VBAC...EBAC... how do you make that decision...?

I know, some could easily say "Just don't set yourself up for disappointment" which is of course great to say, but in reality not that easy when you've already been through one very disappointing labour.

Shel and I are talking about next time, and until about 2 weeks ago I was adamant I wanted a VBAC... ideally a HBAC...

Then as days lead up to Jazzy's birthday, memories came back, a lot of things/people failed me, and while I can't say for sure it was necessarily my body, the fear of not actually being able to vaginally birth a baby is very big and very real.

So I have been looking into and thinking about getting myself a private Ob, one that supports VBAC/EBAC... my thinking behind this is mostly so that I have someone who supports my want for a VBAC, BUT if at the last minute I decide against that, or if something happens and we end up needing a c/s, I have someone doing the c/s who I know and who knows what I need to make the experience empowering. Even in the event of a severe emergency, knowing what is going on is basically my number one want, as with Jazzy's birth I had no idea what was going on, they lost her heartbeat, and no one told me, the doctors didn't tell me what they were doing and basically i layed there with my heart rate up to 160bpm because I didn't know if Jazz had been born and not breathing or what the heck they were doing to my body and my baby!

And if I chose a c/s, I could work with the doctor to make it a really wonderful experience, hopefully have the baby with me in recovery, actually be able to keep my eyes open afterwards because I haven't been in labout for 42 hours...

( Hmm, this was a bit disjointed sorry )

I'm just not sure. I think the disappointment of two failed vaginal births would be crushing, and I wouldn't even attempt a third pregnancy, let alone a vaginal birth. But the wondering of 'what if' after not even attempting a VBAC (if I went for an EBAC c/s).

How do you do it? How do you go on to try for a VBAC after a really traumatic and disappointing labour? How have you felt after making the decision to go for a EBAC c/s? Do you still have that what if wonder, or did you make peace very early on with not havign a vaginal birth? If you chose to have an EBAC c/s, how do you feel now?

when having dd, i was all psyched about doing a vbac, then i chickened out and just had a c/s, which was an incredible experience, it was really wonderful, which i didn't have with ds.

i do sometimes wonder about having a vaginal birth, and i get jealous of women who have had them, but only for a second, cause for me, it's not that big of a deal.

do your research and see how you go, only you can make the choice for your body.

good luck xoxo

I have watched two very strong women prepare for VBAC's. One was NOT going to hospital and was very traumatised from her c/s birth at the hospital. The other was told she had to have a c/s because of her twins.
The first woman had to do a lot of preparation within herself before she could even become pregnant again for fear of birth. When she met up with some women who told her what she was feeling was real (birth trauma) and not the usual "at least baby is health" spiel she felt she could have another baby. She found herslf an EXCELLENT doula who helped her work through her emotions and fears. She interviewed several IMW to find the perfect one who would assist her birthing her baby the way she wanted to birth. So in all she took absolute control, no-one told her what was going to be happening at her birth. This was HER birth, HER way :)
The second VBACer fought the entire pregnancy to try and prepare for the birth she wanted. She was so strong and willful. She had any of the midwives she spoke with at the hospital on her side. She hired a doula to keep her focused because she knew that birthing in the hospital would not be easy. Birthing time came and a lot of what was on her birth plan the MW on duty was not comfortable with because had no experience with what she had requested. Although not lengthy at all It was quite a difficult birth at times because of restrictions.
I guess what I am saying is if you truly want to take control of a VBAC you must have everyone on you side and not just saying they are to pacify you. You have some birth trauma you need to get your head around, so I suggest you put yourself in contact with some women around you who know what you are feeling is real, possibly some councilling.
If you were to have another c/s, even under you own terms, how will you feel? Will you still have regrets?

xx

Firstly Leash.. Hugs babe! I know how much you have struggled with Jazzys birth!

I dont have the answers for you as I will be going through the same thought proccess as you are soon enough! I think I will try for a VBAC BUT I also have in the back of my mind that I should go for an electove C section. Its a hard one! I know the dispaointment of an emerg c-sect when you had your heart set on a vaginal birth. I really really do.

I guess you need to do whats best for you and I think getting an OB that supports you is well worth it and as you said then which ever way the next birth turns out you have someone that is there for you and will make the birth the very best that it can be!

Good luck hun, I really will beinterested in how you go as I will be goingthrough the same.

Kate xox

What about hiring an independent midwife? That way, they can help you through the pregnancy and help you make the decision about the right birth for you at the time. If you decide for a c-sec, then they can come along and advocate for you, and make sure its as beautiful a birth as you want. M ost IMW know the Obs so they can recommend a good one, and help you work with them.

If you want a homebirth/birthcentre/hospital birth, then an IMW is perfect too.

I recommend IMW because they help so much with the emotional side of pregnancy and birth, which you just don't get with an Ob. My midwife would stay and chat for hours at my house during antenatal visits...she really got into my heart.

GL hun. I hope you find the method that's right for you.

P.S. I think deep down everyone is afraid of a vaginal birth. Everyone is afraid their body won't be able to do it. Bodies are fragile fickle things...its coming to terms with that concept that we all struggle with in birth and why it is such a powerful and yet slightly traumatic experience...for everyone!

:hug: Leasha,

I think Tanya's post pretty much sums up what I was going to say. I would definitely start with some counseling to help alleviate the anxiety/disappointment you have following Jazzy's birth.

Then I would start reading and researching everything you can about VBAC and EBAC both the pro's and con's so you can weigh up your options.

THEN, I would start looking into Obs, IMW and Doula's so you have the support network behind you to help you have the birth experience that you want and people on side who will back you up if you are faced with a situation you are not comfortable with.

Our experiences are very different but I know how frustrating and stressful it is when you are under the knife and NO ONE is telling you what's going on. Its a horrible horrible experience.
It must be very difficult for you I can honestly say I do not know how you are feeling but I believe with some help you CAN have the birth you want and it will be an empowering thing for you.

Nae x

The previous posts have been great.
One thing that I was enlightened about this week was something I probably would have known had I already read the copy of Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering that I have borrowed from my local ABA group library!!
Anyway, my osteo (childless, but passionate about birth choices - she's gold!) was telling me about a section in the book that talks about the third stage of birth that is pertinent for vaginal AND c-sect births. You can specify in your birth plan that you want the placenta lifted out before the baby and kept above the baby for optimised transfer of blood and oxygen. See, the blood pressure drops dramatically when the baby is elevated above the placenta, as even happens in vaginal births when the middies/medicos lift the baby up too soon and don't realise the benefits of keeping the baby low. It means that with more oxygen transferring to the baby's circulatory system, the better the breathing rate will be :) Anyway, it's something I now have to add to my homebirth plan (incl my preferences for an emerg c-sect, like I had last time), to make sure DP can keep his enthusiasm in check and keep the baby low till I birth the placenta.
Counselling, a private midwife and/or doula and you'll be a lot better equipped for the eventualities :hug:

:hug: I know how you feel at the moment, I put off my next baby for 5 years due to the stress of my first birth. But I thought I would share my story, I hope it helps. I'm still putting together my full birth story which I'll post soon, but this is a condensed version.

I've just tried a VBAC and after a 12 hour labour my DH and I chose a c-section as I just wasn't progressing. I'm happy with the decision we made. I don't feel like I failed because I went into labour naturally, didn't use any drugs until gas at the end and we chose the c-section on our terms. I wasn't exhaused like my first c-section and I had skin to skin and bf on the table and DD2 came to recovery with me. I have bonded much better with DD2 than I did with DD1 at this age as well as I wasn't recovering from the stress.

Even though I didn't get my VBAC, I feel at peace with the decision we made and the benefits we had from the c-section. The most important thing for me was to bf and to bond with my baby which is what I got. I guess if you work out what is most important to you and focus on that then no matter what happens you will be happy with the result. I also did hypnobirthing, which helped me be positive and focus on my baby.

But as the pp have suggested, talk to someone and work out what you want to do this time. Good luck!

When I was deciding whether to go for the vbac with DS2 I had the same thoughts as you. I came to the conclusion that I would never be really satisfied if I didn't at least attempt a vaginal delivery. An emergency c/s didn't seem like such a terrifying experience the second time around, no more terrifying for me than opting for the elective c/s.
I can't offer any real advice for you when it comes to trusting your body though. Unlike you I didn't have the fear that my body couldn't do the job as my first c/s was for PE. I always just assumed that if my BP could behave then I would be able to birth my baby vaginally. I have read previous posts about your first birth and I think that with real support and the knowledge you now have you have a great chance.

Noone really knows what will happen with each birth... even women who have had multiple complication free vaginal births can require a c/s with another. An elective c/s is sure to be a more pleasant experience than your first birth. You need to decide whether you will regret not attempting to vbac, irrespective of the outcome.

Big :hug: to you. I know how much this has affected you honey and it's VERY understandable to feel the way you are right now as it's the "anniversary" and it WILL affect you more right now than it did a few weeks ago. That in itself is normal. I think too that some councelling will help you. You are grieving in a way and your mind just can't get around some things. My VBAC was different.... I didn't have the labour then emergency c/s. However, that left other thoughts in my head about could I have a baby vaginally anyway... stupid thoughts seeing as I'd never tried but I had doubts about it.... I had doubts with the second VBAC too, in fact even worse than with Oskar.

I think that you need to come over for a coffee one day and we can just talk and you can just rant and rave at me to help process some of the stuff out of your mind.

Hi Leisha!
Everyone else has said some fantastic things. I know just how u feel!
I'd also like to share my story with you and I hope it can encourage you.

I had a traumatic c-section with my first son and just assumed that I would have a natural birth with my second. I was told at 38weeks that I was booked in for a c-secton and that because I had already had one c-section I always needed one. Apparently a vaginal birth was simply not an option. Although my second birth wasn't as 'scary' I was devistated! When DS was born they braught him to me all wrapped up and I looked at him once and told them to take him away. I felt like such a failure as a mother. :(

4 years later I fell pregnant again... it was a total surprise! I did some online recearch and found bellybelly.... this place is amaing!

I read lots of info online -
Birthrites - Healing After Caesarean
Plus-Size Pregnancy Website Cover Page
International Cesarean Awareness Network
VBAC.com - a woman-centered, evidence based, resource.

I also hired an independant midwife. I spent HOURS talking thru my pevious births with her. Talking about how I felt.. Sometimes I would cry and other times I would be so angry with the Dr's for how i was treated. We also read over my birth notes (I would highly reccomend this) She was truly amazing.

Thru bb I found a VBAC friendy ob. I didn't want a homebirth as I have other complications - gestational diabetes, overactive thyroid, very overweight etc. :)
But my Independant midwife came and supported me in hospital.

Just before my due date bubs stopped moving.... I called the hosp and they wanted to induce me. I lost the plot!! Cried the entire way to the hospital. Then we spoke to the ob for over an hour about our 'choices'. I decided to go ahead with induction and got my midwife in to support us. I labored in the bath and had a successful VBA2C :)
He was born with forceps because his heartrate dropped while I was pushing but it was still the most wonderful and empowering experience of my life!

But how do u know what u need to do? Or what is the best way for you? Well thats a question that no-one can answer. U need to do whatever U need to do for U. Its your body and your baby and your decision.

I wrote a VERY detailed birthplan including very specific instructions for if I needed another c-section. My birthplan took hours of tears and recearch. It was actually very beneficial and had a huge roll in my 'healing'.

Now that I have had a vaginal birth I still don't feel any differently about my first two births. It dosn't make them ok. But I know that my third birth I was in controll and it was how I wanted it.

I really wish you all the best and hope u have an amazing and empowering pregnancy and birth! If u have any questions feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to chat :)
Oh and during my pregnancy I had days were I felt strong and in control and positive and other days I was doubting every decition I was making. That is completly NORMAL! :)

Jules :D

Leasha

I had the same fear with my 2nd baby's birth. I saw my counsellor (psychologist) for preparation, we started to prep 2 months before the birth of my 2nd baby, I did not have a VBAC due medical reasons but I did work with her to aleviate all the trauma of the first birth (32 hours labour and then emergency c/s). The most important thing she said to me is to remember this birth is NOT the first baby's birth it is a completely separate birth and separate experience, I must remind myself of this and not associate it with the first birth at all. Also had calming exercises to do when got anxious about the birth when I went to the hospital for the birth and while waiting for surgery.

Hope this helps.

Leash you know what, having a failed VBAC attempt, whilst very upsetting was absolutely not crushing for me. I am totally at peace with Juliette's birth, but still not with Alexzander's. I think it's all about the circumstances. I worked so so hard to get my VBAC & whilst it didn't happen I know in my heart that I did absolutely everything I could have to get my baby out vaginally. Absolutely everything. I truly believe it's about how you approach the birth, not just the success or "failure" of the VBAC attempt.

Leading up to Zander's birthday I still think about what we both went through to get him here & it still upsets me. In the days before Juliette's birthday I was ok. A little upset over the missed time immediately after her birth but otherwise I was ok.

Sorry had to go for a bit, little miss needed me ;)

The best thing you can do Leash is to decide exactly what it is you want from a birth. Think about it completely independantly to Jazzy's birth. If this next baby was your first what would you want for him/her? When I though about Juliette's birth, before I was even pregnant, I thought that if she was my first there is no way I would go for a c/s & I wouldn't want an artificial birth date chosen for her. So what was the difference? Just because I had had a bad experience I wouldn't try again? I have severe shoulder damage due to a car accident seven years ago but it didn't stop me driving that same road again 100 times IYKWIM.

Now for our third child I won't be trying for a VBAC. I just simply cannot get to a place in my heart & in my head to try again. I am fine with that decision. I can't put myself through it all again. However I will be opting for my c/s to be performed ON the due date (or after if it's a weekend) & if I happen to go into labour beforehand I will try my hardest to have a VBA2C. You may go that way with your second & that's ok.

You need to do what's best for you. It's no good going into a VBAC attempt with the overruling thoughts being that you can't do it & that it will be the end of you if you have another c/s. You have to be at peace with the possibility that you will need a c/s. You might not have one, but you have to be prepared for the fact that you may go through labour & end up with another c/s. If that thought is too much for you, then you make the choice to have a c/s. No-one is entitled to make you feel bad if you choose to have an elective c/s because you can't bring yourself to go through labour again. NO-ONE! You have to do what you can live with, what is going to give you the best experience.

If you need to chat hun, you know where I am. Whilst I might not have had a VBAC, I know the process very well. I know how hard it is to get past the sheer terror of going through labour again. I know the fights with the doctors. I know the pressure you put on yourself to do everything perfectly. The only part I don't know about is just a tiny bit at the end ;)

:hug::hug::hug: just wanted to give you that i dont have the answers for you im sorry but you have been offered some great advice. I think you could be more prepared than what u think cause your being very realistic. saying you may in the end need a cs and you want someone whom can help you and support you with a vbac and if needed a cs. Also someone whom can help you have if required an empowering cs :) can i ask what u think would enable you to be empowered if needing a c section? i have herd of mothers being able to lift the baby out of their tummies dont know if this is something you would be interested in.

Awww :hug: Leasha, I so know how you feel. I find myself changing my mind all the time. VBAC?, or maternal assisted caesarean? I want a home waterbirth? no maybe I should have a private OB in case things don't sail smoothly? My mind just doesn't stop really.
I suffered birth trauma too. My cs was elective because of pre-eclampsia so I missed out on my much desired VB but also my CS was under a general because they couldn't get the epi to work properly and I still grieve my "lost" birth experience to this day.

What i do know is, I'm going to surround myself with positive supportive people next time. I'm also much wiser now. I'm also going to have a detailed birth plan that covers all the main possible scenarios. I know I need to keep an open mind, because if there's one thing I've learn't - even with the best intentions sometimes things don't go to plan. But what I HAVE decided is that I will not have a surgical birth again unless there is a true medical need for it.

I hope you find some peace to move forward for an empowering birth, whichever the mode of delivery.

I just found this thread Leash.... while having exactly the same dilemmas!! As you know we both had very similar births and although I am kind of ok with the c/s, I now doubt my body's ability.

My plan of attack at this stage is
1. Go and debrief with a counsellor. There are just some issues that I can't let go of and they almost reduce me to tears every time I think of them.
2. Hire an IMW or Doula. One of my main issues was the midwife I had and although I knew I could have kicked her out and demanded another I didn't want to rock the boat.... a decision I deeply regret. I figure an IMW or doula can kick out a midwife I am unhappy with, allowing me and DH concentrate on our task at hand.
3. Do a refresher of Calmbirth. I think Calmbirth or Hypnobirth is a very useful tool for childbirth, and I know our instructor really instilled confidence in me and explained what our rights are in hospital. You could possibly go down this path if it sounds like something you are interested in.
4. Research, research and research some more. I figure the more facts I know and the more positive stories I read the more confident I will be in both my rights and my body's ability to VBAC. I did read a really fantastic story the other day on Birthrites, so that got me started.

Now I know my Ob is supportive (he was the one that suggested Calmbirth to me, even his children were birthed this way), but he is an Ob at the end of the day and thinks in a medical way which I don't blame him for, it is that expertise I am paying him for. And I am glad he performed my c/s because he did it with great respect for us, did a great job which allowed me to heal quickly and kept us well informed of everything that was going on.

But first things first - I need to debrief my disappointing birth.

I wish you all the best when it is time.