CiO? What else is there? I need SOLUTIONS!

My question is - How do you get babies to self settle WITHOUT leaving them to cry? I NEED him to sleep better - for my own physical and mental health and for my relationship with my DH (I am too tired and stressed to give him much time)

Background: My DS is almost 8 months old and slept really well until 5 months.Up until then (at night) he could be fed, cuddled, put into bed, sleepy but awake, and he'd go to sleep - with one or no wake ups - perfect. At 5 months he started waking 1-3 times per night, I'd stumble out, feed him, put him in the cot, back to sleep, 5-15 mins max - no probs - can handle that. THEN he started NOT sleeping by himself - so we'd make sure he was asleep in our arms before putting him in - took a bit longer - but OK - he was becoming more aware and more active - completely understandable. THEN he started waking when put into the cot - and rolling, playing, whinging, talking/babbling etc - so we'd pick him up again and put him back to sleep, sometimes this happen 3,4,5 times and took up to 2 hours - perfect timing - I was going back to work part time :wall: NOW its getting worse he is crying in his bed to be picked up...I CAN'T keep rocking him to sleep - I NEED to sleep - my DH commutes and NEEDS sleep and we have a house guest for the year who is in the room next to Blake :wall:

So to get to the point I HATE the idea of CIO - I think I cried as much as DS tonight -but what other solutions are there that do not involve me rocking him to sleep for hours? I know lots of you cosleep and we do this sometimes during the day when I am desperate - but he is a windmill in bed - does 360's in his cot all day/night - I'd get less sleep than I am already! Plus there's not much room with DH and I :redface: I left him to cry tonight - with the support of my DH and a friend who came over to "distract" me. He screamed - an angry tantrum sounding cry I have never heard before. it took 15 mins of de-escalating screams (with reassurances during this time) and he went off to sleep - I feel like the WORST mother in the world - I keep thinking - what if he dies in his sleep and thinks I have abandoned him!

So what else is there?

Note: Please DO NOT judge me, tell me I am doing him terrible harm etc - I am asking for solutions NOT judgment

aw babe, hugs!!!
15 mins seems like an eternity i know but i did it with my DD a few times and then she just learnt i wouldnt come in...if its an angry cry he probably is just peed off at you caus hes used to being rocked etc...
i might get crucified for saying this but its not in the gentle parenting section so i should be ok...if hes fed, not too hot or cold, no wind, etc, then its ok to let him cry (more like protest) for a while (and i know it breaks our hearts!!)

some ideas u may hav already thought of could be maybe hes sleeping too much during the day, maybe hes uncomfy (wind, teething), also around this age they get seperation anxiety
HTH hun

Thanks Emma - your advice was great and just what I needed!

He is a bit sore in the gums - but has had neurofen and bonjela and is happy when not being made to go to sleep :)

He def sounded pee'd off with me :) Thanks again for the help/advice/reassurance!!!

Does he have a comfort object? I found that DS is happy to sit in a dark room with his bunny and all I have to do is sit by the bed and read/type while he goes to sleep. If he cries I can just tell him that I'm there and he needs to go to sleep. That calms him down.

For the nights, I just give DS a drink of water (still!). But he has a slurp while I go to the loo and when I'm finished half the time he's back to sleep anyway.

Another thing that helps is giving porrige before bedtime. That fills them up for the whole night so waking is a lot less likely.

NP hun, and lady zaidie is spot on about the water/comfort toy...

they can get fairly ridiculous sometimes i know my DD would scream and work herself up so much and youd think omg she is gonna cry herself to death and you go in and they smile and stop...thats when you know its not on anymore! LOL

DD is teething atm and i hate having to give her nurofen before bed most nites but she seriously would not sleep/settle without it (imagine being with someone you like all day, but have a headache, then they leave and u feel like crap...as if you wanna go to sleep!) :lol:

:hug:

No judgement here hun. We have had lots of sleep issues here too.

One thing that helped (didn't solve everything though!) was to delay DS's bedtime on the nights he wasn't interested in going down. So this meant that some nights he was up until 10 or 11pm :o It was just way easier than spending hours settling him to sleep only to have him wake 40mins later. Often when he was up longer in the evenings, he slept longer stretches overnight too. Now, at 12 months, we're back to a more decent bedtime.

ETA - Sorry had to dash to feed DS. A lot of parents find sleeping on the floor of the nursery on a mattress is helpful. You're right there if it's a seperation thing and can often respond quickly (so re-settle faster). I've even heard of putting the baby on a mattress on the floor being helpful. Some kids just don't like cots.

Have you thought about a sleep school? They're not for everyone and we haven't been but you do sound like you need some support IRL. Friends I know who've been have returned with mixed reviews. If you don't like it or it's not helpful you can always leave early.

I'm not sure if you're b'feeding or not or how you'd feel about this but I have friends who have always given the last feed as a formula bottle in order to get a longer stretch of sleep. It's not something I've personally done but I've been told it can work.

:hug: hun. You sound at the end of your rope. I really empathise with needing toothpicks to keep your eyelids open.

Huge hugs to you hun. I don't have solutions to offer I'm afraid but I just wanted to offer some hope. DD's sleep followed almost exactly the same pattern. Brilliant 'till 5 months and then gradually deteriorated 'till by 8 months she was waking 3-5 times a night and was a nightmare to settle / resettle. We haven't really changed much (apart from adding a few little tricks which sometimes help her get to sleep like a particular toy or when I jiggle her a particular way) but on her own she's gradually started to get better. She still needs to be rocked to sleep but she's resisting it less now so it usually takes abt 10 minutes, and now she's back to waking 1 or max 2 times a night.

It WILL change. I hope so much that it changes very very soon for you. Sleep deprivation is torture. Sending you lots and lots of ZzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzz's!

big hugs to you!!!!!sounds so much like DD!! at about 5 months she would lay in her cot and coo and chat for a min then be asleep!! then slowly but surly it changed and got harder and harder, progressing to hours of rocking and patting and laying and in my head swearing!it got to a point by 12 months that id go in to put her down at 7.00 and i wouldnt be out till 10!! then she would be awake again by 12! and it started over...i swear at times it was harder than having a new born!!!
I wasnt interested in CIO or CC so i just had to stick it out.but i know others who swear by it. shes pretty good now but i feed her to sleep and if that fails i lay down with her (she is in a big bed now) and pretend to be asleep and that works, sometimes after five mins, sometimes an hour!
i totally understand your frustration though! i had my moments when i just walked out and left her to cry, just to gather myself! sometimes you just get to breaking point.
have you got a good night time routine? DD improved when she dropped a day sleep, but i think hes a bit young to go to one day sleep. other than that...hope you get some good answers....and more sleep!

ControlFreak, first of all big hugs. When my DD was about the same age we went to sleep school - her waking was beyond extreme - and with my DH away I was literally hallucinating from lack of sleep. You don't want to get to that point. Co-sleeping wasn't an option for me because I sleep really heavily and am obese so it was a risk I wasn't prepared to take. I had persisted with "gentle" techniques for several months by that point but the situation was just getting worse, despite using all the tricks I learnt with DD1.

At the sleep school they taught a method that involved comforting your child in their cot every 5 mins...step one is to find a calm space inside yourself, then go in, tell your child firmly but lovingly to lie down, it's time to sleep, that they are safe and you love them. Then settle them by patting/rubbing back/singing/shhhhing/ but in their cot. Then you go out. If they cry, you never leave them longer than 5 mins (unless the crying is petering out because they're falling asleep). Then you go in and resettle, for a couple of mins, using same technique. You never leave them alone to cry and cry, the trick is to keep going in there at the same frequency (5 mins or a little shorter if you really can't handle it) for as long as it takes, but never picking them up, soothing and comforting in bed. If they are really distressed you can offer a cuddle in the cot, but then straight back into bed to resettle. If they don't settle after the alloted time, you go out anyway. It's hard for the first few nights but after that baby responds more readily to the soothing, and the technique is more about the soothing in the cot rather than the crying. This is not the same as controlled crying where the child is left to cry for ever increasing periods of time, with much less reassurance and comforting. It's also important not to try to do this sort of routine when your child is unwell, when they need extra holding and parental contact than usual.

The other thing I did was increase the energy density of the solid food I was giving her (with extra cheese and full fat dairy) and offering an extra feed before I went to bed last thing at night, as her weight gain had leveled off. The bedtime routine is pretty important too. I also introduced a small snuggle toy at this age which I kept in my bra for a week before giving it to her so it smelt like me. If you do this, make sure you have 2 or 3 of the same toy to save you crawling around trying to find it under the cot in the dark LOL.

I also experimented with a nightlight but this went very badly and in the end decided it was best to keep the room as dark as possible. I also invested in a stool which was the right height so I could sit and lean on the cot side while I patted and shooshed, which helped with my comfort levels which is important when you're operating on so little sleep. I had a particular lullaby tune that I would hum from beginning to end twice & that was the right length to settle her. After about 10 days I really only ever had to go in once or twice to settle and most of the time she just settled happily and went to sleep without any more crying. However on the few occasions she didn't settle I could go right back to the beginning with the technique and the consistency really paid off.

:hug: It's hard not to have enough sleep.

Some ideas I have that may or may not help.
- Can you put him down earlier? During a stage of one of my boys resisting sleep-time, I found I was leaving it too late, and putting him down earlier before he had a chance to get his 'second wind' worked.
- I'm not great with routines, but some people swear by a routine so that when the same thing happens each night, bub gets used to learning to wind down. Dinner, bath, bottle/story, bed, whatever.
- Do you have a laptop? Or a good book/magazine, and a low light, and maybe you could just sit with bub as he tries to settle? You can reassure him that you're there, but maybe see if he's okay with you not picking him up? You could still lay a hand on him or pat him if needed. But you won't be bored, if you can get your partner to grab you a cuppa, it might feel like relaxing down time for you too!

Anyway. Take or leave them. Hope you and bub get some good sleep going. xo

Thanks so much everyone - I have recently been contemplating the old adage that it "takes a village to raise a child" BB and you guys are definitely part of my village - so THANKS!!!

The judgment free advice is sooooo appreciated - Thanks LZ, TM, Kaz, Santosha and Beckoes and Nelle - you all have some great advice!!!

Special mention/thanks to Marydean - I am going to print your wonderful post for future and further reference!!! (I just repped you for another thread so can't do it again - have to spread the love :) )

That's ok! I hope you get some success. I forgot to say, if bub is crying, get away, have a cuppa, do some deep breathing, read something, listen to some soothing musack in your ipod - so that when you go in to comfort your bub they will respond to your calmness (this is why the nurses at the sleep clinic as so good at settling, they know to go to their calm space before they pick the baby up LOL). And make some special time to play together and share your physical affection so that DS is getting lots of love & physical contact during the day. :)

*hand up in the air*

I'm another who had a wonderful sleeper... up until the same stage you are at. I did attachement parenting and co-slept and it worked so beautifully. Then things began to change and in hindsight I can see it is because DDs sleep patterns were changing and her cognition and interaction with the world was increasing but I wasn't changing the way she slept.

I was, like you, a walking zombie and going insane when everyone else's sleep problems seemed to be finally sorting themselves out! :doh: I tried to gently parent it out for months before I finally got help. It was not a healthy thing to do as I was a mess and both DD and my marriage suffered for it.

I also ended up at sleep school and it was a godsend. It was certainly not CIO or anything draconian by any means and was very much as Marydean posted. She has offered you wonderful advice in my opinion, and I am going to give her rep points for you!!! ;) (ETA- argh, couldn't! Seems I have been giving her too much love also!)

The other little hint I have is find a way to approach this calmly with the firm belief that there is a solution. What worked for me was committing to it and giving the calm approach. I used to peel myself out of bed with dread when she stirred at night to try to re-settle and flop down again as soon as she did only to have to get up again. That was pure torture. When I used Marydean's technique (;)) I approached it differently. I would go in and do the initial settle, calm words to let DD know I was there and everything was alright then tell her to go back to sleep, leave and go and put the living room lights on, the kettle on and fire up the computer. Having another reason to be up - a cup of tea or the internet - really helped my sanity rather than sitting there listening to her and thinking about bed or worse, falling back into bed listening! I would only be gone for a minute, then go back for more calm words and settling, or in her case placing her back down from standing. It was all about the repetition and me letting her know that I was there, everything was alright, but that she had to go to sleep. It worked. I was amazed that with the calmness, I never had to leave her long to cry - I would describe it more of a winge mostly and she really quickly learnt to lie herself back down and very shortly, to resettle.

I will admit that in the beginning there were howls of protest which certainly sounded angry and I did respond to them too, in just the same way. I never left her for more than 5 min (I used the clock on the computer!) I realised that the howls were because she was a smart cookie and was telling me that she didn't want to sleep. My reasurrance regularly was telling her I understood, but not sleeping was not on. I was teaching her to sleep in the gentlest way I could while still being effective IYKWIM.

I also agree with Marydean's statements

:

---

This is not the same as controlled crying where the child is left to cry for ever increasing periods of time, with much less reassurance and comforting. It's also important not to try to do this sort of routine when your child is unwell, when they need extra holding and parental contact than usual.

---

Very true. One of the big problems with CIO is the length of time babies are left and the lack of appropriate comfort. This causes long term elevated stress hormones in the brain which are detrimental to the developing brain.On the other hand if your baby is in a stressful situation (maybe such as the anger I was describing earlier) for a short period of time but you offer reasonable and realistic comfort to help them calm down, you are in fact teaching them ways to moderate this stress. I hope that makes sense... it is late and I should be in bed!

I also did the same thing during day sleeps and spent that week or so close to home without too many outings (as much a routine as possible) to really cement the process.

All the best, I hope you can work this out quickly as it is very distressing to deal with. No judgement, you obviously have your LOs best interests at heart and you can't ask for much more than that in a mum. Babies are all so different and the hard and fast rules of "you must do this" or "you must never do that" just don't really cut it in the real world. You have to find the happy medium and do what feels right for you when you have good information behind you.
:hug:

Do you think he might like wrapping? We had a lot of issues with DS2 at around that age with sleep and one night I decided to wrap him and we had a full nights sleep. I didn't think of it earlier because none of mine ever really liked wrapping and certainly not at that age! Could you try reading to him in bed, get him nice and relaxed, use a dim light to read by so the room isnt' so bright and then just sit with him, beside the cot and just put a gentle hand on him to keep him in the one spot. We had more sleep issues with DS2 about a year ago now and he flat out refused to sleep in his cot and it got beyond a joke and I decided right, no more of this so we put the cot back in our room (we'd moved it in with DS1) and every night I would put him in bed by 8pm, turn the light off, turn the small tv on in our room with the sound muted so there was light and just sat beside him with my hand on him. The first few nights he cried a lot because he wanted to get out, but I was always there with a gentle hand on his shoulder. The first night took nearly an hour for him to go to sleep. He wasn't crying for that entire time though, he settled but was just awake kwim? I couldn't leave the room till he was fully asleep either. by the end of the second week I was able to say to him, 'ok, I have to go do xyz, I will be back in a minute' and after 5-10 mins I would go back and check on him and 9 times out of 10 he would be asleep and within a month I was able to put him to bed awake and leave him there. It really helped doing it at the exact same time each night too. Even if you don't have a routine as such during the day, having one at night might help and get him clued in that its nighttime and time for him to wind down and go to sleep. I hope it doesn't last much longer for you though.

Just wanted to offer you some hugs too :hug:.

My DS2 was a shocker overnight and by 5.5 months I was slipping into depression. I was beside myself and did not like the person I was becoming from sleep deprivation. My boys and DH and I were all suffering because of it. Our paediatric chiro recommended using a method very similar to what Marydean described (great description btw :D). I stayed at my mum's house for a few days for the extra support during the day (she helped look after DS1, cooked for me, etc) and tried the method at her house. It took 5 nights and DS2 was sleeping through the night. It was the best thing we could have done. There was actually very little crying (it just feels like heaps at the time) and DS2 was not at all traumatised because there is lots of reassurance, no CIO.

If you need help/support/a cheering squad, etc., please don't be afraid to post in here and ask for it.
We'll all be here for you :hug:. Feel free to PM me any time too :).

CF, the only advice I can give is be consistent with what you do.
What you are going to do will most likely involve tears. Chances are, once your bubs learns what to expect, she will settle almost straight away.
But this may take a couple of days.
Dont waver in your going to bed routine and dont give in and get her up unless you have absolutly no choice. Giving in will only(at best) prolong the angst and (at worst) will cause it to fail.
There is an amazing amount of security in routine and once your bubs knows what the drill is, she will most likely just fit in with it with minimal fuss.
Good luck and I hope whatever you decide to do is successful.

Between 8-11 months the ONLY way that DS would sleep was with me. I got a mattress on the floor where we slept - that way there was enough room for him to toss and turn and me to get some sleep. Otherwise we were up every hour or so - oh, he'd go straight back to sleep when we got there, but would wake up again to seek reassurance. He had separation anxiety bad, then started teething:doh:.

BUT, once the anxiety receded and we got a teething necklace, he went back to sleeping by himself.

All the best - we all know how hard it is

I have been so close to writing a very similar post lately! I have a similar situation, although Kyson has never been a good sleeper. His longest regular stretches of sleep during the night has been 3.5 hourly, but lately he's regressed back to 1.5-2.5 hourly. He refuses to go back to sleep and just screams until I feed him and rock him back to sleep. He also gets rocked/bounced on a fitball to sleep at bedtime, and for each nap. He's only ever fallen asleep in his cot ONCE. I'm not so worried about rocking/bouncing him to sleep, but I think I might need to do something to help him sleep longer stretches over night. I'm waking with pancake breasts in the morning because of all the night feeds! We may try the technique that marydean wrote about for the evenings, but not sure how that would work once we go to bed because Kyson co-sleeps with us (his cot is sidecar-ed to my side of the bed), so it's not like I'm going to get out of bed to leave him, lol. I actually cope ok with the wakeups at the moment, but we're hoping to be pregnant again soon and DH is worried that if I'm as sick as I was with Kyson, then sleep is going to be a precious commodity.

CF - I hope you can find something that works for you. And if you find some magic sleep technique, then I'm sure there are a bunch of us that would love to hear about it ;)