Agreed Inanna. This particular case has a lot of "other" factors, but as someone considering all these different options (as a potential first time parent) it all weighs on your mind!
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Agreed Inanna. This particular case has a lot of "other" factors, but as someone considering all these different options (as a potential first time parent) it all weighs on your mind!
It sure does weigh on your mind - it did on mine too - even after doing it 5 times. I think it's always there as a safety factor... It was a scary thought to me but after my first was born I took her to bed as it just seemed natural... and she stayed for a number of years! Then the next was the same and so on...
I think every parent has to do what "feels" right for them. It's important to feel okay with whatever it is you do & also knowing that it's okay if what is right for you isn't so natural for another...
You'll be a great Dad co sleeping or not! :hug:
This is a subject that weighs very heavily on my mind as two years back my sister lost her baby daughter to SIDS.
She didnt co sleep (eta: ) She was concurrent grand multi-parous. The baby was vaccinated the day before. The crib and mattress were brand spanking new. So at no point in time was the baby exposed to the toxic gasses from mouldy mattresses. She did absolutely everything by the book. If the guidelines said do it this way, she did it that way. Every single time.
On the genetic pre-disposition, it is possible. Africans are twice as susceptible to SIDS, and Native Americans - which I am half of - are three times more susceptible. These two cultures are far more hands on then standard western convention and yet are at more risk just because of genetics.
I don't feel that just because someone has an idea that hasn't been clinically disproven that we should just pack up shop and hope it works.
One day we will see an end to SIDS. But until we actually do, lets not cut off our noses to spite our face in regard to research funding.
I can't give "Rep" on my phone so I just want to say (as a co sleeping mum of 3 live children) that your post was fantastic Maya! Well said :)
I think there is always risks associated, with both co and cot sleeping. You have to weigh up the risks and benefits, dependant on your own circumstances. Iknow for me personally, the risks associated with SIDS and co-sleeping with DD were far outwieghed by the very really risk of developing severe PND, exasperated by sleep deprivation (we get more sleep in bed together. I don't handle sleep dep very well and had PND bordering on pyshcosis after ds was born, made much worse by getting up out of bed every hour and a half for the first six months of his life).
Just like any other issue, it is incredibly valuable to know all the info and all your options. You put what you know with what you need, and do what you think is right.
I think there was a thread a while back - I can't recall what or where... that made the distinction between SIDS & suffocation as two different things.
A lot of the risk factors involving couches, sofas, and even co-sleeping in beds - are taking into account babies who were accidentally suffocated by their parents, sometimes with alcohol or drug use as a factor.
I think the subject of that particular thread was that co-sleeping when practised safely & properly actually reduces SIDS risk?
Hi all, sorry for the delayed response.
Firstly - I also agree with you wholehearedly Mayaness - and personally i find it a little offensive that we are told not to co-sleep with our children. I can't imagine how snooty we must sound to those people from less-developed nations who co-sleep with their babies and children because of culture, and also simply because they cant afford (let alone have access to) the pretty little bassinets and expensive cots that are the norm for us.
The book is NOT anti Co-sleeping.
The book is anti-mainstream medical establishment refusing to accept evidence-based research that strongly links (aka proves) the cause of SIDS (toxicity), whilst simultaneously perpetuating the apparent myth (and deep down in my soul I have always suspected it was a myth) that SIDS has no known cause, and preying apon the fear and concsience of parents in order to continue their multi-million-dollar profitable campaign each year for their groundbreaking 'research'. Where is the $$$ going??!! :doh:
We have men (and women!) walking on the moon since the 1970's, and we have sattelites orbiting the planet right now, and yet they expect us to seriously believe that they can't find a cause for why babies keep dying in their beds? Nonsense. These people do not deserve our money for their research that brings forth earth shattering information like - 'sleep babies on their back' hmpfftt. Myself, and (as i have now learned) many others out there do not believe they actually want to find a cause. So long as they can keep this silly charade going they might as well keep making big bucks from a naive and trustful public.
So, I think its time to take the matter into our own hands, and listen to those few individuals (true researchers, I believe) who are working their butts off against a sea of animosity (& money and white-coat power) in order to provide us parents with substantial sense-making information which can truely save lives.
I will be back in a minute to elaborate more- have to get DS lunch!! LOL.
My neice had a brand new mattress in a brand new crib using brand new linen in a brand new dress - all in a near new house.:
I simply cannot see how toxicity could have played any part in her passing. My sister is OCD about germs and cleanliness. She wouldn't even let my kids stay in the same room as her kids when we stayed with her.
And considering these toxic gasses "cannot be detected in post mortem exams" - its hard to called it proven.
My kids however have slept on my well used mattress. Daytime in their second hand cots. I am living in a house built in the 50s!
NONE of that can account for the babies who have passed from SIDS in car seats and their mothers arms.
That is WHY they are still researching. Because those cases contraindict a great deal of accepted folklore. 95% may pass in their bed yes, but the 5% that don't have to have that variable explained. The most logical one is that babies spend more time sleeping and most are put in their bed to do that.
It is like the statistic that most car accidents happen less than 5kms from your home. It is not because of any other reason but that most driving is done within 5km of your home! If people stopped using cots because of the cot death term and started using prams, before long it would shift the problem to prams.
From what I have read of the book it makes it sound like preventing SIDS is as easy as buying a new mattress every time you have another baby. I only wish it were true because then my niece would still be with us today!
It was my understanding that one of the main concerns / causes of 'toxic gasses' was NEW mattresses and bedding - with the plastics and chemical fumes?
I certainly won't be vaccinating til 2 years.
I haven't of course read this book & I want to acknowledge & empathise the pain and confrontion that may be felt by those that have lost a child or loved a child that was lost to SIDS...
Inertia I also am not sure about the "proven toxicity" & I am very interested to learn more about this book. However, I will share some of what I do know & my own personal experiences.
Firstly a new house is known to be far more "toxic" than an old one! This is because many of the materials that are used commonly to manufacture homes emit gases... Floor polishing, painting, the cabinetry are all known to emit toxic gases. Even lounge suites especially those that have beeen treated with stain proofing etc.
We know that these gases can trigger autoimmune responses in adults and children - so it does make sense that the same could happen (to my way of thinking) to a baby.
I personally had four children & then began to lose baby after baby after baby. It was discovered it was due to an autoimmune response & I had developed an "antiphospholipid like" illness... We know there is often a trigger for this. Also we know that often it occurs after someone has built a new house...
Of course it would be erroneous and rash (excuse the pun! :lol:) to lay all of the reasons at the feet of these toxic emissions. However, there is enough concern that it raises lots of eyebrows. This chemical is formaldehyde and it is emitted from particle board, wood panel products etc. If you look around the average new home there are a LOT of these toxins being emitted. This is to name but one. But I believe it to be a big offender.... :cry:
Many excited new parents buy new particle board furniture, recarpet and paint... These, unless a toxic free alternative is used are all carcinogens and toxic...
So, a new environment isn't necessarily a safer one...
The link with formaldeyde emissions and SIDS is not new - it's been suspected for a long time... As with other childhood and adult cancers & autoimmune issues. The rise in autoimmune disease has been substantial - some argue it can be related back to the introduction of the particle board products being used largely in house building and furniture building. Formaldehyde emissions from carpets, paints to name a few...
So, just wanted to add what I do know about this... :hug:
It's really hard you know, i mean there are ppl that have co-slept with there babies successfully and then there are others that have rolled onto them and well lets say the rest is history.
You really need to do what is right for you and your family because there are pro's and con's for both sides and there is never 100% reassurance that something isn't going to happen. All you can do is follow your instincts and do what you feel is right at the time.. that's all we can do as parents!
Ooppps my post was a bit behind...i missed a whole page!
I am finding this really interesting to read though...so please keep going!!
Oh Please! I'm sorry that I don't have more time to respond to this post now.
The "sleep babies on their back" campaign more than halved the number of cot deaths in Australia each year. But yeah - I suppose that it was just an international conspiracy to try and get Mums and Dads to part with their well earned dollars.
Clearly the writers of the book have never actually had to apply for a research grant - trust me - there is no way that you do research into anything unless you actually believe in it - it just isn't worth the effort. Research scientists are some of the most lowly paid people in this country - most would earn more being a checkout operator and not using their years and years of university education.
I would be very interested in reading the book. As a first time mum it is so confusing. Vaccinate or not, co-sleep or not, bassinett or cot, sids prevention etc etc.
I have personally been touched by a sids tradgedy.... my god son passed away in only july last year - he was 10 months old. He was a premmie baby and his mum smoked, he was also formula fed - which apparently increases the chances....he was a healthy happy baby though with no health problems & was slightly out of the 'huge risk' age bracket. He slept in his own cot this particular night, with no bumper and a small amount of blankets. he is able to crawl around and move and was not under any blankets when he was found (didn't suffocate)
Obviously I am so nervous about what i should or shouldn't do - because I don't ever want to go through what his parents have. So i have bought one of those heartbeat sensors and read all about what to do to prevent sids....
Then my doula gave me a book about extremes in raising children, (sorry i can't remember the title now, but i think it was 10 ways of raising kids or something like that)..... and sids was mentioned as was co-sleeping. It said about how in the western world we are so set on giving a baby it's own space, its own room away from human contact like we want nothing to do with it. And we wonder why it cries? All babies want is human touch and stimulation....
In predominately 3rd world countries, they have a significant amount of hours of less crying and fussing by their babies, they co-sleep, breastfeed to comfort the baby when it slightly stirrs (not to a schedule) and they have no cases of sids....
This got me thinking and seriously wondering about co-sleeping. I have bassinett set up next to my bed because i think i will predominately use that - only for fear of being winter and having lots of blankets and pillows in our bed and not wanting to suffocate the baby.
So it's somewhere between a rock and hard place for me atm. I do think that some of the 'statistics' need re-evaluating to determine the real 'no cause' sids and those of 'suffocation' and 'accidents' (ie. parents falling asleep on couch with baby and baby falling down side or something) because it seems that each variable is affecting the number of cases of sids each year. Then it would be very interesting to see what the numbers said.
I haven't read the book yet have on order at library, but have done some googling and would say I am sceptical about it especially after reading the SIDS for KIDS link thanks Just Me for posting. I suppose for me is anything that suggests that people spend years and years of their life researching something and do not actually want to find a cause, I just can not believe.
There are also so many things we do not understand in this world just because we can put a man on the moon etc doesn't mean that we can find an answer to everything. Adults can die in their sleep too (my sister found her flatmate, my DH knows someone who found their husband) and sometimes they just can not pin point why. The biology of us is amazing and immensely complex, to me is no surprise that we can do something technological like launch satellites and walk on the moon but can't pinpoint the cause of SIDS or find a cure for cancer etc.
Also from what I have read it seems to suggest old mattresses are the issue (increasing risk with subsequent children) the book is highlighting, so actually if the research did prove this it would be good for the cot mattress manufacturers. I am not actually clear on who and how big bucks are being made from hiding the info from us?
Very true ;):
I am wondering though - if a parent rolls onto their child and they suffocate or they go under blankets - why is that sids? To me; that is a known cause of death. Prehaps to avoid legal obligations it comes under sids??:o
:
toxicity comes from more then just mattresses
immunisations are full of toxic substances....and babies get a hell of a lot of it in their first year of life http://poisonevercure.150m.com/ingredients.htm]Toxic Ingredients
__________________________________________________ ___
Birth
*Hep B:
1–2 months
*Hep B:
2 months
* DTaP: Diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis vaccine
* Hib: Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine
* IPV: Inactivated poliovirus vaccine
* PCV: Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine
* Rota: Rotavirus vaccine
4 months
* DTaP
* Hib
* IPV
* PCV
* Rota
6 months
* DTaP
* Hib
* PCV
* Rota
_________________________________________________
Im not posting this to scare anyone from immunizations, but simply to recognize that they do infact contain substances are toxic, so we need to be aware of the dangers and make informed decisions for our children and minimize the risk factors if we possibly can.
I have immunized my kids btw... i just waited until they started school.
Bending Reality - firstly I want to wish to offer my sympathy for the loss of your sisters baby. :hug: That is an awful reality for any parent or family member to have to deal with, and I don't doubt that it plays on your mind alot.
I couldn't help but notice that you mentioned that she died the day after vaccination. I have spoken to another parent to whom this same scenario has occurred. I'm not sure what your thoughts are on that, its a very touchy topic, but the link between vaccination and SIDS is something which is covered in the book.
Firstly, I wanted to say that I actually agree with you re: the mattress thing- and the book does not claim that toxic offgases from flame retardant chemicals in baby mattresses is the sole cause of SIDS. It simply explains why it is a major factor for a percentage of SIDS deaths, as well as the interaction between this source of toxicity and other sources of toxicity. The toxicity comes from various sources - and as Peg has stated, vaccines are a large form of that due to many of the toxic ingredients in them. Another major factor is the childs individual constitution and immune strength, and the fact that babies born premature (before 38 weeks), low weight babies, and those with pre-existing health conditions die more frequently from SIDS - their bodies and immune systems are not as readily equipped to deal with the toxicity exposure.
For anyone interested, below is a response to the off-gas toxic mattress theory on Dr Mercola's website by a woman who researches the link between vaccines and SIDS:
A Response to the Toxic Gas Theory of SIDS
Posted by: Dr. Mercola
November 19 2000 | 2,845 views
Comments by Dawn Winkler
Note: This was written in response to a previous article entitled Victory Over SIDS that appeared in the November 5, 2000 edition of the newsletter.
I am very familiar with Dr. Sprott and the BabeSafe mattress wrap, but I am compelled to differ with him somewhat on his toxic gas SIDS theory, based on my 5 years of research. This research has led me to believe that in many instances, it is the vaccine that causes SIDS. I don't doubt that some deaths are brought on by gases created by circumstances stemming from crib mattresses and other sources. I also don't discount that some infants die, who are unvaccinated, from a basic immaturity. This same immaturity can be brought on or exacerbated by vaccination, such as with demyelination or delayed myelination.
Of course, premature infants will be even more immature and are much more likely to die of SIDS. I am bringing this to your attention because I feel that it is imperative that parents are not led to believe that vaccination does not play a significant role in SIDS. Therefore, I'm not sure that BabeSafe is the answer; maybe it is and maybe not. But I know that not vaccinating lowers the risk.
I've spoken with many parents whose children died face up on all kinds of surfaces other than crib mattresses, some even in their mother's arms. They all tell the same story - Their child was not the same from the time they were vaccinated until they died. They started sleeping more, they wouldn't eat, they had a high-pitched scream, etc. Some even had trouble breathing. These are classic vaccine reactions. Some parents were "lucky" enough (for lack of a better word) to have medical examiners with experience and honesty who documented the truth and actually put "encephalopathy" and other classic pathological evidence of vaccine damage in the autopsy report.
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has even compensated 93 families whose infants' deaths were labeled SIDS because the parent had the evidence in the autopsy to prove the vaccine caused it. Yet, the cause of death listing as "SIDS" was never changed on the death certificates of these 93 babies. This information comes from the Freedom of Information Office.
Studies show that SIDS babies have a significant degree of delayed myelination compared to controls (infants who died of known causes). They also have significantly lower levels of creatine kinase in almost every region of their brain. Creatine kinase is critical for heart function, production of ATP, breathing, blood pressure, and plays a critical role in the pathogenesis of hypoxia. Delayed myelination or demyelination is most likely affecting creatine kinase levels. We know that vaccination can CAUSE demyelination as well as delayed myelination. In fact, SIDS infants may possess even antibodies to myelin basic protein, although no one has checked to my knowledge. Studies have shown that children who have become autistic after their MMR vaccine have tested positive for antibodies to myelin basic protein. I'm not saying all SIDS cases are vaccine related, but I'd stake my life on the claim that 60% or more are. I'm actually writing a book on this very subject presently.
Here are a few points of interest, but this is just the "tip of the iceberg":
*
Of 297 death claims filed with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) with SIDS listed as cause of death, 93 have been compensated up to $250,000 because the court felt that the death was really vaccine induced. 28 have not been adjudicated at this point; the remaining 176 were thrown out.
*
Of 471 Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) death reports covering a 4 year period, roughly 60% have the term "SIDS" somewhere in the report along with descriptions like "high pitched screaming from time vaccinated until death".
*
"These SIDS deaths were significantly more than expected were there no association between DTP immunization and SIDS. These deaths were also significantly more than expected. These data suggest a temporal association between DTP immunization, physician visits without DTP immunization and SIDS." (Pediatric Infectious Disease - "Possible temporal association between diphtheria-tetanus-toxoid-pertussis vaccination and sudden infant death syndrome" , Larry J. Baraff, MD, et. al. Vol2, No 1, 1983 p7-11)
*
" ... we found the SIDS mortality rate in the period zero to three days following DTP to be 7.3 times that in the period beginning 30 days after immunization." (From American Journal of Public Health - "Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis Immunization and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome", Alexander M. Walker, MD, et. al., Vol77, No 8, 1987 p945-950.
*
"Causality between DPT, NMS, and SIDS is indicated by the brief intervals, atypical age for SIDS or NMS in some, similar SIDS pathology and symptoms in DPT postvaccinal deaths in the literature, reports of DPT-triggered apnea by Shannon, and experimental SIDS animal models by Steinman and Torch (1985)". (From Neurology - "Diphtheria-Pertussis-Tetanus (DPT) May Be an Unrecognized Cause of Sudden Infant Death (SIDS) and Near-miss Syndrome (NMS): 12 Case Reports", William C. Torch, April 1986, p149)
*
Viera Schiebner, Ph.D. found that all infants experience shallow and/or stressed breathing for up to 30 days following vaccination. She used a unique monitor developed by her husband, a bio-medical engineer that measures breathing. Neither of them suspected vaccines as a cause of SIDS when they began their research, but the evidence was too significant to ignore. Certain days (48 hours, 5-7 days, day 16, and day 24) showed extremely shallow breathing for all infants. These days just happen to correspond with Larry Baraff's study (cited above), he showed certain days to have increased risk for SIDS and he admitted he didn't understand why. (see article on this topic)
* Three unrelated respiratory therapists were interviewed by phone and confided that they warn parents using apnea monitors in non-apneic children to expect more frequent apnea alarms in the few days following vaccination.
As much as I'd like to believe that BabeSafe would save every child from SIDS, one case in particular stands out in my mind. I have become good friends with the mother of a 17-month old girl who died the night of her MMR, Hib, and DPT vaccines. The child had been walking, talking, the whole nine yards. She happened to be a little ill, coming off of antibiotics. She received all three shots (for 7 different diseases) and died during that same night. The pathology in this case is so undeniable, so clear, that I just can't believe that had she been sleeping on a BabeSafe product it would have saved her. This baby girl died from blatant encephalopathy that was clearly vaccine caused. Still, the autopsy report concluded that the cause of death was "unknown" despite the documented encephalopathy.
Her mother filed a claim with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program seven years ago and is finally going to be compensated with the next few months. This is not an isolated instance. I deal with parents like this all the time. Her case just stands out because the child was so much older than typical SIDS cases.
I am not against Dr. Sprott or BabeSafe. I only wish to add this information for a more complete picture.
Sincerely, Dawn Winkler
former Vice President, Concerned Parents for Vaccine Safety
where can i get a copy of this book, i think it will be good for DH to read too