out again. The past week he has had about 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per day and seems fine. I went up to 1 tsp one day and he woke up with a nightmare so it's back to 1/2 tsp.

    The past couple of days I have added 1/2 tsp of coconut oil and he's been having more meltdowns for a couple of hours after having it. As exciting as it is to see die-off I think we'll go down to 1/4 tsp for a while.

    I discussed follow-up blood test for vit D levels with the doctor this week. She reassured me that the 5000IU we had him on would be very unlikely to be a toxic amount and he would really need LOADS for a while. So we're thinking we'll assume he's still going to be quite deficient and delay the second blood test while putting him back on 5000IU for another month. Also, while at the doctor he was weighed and he's 18.5kgs! He was 17kg 3 & 1/2 months ago (and went down to 15kgs) so he's packing it on. He looks so healthy and vital, and rosy cheeked.

    This week we've started Floortime in the Home. We're paying for some floortime students based through our OT office to come and play for 2 hours about 4 days a week. E struggled this morning (had just given him coconut oil- doh!) but hopefully he'll relax and play more and develop some meaningful relationships. He is showing so much readiness to learn, I'm glad we're able to seize the opportunity.

    And here's the main problem I have had trying to formulate this post... what is actually better? It's so hard to describe.

    His anxiety is less- he can enter a new environment and transition without totally flipping out. His meltdowns are less full on. He still punches his chin and bangs his head but he rarely has bruises so he's clearly doing it more gently. He just appears calmer, happier and more involved.

    He talks most of the day. They are often scripts but they relate to what is happening. This week he started ANSWERING some questions! For example,if he says "P is for Pig" I can say "What sound does a pig make?" and he replies "Oink oink". This NEVER could have happened before. I would have HAD to repeat "P is for Pig" or he would have started banging his head. Yesterday he was playing with M and he pointed to a car he wanted a said "Yellow car". He would have just grunted before.

    His motor planning is improving tremendously. He has so much more confidence to explore new things... he's been riding on the ride on toys at school and in the wagon (not the trikes yet). He does excellent, unique dance moves and has started to "skip" (similar to a horse trot) and spin himself till dizzy. We're constantly amazed to watch his explorations.

    He usually shares a bath at the end of the day with F, but a few days okay F was really tired, had a bath early and I was putting him to bed. E was in his bath and asked "Where's F? F and Mummy"!!!! He also LOVES to play with F, and with us. He INITIATES play frequently, with smiles, eye contact and giggles His teachers at preschool gush everyday with new things he has done. He is talking more and tolerating other children in his space and in parallel play. He plays alongside Max with the trainset and once when Max was upset, E recognised he wanted his trains and handed them to him.

    Having a blast!
    Cherished I only just saw your post sorry! Will come back later... have you been reading more?

  15. #51

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    Cherished, in a nutshell- I think everyone needs to read the GAPS book so I'd suggest getting yourself a copy and having a read. You needed the ABs so don't sweat it. They have their place and when used when needed what can you do? Just look to the future and how you can recover yours and your son's gut flora.

    Your son may be fine (though I'm feeling that pretty much ALL of us are living at below optimum health as a result of generations of ABs, refined food and other factors) but will his children be? It's up to you whether you wait and see if he needs health assistance later (though it can be harder to do diet interventions with older children), or if the health of his children are your concern, or his. Personally, I'd go with a GAPS, or close to GAPS healing protocol. But it's probably obvious I'd feel that way! It's seriously not the scary diet it looks like once you're just a few months in. WAPF is a great way to go without being hardcore too- you can still have grains with a WAPF diet! And get kick arse probiotics (bio-kult is the brand recommended on GAPS but there are other top notch brands too).

    Lions&Bears- I wanna go to the WAPF conference. I've decided I'm going next year!!

  16. #52

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    A Pirate Ship
    Posts
    3,627

    Default

    Meow, thanks hon, yes ive been reading. I have the book on reserve at the library but Im impatient and think I will just buy it. I am thinking that ds is really healthy so I will follow the guidelines for his diet as I think I will do it myself. Iwill see what I think once I read the book. What is WAPF diet? Looks like I have more research to do!

  17. #53

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Climbing Mt foldmore
    Posts
    2,894

    Default

    Take it easy C1 or you'll end up making your head spin! I know mine did
    We are now taking it slow. replacing things, adding afew bits and just seeing how everybody reacts. Getting the kid use to drinking soup at every dinner is my 1st major, the homemade youghurt would be easier if dh would stop buying dairyfood!

  18. #54

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    A Pirate Ship
    Posts
    3,627

    Default

    I've been vego for 6 years and dh for about 20 so I would need to take it slow for sure. Ds doesn't have any problems no dh mainly me with eczema. Is it something you need to do 100% or can you take the principels and add what you want? I'm thinking you need to be pretty strict if you are trying to heal something specific? Agh I need to just read the book!

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •