Pitbulls

I'm sorry you have to make this decision :(

We have 2 small dogs, one is very placid, the other very boisterous. My 16 month old DD plays happily with both under supervision, I trust them but generally do not leave her alone with them. I've also noticed she started off very gentle with them but as her confidence is growing, she's getting more rough with them. If either ever snapped, they'd be gone in a flash but until them, I trust them.

However, my dh owned 2 staghounds that he used purely for hunting. Around the farm they were beautiful placid dogs but if you ever saw one of them attack while hunting, my lord. There is a switch and you would not know they were the same dogs fetching a ball for us 5 minutes earlier. That's their instinct, that's their nature and that's their bloodline. I could never ever have those dogs around my children so they had to go, I guess I see staffy's and pitbulls in the same light unfortunately, something could just click and if it did, could you ever forgive yourself?

Fwiw, I would not take my child to a house where there was a pitbull, I would not trust the dog and I would not trust my child to be gentle enough to be safe :(

Ginger- We are talking about others breeds saying that ANY dog can attack, so "imagine" what a pit bull could do. Well I know that was kind of my point. A Bull Terrier is very comparable though.

ok, i agree with that :)

*sneaks in*

youtube "dr ian dunbar on dog attacks"

its interesting

*sneaks out*

have you actually looked into the laws about keeping a pitbull? I'm just asking as I've tried getting some info on google....there's lots of info etc & most comes up with a pit bull terrier dog (is this exactly what breed it is?) as being restricted or prohibited.

I (again regardless of breed) wouldn't be keeping or hiding a dog that isn't allowed, there is a reason for something to be restricted or prohibited. Is your safety, it's your childs safety and it's the safety of the community.

Again only you can make the decision, but I would be getting all the info needed and make an informed decision.

I love my dogs and I'm a big animal person, I also love my horses ( I have 4) and I would NEVER EVER EVER leave my or any child alone with any animal. I think people are forgetting the fact that ALL animals are dangerous. ALL dogs can maul. I understand that pitbulls are bread to fight but I pretty much put all dogs in the same basket, they can be awesome and placid but they can all be very very dangerous.
I really don't think it's hard to keep an eye 100% on kids and animals. My dogs live outside and there is a glass locked between them at all timed. As there is a locked gate between my horses at all times. If they are near my animals I am there like white on rice. Not hard.

Haven't read any of the other posts because I'm lazy lol, but I know quite a few people who are owners of Pitbulls and they all say the same thing - its about how you raise the dog, not the breed.

If you treat the dog badly, if you teach it to attack, if you starve it so you can use it for hunting etc, then all of those things are going to have a negative effect on the dog. If you treat the dog with love, kindness, train it appropriately not to bite etc, then you will end up with a pooch no different in temperament to any other breed.

Puppies are like people, if you do your best to raise them right, then you shouldn't have a problem, and there is no particular race/breed that is any more violent than another. Any breed can become viscous at any time - I've seen a Jack Russell that will take your hand off given half the chance - its just some are physically capable of doing a lot more damage than others, and they make the headlines, and they garner the reputations. Yes some breeds were bred for certain purposes, however most of those purposes are no longer relevant in the modern age with the exception of working dogs, and dogs that people use for hunting - in which case those dogs are trained to do so.

IMHO a badly behaved animal is the result of a lazy or irresponsible owner. Even the best behaved dog can be given cause to attack, but I'm of the belief that in most cases its the fault of the so called 'victim.' There are very few animals in nature who attack for the sake of attacking, its usually in self defence, out of fear, or because they feel provoked, and I believe that isn't something that can be domesticated away. If you pull a dog's tail, or act in a threatening manner towards it, yes its going to defend itself, its a natural response. There are also people who react negatively when they see a bad rep breed, which doesn't help to discourage poor behaviour. Of course, you will always get some dogs that it makes no difference to, but you get that with people as well - I'm sure Hitler's parents didn't raise him to rain genocide down on Jews but hey, look what happened.

By the sounds of it you're doing all the right things with your pooch, and you shouldn't have a problem. Desexing when the vet says is a good idea, basically with males it should be done before they reach reproductive maturity to limit aggression, but I'm not sure when that is for dogs or if its standard across breeds - if they're like big cats its around 9 months but...they're probably not lol. Vet will have recommended waiting longer than 6mo because some breeds of dog have bones similar to the human skull and they don't fully fuse until about one year of age, so thats what he'll mean by it effecting physical growth. We were told to wait a bit longer to get our Rotti done too, it seems to be a bigger dog thing because they do grow slower than small breeds. On that note if he hurts himself before that 1 year mark keep an eye on any limping or similar signs of injury because you don't want to end up with problems like dysplasia down the track after one leg is a little shorter than the other!

In case you haven't already you should let the council know that you own one - I now TCC requires a permit for Pitbulls and some other 'dangerous' breeds - and make sure you do have a sign up on the fence or whatever that does say 'Beware of the Dog' or something similar, just in case some idiot tries to break into your house and something does happen. If you have a sign up, you're legally covered if someone trespasses and gets hurt because they were notified of the risk. I'd also be making sure you take him out to be around other dogs, and other people, particularly other children, as soon as possible to get him socialised - once again, like a child - that will limit any possessive or protective behaviour he may develop for your DD. Protective behaviour of infants that are seen as 'pups' to the pack is more a female issue, but males will protect the pack in general from anything they perceive as a threat, which includes protecting pups if there isn't a female around that they see to be doing the job. So socialising him in particular with other children and other humans is critical. Also, teaching DD how to behave around animals in general is very important so that she doesn't end up making an innocent mistake that could cost her her life.

Dogs are as individual as humans, and I highly doubt your little fella would have anywhere near as good a life as he does with you guys because giving away a Pitbull to a responsible owner is not an easy task. Too often they are picked up by people looking to put them in fights (this happened after the cyclone in Townsville, heaps of lost dogs like Mastiffs etc were picked up and put in fights to the death, it was just horrible, and I see you're in FNQ so know that dog fights do happen up this way), or use them irresponsibly for hunting. I would give him a chance, but thats just me.

Really the best person to talk to about this would be your vet. At the end of the day, he's the expert and chances are you aren't the first people to ask the question.

I'd be concerned TBH but at the end of the day it's your decision. The thing that stands out to me with most dog attacks is how they will say that the dog never bit anyone before or showed aggression. That freaks me out just thinking about it.

We had a miniature fox terrier and he was the best dog. Very well trained and was an excellent kids dog we had loads of fun with him. Then he started growling at visitors and bit a kid that got down in his face. He turned very aggressive seemingly overnight :( Wasn't long after that that we noticed his eyes didn't look right and sure enough he had cataracts. He ended up getting put down at 8yo.

Anyhoo what I'm getting at here is that you can bring the dog up the right way but they can still turn aggressive. Even when they've not shown it before. In hindsight our doggie was obviously distressed by visitors due to his failing eyesight but we didn't know until it was obvious what was wrong with him.

(written without reading all the posts on this thread...)

Any dog has the ability to get aggressive under the "right" circumstances.
It is very wise to not leave them alone with kids no matter how much you trust them.

Having said all of that, I am a firm believer that it is the OWNER not the BREED that is to blame in this case.
The fact that there have been more pitbull cases just means that the type of people attracted to that breed are generally the ones that encourage the aggressive tendancies in the dog and not take them through proper obediance classes etc.

I have two rottie crosses (one with a GSD and one with a Cavalier) and am constantly being met with looks of fear at the park, despite the fact that they are the friendliest, most sociable girls you could ever meet! They have done two levels of obedience classes and they are both desexed. It's so frustrating!

Love your dog, he's adorable and train him and and never leave him alone with the kids and you should be just fine. :)

Ok goodness! My head is swimming!

Firstly, thankyou everyone for all your feedback, it is greatly appreciated!

Secondly- We wont just be getting rid of him for the sake of it. We will monitor him very very carefully and if he shows any signs of aggression we will put him down. And yes there are signs that a dog is turning aggressive before it actually starts fighting other dogs or attacking ppl, its when the owners fail to recognise them or turn a blind eye that problems arise! I really do believe that if it were to happen we wld be able to pick up on them before anything was to happen. I actually think by us having a dog that is classed as dangerous we will be taking alot more notice of his behaviour and how he is with other dogs.. and will act on it right away. Where as my sisters boyfriend has a 1.5 yr old blue heeler which he is refusing to desex, but god! Wherever he goes he picks a fight with other dogs, whenever our Yogi boy sees him he is attacked by him! Ofcourse its not half as vicious as say a pittie fighting a rottie but still, his behaviour is only going to escalate as he gets more confident. There is no way in hell we wld be keeping Yogi if he was ANYTHING like that! I really really dont believe that when one of these pitbulls lashes out and attacks someone that thnere was no lead up whatsoever

Please do me a favour and watch the link on Youtube Alish suggested a few posts back."Dr Ian Dunbar on dog attacks" What do u guys think??

There were a few posts that you girls wrote that i absolutely loved and took onboard. Others i did listen to and take in but wont be acting on. Thankyou though, its so lovely to know there are so many concerned ppl out there!

Alish- Right now I have absolute faith, like yourself, that our Yogi boy wont attack anyone- dog or human. He has never growled at anything in his life. Ofcourse dogs can change though, so the best we can do is keep an eye on him and try and do the very best in bringing him up we can!

PZ- I have my beautiful baby here, does that mean I 'get' things?? There is nothing I want more in the world then to keep my little girl safe, I knew that before she was here though. From day 1 Alish wld have been doing all she cld to keep her little unborn baby safe- from not drinking or smoking to the simple things like not eating sushi etc. I actually dont think there is anything to get in regards to this situation?? If there is Im not getting it!!

Ellasmummy- Cldnt agree more with everything u said.

Tali- Im the same, I just dont think right now i cld even consider putting him down when hes been nothing but a beautiful doggy. (just 2 weeks ago he alerted us to a 2.5mt venomous snake 3 mtres from where we were sitting having dinner! He wldnt stop barking! We didnt realise he was actually barking at something so dh was getting angry and sent him to his bed, where he continued barking until we went and sussed it out! Very lucky we had him then considering our house isnt screened!)

Tanstar- I do agree that pitbulls shld probably be banned. There is way too much controversy surrounding them. It wld be nice to think that wld stop all the 'bad guys' from wanting one for hunting/ killing and guard dog purposes but sadly it wldnt. They wld still get them.

Tascha- I definitely agree re. the fencing of ur property! We have a 6 ft fence and he has never ever shown any sign of jumping it.. or digging under it for that matter. Whereas our Nala girl spent her whole life digging and trying to get out to play with the kiddies up the street! Gosh half the time i have to carry him into my car cos he wont jump! To answer ur question, if we HAD to get rid of him we wldnt take him anywhere. We wld put him down. We wldnt believe that there wld be any owner out there that wld love him and treat him the way we do. I wld hate thinking that he is somewhere being mistreated.

Artechim-

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Personally if the dog has shown no aggressive tendencies and will be neutered shortly then I would keep him.

And PZ, maybe you were trying to imitate Lulu, but you fell far short and that was plain insulting!

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I completely agree! :)

LMS- Thankyou! Loved what u wrote. I am so so sorry about the dog u had stolen, how devastating.

Starbright- I think ur post was my favourite! I love the way you described the kelpie to pittie transition. I will definitely be listening to ur piece of advice about keeping a very close eye on his behaviour. Thankyou!!

Krysalyss- A big thankyou! i will be looking into what you suggested.

Efjay- Ur in Cairns too! Wld u like to come suss out my doggie?? ;) he is old enough to be desexed already but the vet said to wait a couple months extra then the standard 6 just so he cld grow properly before taking away his testosterone.

Ss_storm- Ur post was another one of my absolute favourites! I LOVE Cesar and what he does with dogs. Thats why i believe that it is up to the owner to train properly. If we had to get rid of Yogi because of aggression problems we wld never forgive ourselves cos we wld know it was basically our faults! I know that we are no Cesar Milans but we can try atleast!!

Doubletrouble- I see where ur coming from re. dogs with babies. He has always been really good with our DD. From day 1 if he heard her crying he wld come and sit next to me or go and sit near her until i went and got her. Now he just cldnt care less about her really! He does try and sneak a lick of her slobbery hand occassionally though!

M2R- Thankyou so much for telling me ur story about ur doggie :) In comparision to ur gorgeous naughty little puppy, Yogi SEEMS to be pretty good so far! He has never bitten anything even playing. I will definitely be looking out for the signs though. Im so sorry you have a few injuries from him. Thanks again


Thats all Im going to comment on now. Ive been inside allday with my baby girl, its time too stop neglecting my doggies and go and play with them for a bit! ;)

FWIW Yogi is booked in to get desexed next week :)

Oh and I do understand all the current laws etc. Im not going to go into that in this thread though. The purpose of the thread was not to find out whether I shld be getting rid of him, but whether there are things I shld be doing to give him the best life possible!! :) Right now, he is our beautiful innocent puppy, if that changes in a few months once hes one and when he starts becoming a proper adult then we definitely wont risk our daughters life or anyone elses for that matter, we will put him down. But for now he plays perfectly with our other dog and all the other dogs he comes across at the dog park. Although half of them are grumpy and just attack him! Poor little boy.. oh well, keeps him inline i guess! :)

Anyway thanks again for ur input! Very much appreciated. :)

Ps. Everyone that comes over to our house (we have mummies groups here all the time)LOVE him! They never stop commenting on what a beautiful dog he is and how they wld love to swap their dog for him!

Pps. Im not feeling so sick about the whole thing anymore, you guys have definitely helped to clear my head on things. It has made me even more determined to keep him 'good' and to watch his every move.

xxx

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Where as my sisters boyfriend has a 1.5 yr old blue heeler which he is refusing to desex, but god! Wherever he goes he picks a fight with other dogs, whenever our Yogi boy sees him he is attacked by him! Ofcourse its not half as vicious as say a pittie fighting a rottie but still, his behaviour is only going to escalate as he gets more confident. There is no way in hell we wld be keeping Yogi if he was ANYTHING like that! I really really dont believe that when one of these pitbulls lashes out and attacks someone that thnere was no lead up whatsoever

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if you intend to keep your dog, keep this other dog as far away as possible. don't have the dog around, don't have your dog near it. if this dog is a meathead that attacks your dog, it is showing your dog that the bahaviour is acceptable. it may take a very small trigger from another animal or person for him to respond. he may think it is in the same playful manner as it was with the heeler, but it could be very dangerous just due to his breed

i am someone who DID watch the video mentioned. i think what has been said by the guy is probably true - in IDEAL circumstances. i don't know too many dogs, if ANY, that are socialised with 100+ people before the age of 12 weeks though, especially given most vets i've dealt with suggest not socialising too much until they've had those first vax (which are around the 12 week mark aren't they?). i also don't think the average family person, with children to be responsible for, has the time to put in as much time to their dogs as is being suggested. given a responsible breeder shouldn't sell a pup until it's 8-10 weeks (ideally - 6 weeks is barely old enough), how can a family person expose that pup to 100+ people in 2-4 weeks in a safe manner.

i also don't think a dog that has responded negatively to a stimulus, no matter what it is, will magically stop just because a treat is offered...

maybe there are aspects of that vid that "prove" the point being made, but i think it's all relative. it's all about an "ideal" owner/animal relationship - which, IMO, would take far more time to foster than the average parent can provide

and i will back the people, to the hilt, that say putting 100% faith in an animal isn't a wise move. anyone that has 100% faith that their pet wouldn't do anything to harm someone isn't going to be as vigilant as they should be, and that's when problems can arise.

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Such a tough call. Cranky kitten said it perfectly to me....it's what pit bulls were bred for.

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I very much doubt a little pitbull puppy is aware of what it's "bred for". I agree whole heartedly that its the way they are treated. We have a German shepherd. At one stage they were banned from Australia because they were seen as aggressive dogs. My husbands pops generation hated them with a passion because of their so called "aggressive behaviour". If you saw some of the things that DS does to Mannix (who, I might add, is a 40+kg dog) you can see there isn't an aggressive bone in his body. Dopey, yes but not aggressive. That is the way he was raised by us. But he is still watched constantly by us with DS, DS has limits on how far he can push him and I'd never leave them alone together. Its not fair on Mannix being tormented by a toddler all the time!
In saying that there is always a throwback. The dog that is raised well but is still nasty. My grandparents had a horrible jack russle that could bring down an entire sheep on it's own.

Also, every dog originated from somewhere wild. Not just specific breads. They're animals first, pets second. People need to remember that as well.

Reet - so good you are feeling better about it! He sounds like a beautiful dog, and you sound like a responsible, level headed pet owner - which is the best thing any animal could want in life.

It's clear you are very aware of your dog and how it interacts with your family and friends. I really don't have enough knowledge on types of dogs to make a comment but i do hope your Yogi stays the beautiful member of your family that he is. I have a dalmatian and she's a beautiful friendly girl but i've seen her grumpy side when we had her paired with another dog (they've since been seperated). The kids yard is seperate to her yard and when they are with her i am always cautious. As i am with any other animals near my children. It is truely devistating to hear of occurances such as we have this week and i feel for the family so much.

Here's to a happy and safe life for the 4 of you :)

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and i will back the people, to the hilt, that say putting 100% faith in an animal isn't a wise move. anyone that has 100% faith that their pet wouldn't do anything to harm someone isn't going to be as vigilant as they should be, and that's when problems can arise.

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i disagree, respectfully - as i am one of those people who said that.
i will be supervising my child at all times when the dogs are around.
my dogs are rarely inside though, so there wont be big changes for them there, but i will be introducing them to bubs and doing my best to keep everything as normal as possible. lots of interaction time.

Oh look at that I didn't even look where you were :) . Dogs don't need their balls to grow properly its a load of rubbish. How old is he? I would be getting him done if he is at least 16 weeks old. PM what vet you seen who said to wait.. Sounds like an idiot LOL.

I just wanted to come back in and reply again... Ever since i read your post and i replied in the middle of the night, i have been thinking and thinking and thinking about you!

I said, Yes, get rid of him... but then i thought of my dog, yes i had her behaviour tested, but what if i had to get rid of her... how heartbreaking would it be... what would i do to try and keep her.
If i was in your shoes, i dont think that i would, immediately react with getting rid of my pet just because a similar dog attacked, what i would do is;

have him desexed straight away
register him as a 'dangerous breed' given that the law may change, i would do this first up to avoid charges (if you have not already done so)
Talk to an expert (not a pro pitty person, a pro doggy person if that makes sense) Someone mentioned an organisation in a PP
Ensure that he can never escape your property
Continue to socialise him with other dogs, but either muzzled or on lead only (its not only your dog that could cause issues)

Another first reaction was to say, make him an outside dog (to decrease the risk), but i would discuss this with an expert as suddenly excluding him, may cause issues in itself.

Now, i am off to google that youtube clip :)

:hug:

I have a staffie, and have had him since before we had kids. In the past I have trusted him 100% with the kids because we have had him since he was a tiny puppy and know he has not been raised to be aggressive. However recently his personality has changed somewhat (we think it might be early signs of dementia) and as a result we watch him more closely and don't let the kids play rough with him or be alone with him. He has never shown signs of aggression but a personality change is a warning and we have taken it as such.

I think if you are a responsible owner then a pit pull will be a wonderful pet. Personally if we didn't have a staffie already I would want a pit bull, they are such loyal and affectionate dogs. It sounds like you are switched on enough to know what is safe with your own child in which case your pit bull will only enhance your family.