When 1,2,3 no longer works on your 4yo, what then?

Oh, I feel for you.
With dd if she hasn't eaten her dinner (or at least half) within a certain time frame (say, half an hour) we just take it away. No muss, no fuss, the rest of the night time routine continues.
If the hair thing was a massive struggle I have to say I'd get it cut to a more manageable length.
The pool thing's a hard one unless you could get in to lead her out, but I would be warning dd in the car on the way to the pool the next time and again before you even walk through that gate, that if it happens again you will not be coming back
GL

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Agree - once DD1 realised nothing was happening at 3 then she didn't care, lol!!! I have had to remember to name the consequence before the countdown. Amazingly it doesn't have to be anything major - removal of toy, quiet time in her room, no TV.
I also think being confident in yourself when delivering it is also important, has been for me, I must admit I have taken a few deep breaths.........

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You know, i have NEVER said, WHAT will happen at 3, just that i'm going to count to three.
Always thought to myself (for last two years) "i will be stuffed when she calls my bluff and LETS me get to three - cos i have nada at three".

So maybe i will try 1.2.3 again , but with a specified consequence (for three being reached).

I like the ref to START BEHAVIOURS and would love to hear more on that.
Last night she sat (and got down) x repeat alot - for two hours, until she ate her chicken.
(Once she's eaten her dinner, she gets to pick something out of the surprise box. Rarely does she get anything, despite fun things being in the box).

i have never tried taking away toys before, will thinik about that.

I don't believe in the Naughty Step (just stating my preferences)

i get bilby to pick up toys, put away clothes by saying "oh look, the naughty gnomes left your pj's on the floor, we need to have a tidy up". She's just started saying "it was me that left them on the floor". which i'm glad about. she said it in her own time. I like having a subtle way to reminding her what to do. And i do remind her of the safety aspect. she has a little bedroom, so wherever toys are on the floor, that's where anyone would have to walk (and therefore slip on the toys).

thanks for the name of that program DIvvy, must look that up.

Yes, when i can find it in the budget, she will be having a haircut, just long enough for a pony. She loves having long hair, i'm wondering if she will suddenly freak out when hair actually gets cut. Right now, i'm not sure she understands, what she SEEMS to be agreeing to.

She had another "i don't wanna leave" turn (playdate at friend's house) last night. Wouldn't change from her friend's costume back into her own clothes, wouldn't leave house on her own steam. So i had to undress her (while she's running away/struggling), and eventually, the only way i could get her to get dressed, was to promise her an iceblock, once we were home. i felt awful having to bribe, but it worked. (and the playdate friend - we were holding up her bedtime so i felt embarrassed).

thanks so much for all the replies, i really appreciate reading all these ideas/responses - you are all so kind to share your stories with me.

Just on the "I don't wanna leave" thing, do you warn her when it is getting close to time to go? I found my DD a right pain when it came to home-time for a while until I started warning her about 10-15 minutes beforehand. Kind of like "It will be time to get out of the pool and go home in 15 minutes. What do you want to play on before we go?" or "It will be Friend's bedtime soon so in about 10 minutes we're going to help pack up the toys and say goodbye."

The most important thing though, is to carry through. Give her the allotted time, then act on what you've said without allowing any wriggle room for 5 minutes more etc. I found it gives her time to recognise that it's nearly home time and to have that one last go on the slide or turn of the best toy.

That said, there may well be times that she'll balk and continue to play up - that's when 1-2-3 *bam* consequence comes in handy. Especially if they know there is a consequence before you start counting and know they won't like it (usually have to have used it and followed through a couple of times before this stage). I never really specified what the consequence will be, my DD discovered it when she got to 3 and was then informed that she was missing out on something she really wanted or enjoys doing because of her behaviour. I've used things like loss of TV for the rest of the day, staying at home with Dad instead of coming shopping with Mum, loss of favoured possession for specific length of time etc - anything that is a suitable deterrent.

Good Luck :)

I have a 4yo girl and 3yo boy who I have had heaps of problems with listening. We are doing a coin system which seems to be working quite well. They each have a jar with their name on it and when they do what I have asked on the first occasion or if they help clean up are kind etc etc they get 10c to put in the jar. At the end of 2 days they then get to spend their money at the $2 shop. If they will not do something I have asked I will give them to the count of three to decide whether they will do what I've asked or loose 10c. THis seems to have worked where loosing toys has not had any effect on them.
The other thing we are doing is trying to teach them to think about what they have done (when they have done something wrong) and what they can do to fix the situation, rather than just have time out they have to go to the thinking place and think of what they have done then they have to tell me what it is they have done and what they can do to rectify the situation. Eg: If they have thrown a toy they have say what they've done, why it's dangerous and what they need to do to fix it ie: pick up the toy and put it away. We also use some of the things mentioned above from the 123 magic program such as racing the clock for start behaviours and natural consequences - If they get up from the table without finishing dinner or throw food it means that dinner is over, or lunch is over and they don't get anything until the next meal, or if DD doesn't want to take a jumper that's fine it will just mean that if she gets cold she will learn to take it next time etc etc.
Dicipline is sooooo difficult - finding what work for your child. However I'm starting to realise that you need to put your childs character over their comfort sometimes. I would rather a short period of discomfort for them and a child with a good character who others enjoy to be around.
The techniques I have used are from the 'Growing great Boys book'. THere is also a 'Growing Great Girls' book too.

As all others have said, the most important thing is to name a consequence and follow through EVERY time.