Parenting after Miscarriage or Loss ~ December 09

Thanks Janie and girls - Flynn I think has hit the "six week change" and he is definately more awake and alert.

Can I get some BF advice. Although is is basically fully bottle fed - he just has not been a vigorous sucker on the breast, certainly not enough to stimulate my supply from day one. I can only express 20ml a day, I know that is a joke! I try to put him to the breast every feed, but he just nibbles away, loves being there, but is not feeding. The midwife assured me he would get better and stronger sucking action as time goes by, but it's definately not happening. And obviously the bottle has 'set in' and he is totally used to it. I'm not going to get my knickers in a knot of BF doesn't happen, but can any of you tell me if all is lost? How to you teach a bottle fed babe how to BF and how to suck more strongly - if he could do this I'm sure my supply would lift and eventually I could start dropping bottle feeds, which was my plan and what I had hoped for. Really need some advice on this one!

Speak of the devil, he's awake and hungry, here we go again!!!!

Janie - I could have written your post. It can all just get so overwhelming - are you getting enough rest? Major hugs to you, things settle down then get hectic again, I hope you get a better period soon.

Hi to everyone else!

Lee xo

Oh Lee, I could have written YOUR post when DS was a newborn!!! No, all is definitely not lost......we had extremely similar issues, and went on to BF for over 2 years. But it will take some changes. I am about to go out, so can't get into a massive post (which it will need to be), but have you thought about calling the ABA? They will be able to give you some suggestions to help encourage Flynn to actually work for some milk from the breast. Once he works out how to get your let down happening things will be sorted out, or at least better! The number is 1800 MUM2MUM. All the counsellors are mums who have BTDT, so will understanding :)

Michelle, I SO hope your day is now vomit free!!!!!!!!!!!! :hug:

Lee - there are a few options. A side line is one. Changing the bottle teat to a slow flow one in another. You could also try feeding him a small amount of FF first and then changing to the breast while he is still hungry and wanting to suck to stimulate the BF part with a hungry, but not starving, baby. The ABA should be able to give you some help with that. As for supply - it depends on how far you want to take it. Janie and I both spent quite some time on motilium with our DS's to boost supply while supplementary FF. There are other, more natural supply stimulation options so just let us know how far and to what level you would like to take things. Plenty of breastfeeding challenged women here in this corner ;) We have, between us, tried almost everything there is!!!

ETA - Janie (my twin :rofl:) we posted at the same time. And so far, there has been one more vomit. I live in hope or I will be joining him when DH goes out!!

Lee, I wish I could give you some advice... I can't as we were in an even worse situation than you. Don't give up and don't think of it as "only 20mL". I never, ever cracked the 5mL mark pumping from both breasts, so I think your 20mL is an absolutely amazing achievement!

To answer the work questions... I'm a high school maths teacher, and Sam's birth timed just beautifully for me to have an entire school year off with him (and also meant I got 7 weeks of school holiday pay last summer before my 14 weeks of paid maternity leave started!), but it's time to go back now. I'm nervous, terrified, excited and can't wait all at the same time. I feel a bit better knowing that for four days a week Sam will be at home with DH and so far we're only doing one day of daycare, but I still feel horrible for giving him that one day - even though Sam will probably LOVE being able to play with other kids. DH will do one day per week in the office with the cash register importer he works for and maybe some other work for them from home and hopefully pick up some freelance/casual work for the corporate events company he used to work for. Even with the daycare fees, we're going to be in a much better financial position with me back at work. It's kind of necessary as I earn more than DH and can't really work out of hours or from home, but DH can. Last year the school was in limbo and this year I'll go back to a new principal - will be good to have some direction in the school again as things were a bit disorganised for a while as the previous principal's wife has (had?) quite nasty breast cancer problems.

On the little people front - Sam is DEFINITELY walking now. he still tends to crawl a lot as it's faster but he toddles around both with and without his push-along walker now. Had a ball at church this morning showing off to his adoring fans and kept trying to go outside... so we've promptly bought him his first pair of shoes this afternoon. Do you have any idea just how hard it is to find pre-walker shoes in a size 6?! Yep, big feet, tall baby... Didn't really feel comfortable getting him harder, heavier shoes, but needed something to protect his feet a little.

Michelle, how's Lily going with the walking thing? Sam showed pretty much no interest until he spent some time with a little boy 4 months older than him, and he was desperately trying from then on!

Hope everyone is coping ok with the heat - especially the pregnant ladies! It's not as hot here in Sydney as in some other areas, but out here in the west it's just AWFUL. The humidity is just revolting!

BW

BW - Lily has just started standing on her own before deciding to sit down. She loves her push-along walker and pram although her sense of direction leaves a little bit to be desired :lol: I think she will be up and off very soon. The independent standing is only a new thing but combined with her walking holding on to one finger she is close.

As for the heat - I am expecting a big electricity bill ;) Air con and fans here - and we aren't as hot as further west!!! Or south for that matter.

Back to finish lunch while the peace lasts ..........

Hearing you girls on the heat, it's terrible here today. Last night none of us slept well in our bedroom, it was still 29 at about 2am. Blah!

Dreading the electricity bill!!!

Thanks for the replies girls. How far I want to go with trying to get BF going is definately the million dollar question! I forgot to mention how time poor I am, with 3 other kidlets in the mix - so I just don't have time to sit attached to a pump for hours on end. I have had more success with a borrowed little hand held pump than the big fancy electric pump I used in the hospital. But Flynn is my main problem - there IS milk there for the little fella, if only he could work out how to get it out! I have called ABA a few weeks back and tbh I did not find them helpful, they had no real solution for me - it might have just been the girl I spoke with.

I had all these same issues with Remy last year, and she NEVER sucked well from day one, after a month I gave up and FF her 100%. I was hoping things would go differently with Flynn - he was a month early, and pretty badly jaundiced, but was sucking better in hospital - although obviously not enough to really establish a good supply, as he kept loosing weight, so in the end (and mainly because of the jaundice and needing fluids to get rid of it) I gave in a started FF again, and it's just stuck, largely due to him not 'catching up with me' or 'meeting me halfway' iykwim. But I definately have more milk than I did with Remy. One midwife suggested to me that my BF problems "could" be due to the anti-lactaion drug I took after I lost Luc - in March 2007 - she seemed to think it were possible my body is affected by that? I fully BF my older two for 12 months without one problem - so I'm still a bit miffed that I've had these troubles - perhaps it is mainly due to the fact they were a bit early and just not as good with their sucking reflex - I'm definaly open to your opinions girls. Sorry this is so long, but you need all the info to get a handle on the situation!

Michelle - I use a slow teat, sometimes Flynn can take 30 mins or more to down a bottle (150mls) or other times it's gone in 5 mins - depending on his mood/hunger levels! I tried your advice today and gave him the bottle first, let him drink half, then popped him on the boob, for a minute I thought he was sucking harder, but alas, the boy blissed out again and opted for a nibble! I will keep trying though.

I just wish Flynn would get his suck happening - I do sort of dread having to set up supply lines - I just can't see it working with a demanding toddler etc. Arrrggghhhhh............ My Ob saw my frustration, but his best advice is "well, it either works or it doesn't (BF) so don't stress if it doesn't, can't see the point of wires and tubes etc!!!" lol.... that's a bloke for you - but in some ways he does have a point!

OK - waffle over - I think you girls should all move to Tasmania - temp in Hobart is about 25 - perfect! I used to live in Darwin and Adelaide and I do not miss that kind of heat! All my mob are away camping at Lake Pedder this weekend - so Flynn and I have had a lovely bit of quiet time at home - just what I needed!

Hugs to all, Lee xo

Lee - if it is just you and Flynn, try to spend the entire time in bed / on the lounge with your top off (thankfully it is still warm enough for that in Tassie ;)) and just let him feed as often as he wants. It can often help with supply and with attachment issues, not to mention a great excuse to be a sloth :D Stop the formula throughout the day and just look at giving it only as the last feed. He will feed - lots!!! But it may be a way of working on his BF and increasing your supply.

See how it goes but ultimately you need to do WHATEVER is best for you and your family. While you continue to want to BF we will give you options and support to do so. If you change your mind and decide to FF, we will stop with the BF stuff and move to supporting your FF journey :hug:

Okay, just quickly Lee......

It's definitely possible to get things happening without resorting to pumps and supply lines etc, especially as you think the milk is there (or can potentially be there). You mentioned before that Flynn has 'woken up' somewhat lately, this is really good!!!! It means that while he might get a bit frustrated if he realises he has to work for his food, he will be able to figure it out, and hopefully within days/weeks he'll have the hang of it. I totally get that you are time poor, I had a feeling you were going to say that ;).

BBL, crying boy

Lee - the girls have had some great advice for you re BFing. It must be so frustrating for you when you fed your oldest 2 for so long with no troubles at all. I had no trouble feeding DD until I fell pg again and am just expecting it to be that easy this time, so I will be sharing your pain if it turns out not to happen quite so easily this time! Enjoy the time with your man over the weekend - sounds like it could be a good opportunity to get your supply up without all the other kiddies around wanting attention too!

BW - OMG on Sam being a size 6 shoe already!!! I had the opposite problem with DD - she is still only a size 3 shoe and is nearly 2 so can you imagine the trouble I had finding shoes that would fit when she started walking at 13 months!? Her feet were miniscule (and still are!) and I really struggled finding something to put on her teeny little feet!

Freya - I know the feeling! Some days you just crave time to yourself and then when you get it you don't know what to do with yourself! I am feeling the same way today.

Janie - good to see you back. I am also an impatient pg woman so I hear you! I also feel like I am wishing this pregnancy away but at the same time I can't help it! I hope work isn't too bad today.

Jayne - good on you for staying so calm and managing to take 4 kids to the drs! I hope the wound is healing up ok.

Hi to everyone else, hope you are all managing to avoid the heat. The forecast here is 43!! What a time to be 38 weeks pg!

It looks like I will still be hanging out waiting for this baby to arrive tomorrow when DD's babysitters return from hols so I don't need to worry about that anymore, but I am still so desperate for this bub to come out now! The thought of him coming late terrifies me. Plus we have the family descending upon us right around his due date and I really don't want to be still waiting around with my ILs staying. Sooo p***ed off that they are coming over here then, they didn't even consult us, just told us they would be arriving on the EDD. WTF?? I am still hoping it won't become an issue because bubs will have arrived by then, otherwise I am going to be one seriously cranky pregnant woman!

I have a question for those medicos among us. DD got this weird rash the other day, it was red with welts and appeared on her arms and legs and looked terrible. Then it disappeared and appeared somewhere else and then went away again. Daycare just phoned to say it has come back so I took her to the pharmacist who said it is a contact rash and gave us an antihistamine to take for a week or so and said to think about anything new she has come into contact with. I can't think of anything! We know she has no food allergies, I haven't used a new washing powder, she hasn't eaten anything unusual, she did she get her first bee sting a week ago but seemed fine after that. Any idea of what it could be? It looks terrible but doesn't bother her at all, it's not even itchy and goes away in about 10 mins anyway. Very strange.

No time for personals atm but just wanted to come in and give you all a :grouphug:
I'm feeling really really fragile today and upset for all the lovely people on BB who have/are suffering the heartache that we all know too well that a loss brings.

I've just been to see my GP and he is p***ed off to say the least with my Ob. He can't believe I haven't been to see her since my m/c let alone not even have an appt booked. He rang her rooms and spoke to the receptionist who told him they would call me very soon. I just don't feel like pestering them kwim? He told me to give them until Wednesday morning to call and if nothing then to call them again and if no response then to call him again.He thinks my next step would be to have clexane injections if and when then time comes for next bub. He also told me that its "recommended" to wait 3 months before ttc again but pigs a*se to that with my history with how long it may take. I didn't tell him that DH and I have made no move whatsoever to stop a pregnancy from happening :shhh: I'm kicking myself though cos after all that stupid me forgot to ask him for a referal to see the famous Dr S that everyone talks about :redface: I have an appt with him next month. DH has no idea yet though :o but I'm sure he won't care too much that I'm trying to move forward.

Sorry for the selfish post.

Mako, I'm so glad you have an appointment with Dr S. It was what I was going to suggest for you as well (but I was fairly sure Willow would have been saying the same thing!). I understand the not wanting to bother people part of things, I'm a lot like that myself.

I feel all funny today - had the IVF clinic chasing us to pay our embryo storage bill. I doubt we have the money so I told them we didn't get it (untrue) because we moved (true) and asked them to re-send the bill to us. Makes me feel like waiting until my arthritis is more under control and Sam is older probably isn't the best idea... but a FET is even more financially out of reach than the storage fees!

BW

OMG I can't believe my DH. He has had a huge dummy spit over the fact I'd made an appt with a specialist in Sydney. He doesn't think we need to see anyone else. He just wants us to see my Ob here and see what she says(when I get in). I can see his point of view but I wish he could see mine. I told him a bit about what happened at my GP appt today and he actually opened up a little tiny bit about how he's feeling :clap: I get that he doesn't want to go through all the tests and stress about ttc but I'm thinking we don't have a great deal of choice :wall:
Ok rant over. Sorry to dump this on you girls :(

BW I hope you guys find a way to get things sorted out. Money issues suck big time.
Oh and wow Sam has big feet lol.I was like Bun when Sage was learning to walk. He's now in a size 5 shoe lol.

MAKO _ You need to make yourself a cuppa, have a nice cool shower & rest up with a magazine in bed. I can tell your little mind (I don't mean it's little though), is going a zillion miles per hour right now & I think you just need to chill & catch your breath. It's fantastic that DH has opened up a little, I wonder if you could organise a 'date' night with him & have Sage babysat so you can sit down & talk about both yours & his feelings & about this new specialist (Sorry, I have no clue who Dr S is), & the appointment with your GP today. At least after then, you are BOTH on the same page & working towards the same thing - a H&H pregnancy.

BW _ Well aren't you a very clever thing being a maths teacher! That's fantastic that you're going back to work, but OMG with the full time! Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing, just my goodness, you are going to have to be a very organised woman! I actually think you're going to do fantastically balancing the 2 jobs - Mummy & Maths Teacher & it's going to revive you, I know work did that for me, but then again, I don't have the responsibility that you do in my work!

BUN _ I have no clue about the rash? Could it be a heat rash by any chance? Does she have a fever? I wonder if an antihistamine would help? Michelle is the best person to help you out with that one. I just hope she doesn't get anything infectious with Bubs being so close to the finish line!

MICHELLE _ I needed you tonight! AGAIN! Claudia's Post Op dressing thingy-magiggy peeled off. I think it was the Dr's fault who applied it because the nurse who put it on for us on Saturday did it beautifully, no creases or anything, but the Dr made a mess of it & only after a few hours it was falling off. So I trundled down to the pharmacy & got some new ones @ $3EACH! I nearly died. I got 2 incase I stuffed the first one, you should have heard me cursing your name! I wish you were nearby that you could have done it for me. LOL. But all good now. How is Lily now? She all better? I haven't heard of any Oscar-sleeping-badly-antics just lately, does that mean there aren't any? :D

FREYA _ I'm really glad Claudia's injury wasn't worse either, I don't know how you survive with the injuries your kids get into! Hey, how was the movies with Jett? Did he love having special Mummy time? Good on you for thinking to take him. Sounds like it was a great day.

AFM _ We are off to Bunbury tomorrow for my great uncle's funeral. I'd rather not take the children, but I really have no other options, so they are coming along. I have tried to explain a funeral as a 'party to send Uncle Ron to heaven' but then she asked would he be there:doh: So I said 'yes, he will be there, but in a very special postage box so the angels can post him up to heaven'. I have no idea where I pulled that one from, but it seems to have worked. Tomorrow is going to be interesting, to say the least..... Wish me luck!

Love Jayne xx

Jayne - :rofl: I LOVE the postage box!!!! And I was at work so you could have come and seen me ;) Long trip though LOL

As for Oscar - his sleep is intermittently ok. Lily, however, is up ATM and refusing to sleep :wall: Come on kids!!! Mummy needs to snooze!!!!

Mako - the DH's in our lives deal with things differently. It may be important to explain to him why you think (and the rest of us ;)) seeing Dr S may be a good option. Tell him it is a second opinion, a review of options, a specialist in the early miscarriage field who may have a relatively low intervention alternative available to you. Something to make TTC *less* of a stress and *less* of a problem. Sometimes you need to sell things in ways they understand with a positive benefit slant ;)

Off to try to settle the cruising, giggling, chatting little girl who WON'T GO TO SLEEP!!!!!! Again :rolleyes:

Mako - Had a feeling this was going to happen ;) My DH was the same, but I just steamed along anyway because I knew in my gut it was the right thing to do. It wasn't until Dr S did my second lap and we realised how bad things were that he came around and admitted I was right. I'm not saying ignore his feelings, I'm just saying don't ignore your own.

Little story...I have a close friend who was in a very similar situation to you about 2 years ago. She has an auto immune disorder. She had one DD with IVF but had been trying for about 18 months for #2. Failure, after failure after failure. It was awful. Her ob and FS couldn't work out why it wasn't happening. She'd almost make it through the tww and then a day or two before her blood test she'd start bleeding. In the end her FS pretty much told her she was out of answers and basically gave up on her. She told her 'sometimes no matter how much we try this just isn't meant to be' :o Before her last cycle with this Dr, a friend (who was also a patient of Dr S') and I tried to gently persuade her to go and see Dr S. Her husband totally flipped out. He wanted to continue with their current specialist, he wanted the answers to be easy, you know? Let's just keep doing what we're doing and it will work eventually. So they did another cycle. Another BFN. And this one nearly killed her, it was their last frozen embryo so they were up for another stim cycle.

So off they went to Dr S. He did a whole heap of tests including his biopsy for 'natural killer cells' and low and behold her results were off the charts. They did one cycle with Dr S following his protocol and she fell prg. She now has a beautiful little boy :)

She has told us over and over that she wished she'd gone to him sooner.

So, I guess what I'm saying is in my opinion babe, when something's not working anymore you try something new :hug:

Maybe try a fishing analogy with him...tell him it's time for a new rod!! :lol: Or he needs to try some soft plastics instead of live bait! :rofl:

I'm with your GP, I am p*ssed with your ob even if you aren't! LOL. I just don't feel like she's giving you the time and care you need :hug:

BBL...I am quickly understanding why people hate having renos done!!

double post

The movies was great Jayne, Chipmunks was an entertaining watch and Jett liked it so much he was dancing in the isles! He has also made a list of other movies he wants to see this year based of the promo posters and previews :lol: It was so nice being just us, he is much more well behaved without his brothers around (not to mention how bloody easy it was to go into Westfields and do groceries etc afterwards without all the baby crap that goes with a 9mth and 2yo ;) ) These little outings give me glimpses of why only children or big age gaps appeal to people hehe

I think he has wrangled Ryan into taking him to Princess and the Frog next week. A nice princess movie for my two princess to bond over :rofl: