Help with formula feeding newborn

Due to circumstance out of our control, I am FF my 5 week old DS -- since he was 10 days old.

We started on S26 as that is what the hospital gave us, but there was so much fussing etc (and as this is our second son, having BF first for 2 years, we were/are very unconfident with formulas)

We were adviced by MCHN to try Nan HA which we did. I have found that he still is very fussy at the bottle and throws up A LOT and had a lot of burping and gulping at the teat (I use Y teats). He would be incredible unsettled at 4am-630am (!!) but also from 4pm -630pm!

At my last visit (yesterday) to the MCHN she again suggested another change this time to Karicare De Lac. It has not yet been 24 hours, but he still is throwing up heaps and rather than burping is very very windy ...

What to do? Should I stay on the Karicare? Or go back? Is this normal?
BTW my pead didn't think it was ness lactose intolerance and he said prob this would just right itself in 3 months (I told the MCHN this and she said that she thought it would be worth trying the De Lac anyway and that is what she would di in my situation). Am I being neurotic then?

My DH thinks that DS hates the Karicare -- but it's been less than 24 hours so I am hesitant to say that. We also swapped formulas without doing any progressive or gradual change -- is that bad?

HELP!
Thanks!

It's interesting that your childs unsettled periods are twelve hours apart. My sons were, it also coincided with horrendous nappies and I was told it was oversupply (I was bf)
I know you are FF, but are you doing it on demand or to a schedule?
I was going to recommend an HA formula as well but it sounds like you have tried that, maybe get a check for reflux?

ETA: Is he upset when he vomits or a happy chucker? What's his weight gain like?

ETA2: with the 12hours, that's about the time it takes the sugar/lactose to ferment in the gut

Id choose a HA formula and try it for at least a couple of weeks. Maybe try diffferent teats also.

I would say he has reflux - sounds pretty similar to what my DD2 was doing.

FWIW, i've read that lactose intolerance in babies shows as coming out the other end in great waves, not puking ;)

We tried DD2 on a lactose free formula, made NO difference to her puking whatsoever. We tried EVERY formula to try and stop the vomiting, tried infant gaviscon for the reflux pain (cos she would scream during and after feeds) and that helped a little. When she was 3 months we took her off the gaviscon, and she is much better now. She doesn't scream, she still vomits - but its nothing compared to what it used to be.

I wouldn't personally try a different formula, because it probably won't make a difference. We have her on Heinz Nurture now, cos we figured if all of them have the same effect, then we aren't going to spend $30 on a tin, when we can spend $17 or something like that.. LOL

But yes, as she gets older she gets better. I was advised to try the normal things to help reflux babies - sleep them on an incline, sit them up for 20 minutes after a feed, feed them sorta sitting up instead of laying back in your arms etc. The only thing we didn't do was sleep on an incline, we have her on her belly, she sleeps better that way and we think it soothed her belly pains. However, she does vomit and then roll her head in it which is grosssss.

I have no experience with a reflux baby so I have no idea about spotting the signs for it. You've been given some wonderful advice above.

However I did have a "happy chucker" ie lots of spews but no pain or discomfort from it apart from not liking being in wet vomity clothes. It might be worth trying a different bottle or teat. My DD still spewed, but not so spectacurlarly, when I changed her bottles and teats. Maybe the Y cut is a bit fast for him still.

DD was a greedy guts but at 5 weeks she was on a teat with only one hole still, and I think I moved her up to a 2 hole teat around 8 weeks. (MAM Ultivent if you are interested, the bottles are a PITA because the bottom unscrews as well so a bit fiddly to clean, but they are quite cheap, available from Target and Big W, and BPA free if that is important to you. And for us at least, lived up to their claim of less wind).

Do you give him a rest and a burp halfway through the feed?

ETA: My DS hated Karicare. Have you tried it? It stinks and tastes awful LOL. He liked Bellamy's Organic which has a much sweeter flavour and smell and we found NAN very similar in smell and taste, just FWIW.

another note...it takes a few days for a baby to get use to formula. dont go changing it just after one day.
I had a reflux baby (first one) OMG the projectiles that kid did :sick:...I ended up oin Heinz and it helped a bit.

You could also try getting a slower flowing teat that will allow him not to get as much air in and by the sounds of the fussing he doesnt like the teat. I found tommee tippee bottles (the new ones shaped like a nipple) were fantastic

:comfort: your doing a wonderful job

There was also a member on BB from country vic whos bub was continually vomiting all feed and it was something entirely different that was physically stopping her bub being able to keep milk down. I cant rememeber who it was though, but she went to RCH about it.

Mayb me Pandora? I took DD to RCH. She was a huge chucker (90% of the bottle everytime and went through about 50 bibs a day). We took her to the RCH when she was about 5 months old as i was just over it all. Found out the tube in the throat area(i cant for the life of me remember the name of it) wasnt closing off at all, so it was like a 2 way.. it could go down but then straight back up again. Usually there is a flap that closes over in most people that stops the food from coming back up. We went through every formula known to man and none of them made a difference. It finally started to improve about 7 months old (seems like for ever away i know.. ) but remember, its only bad coz you are living in that right now. She was put on Losec for reflux.. but she threw it up aswell.

Its not good for them to change formula so much so quickly. Try and give it 1-2 weeks minimum on the same formula to change it agaain. I ended up settling on S26 GOLD, which she was on until 2 weeks ago (17 months).

Thanks all!

The Paed doesn't think there's anything really wrong with him -- and I do tend to agree in that he doesn't seem in pain during the vomitting, although there is a lot of it and it can be an hour after the feed ....
He is grunting and groaning a lot -- mostly wind -- again can be after an hour as well.
He is gaining weight well etc.

I have Avent bottles, tried their number 1 teats, Pidgeon number 1s and now I am on Happy Baby Y. the number 1 teats just seemed to constantly drizzle in his mouth ... that is why I changed. Do you think I should try to go back to them?

I kinda feed to schedule in that it is about 3 hourly. However, if he's really hungry, I don't hold off the bottle. There are times where he only takes half or less and sometimes the whole thing. The MCHN said that this was fine though ...

That is really interesting that the acids work after 12 hours ... DS does fuss at the bottle -- maybe doesn't like the taste?

Now that it is 9am, I will try calling the MCHN about it also.

Ooh yep MM it was you :)

try offering him small amounts every hour instead of a full bottle every 3 hours.

Sometimes.. AR formula's can help spewy babies because its thicker so it stays down better (well its meant to).

Try and feed him upright, not laying down but more sitting up IYKWIM


Just remember, he is still very very young and his little digestive system is still new. Good luck :hug:

Yes, I will try that -- offering more often -- and see if that works. Also I have some Infant's Friend that I will put in.

I do keep him elevated, and have the cot on an angle too. It is such a horrible thing to watch him grunting etc!

I told all this to the MCHN and she really wants me to continue on this Karicare low lactose for the next 24 hours at least.

I hope you can sort this out - it doesn't sound like much fun at all.
My DS was BF but chucked after most feeds and also had a few hours a day of being very very sad and windy. The wind improved a lot at around 3-4 months. In the meantime we learnt to focus on "deflating" him rather than comforting him - putting him on his tummy on our chest, using a warm bath, rubbing his tummy, wriggling his legs all helped a bit.
We also found that going outside where things were different seemed to distract him and make it easier to fart.

Also - if your circumstances change, keep in mind that relactating may be possible. Let us know if you get to that point - there are a couple of excellent examples here!

Oh I am so sure that this will get better after 3-4 months -- just soo heartbreaking in the meanwhile.

During the day, I can easily do things such as wandering outside, putting him on tummy etc to help the wind ... it is really the 4am-630am period that kills me. He is constantly grunting and straining and it is SO hard to settle him.

Also another thing I noticed is that with this formula, his spew is curd-like. Does that sound normal?

Kmn -- I really wish that I would be able to BF. I have extensively researched the drugs that I have been put on and there is no way. I am on them for too long (possibly forever) and even if not, the risks to the baby are very great with these drugs. I desperately spent a week expressing and throwing away every 2 hours while I looked at all possibilities, including future re-lactating. It is not meant to be with this one. It has been quite traumatic and heartbreaking, but I a grateful I am alive to have these concerns.

I think that you probably need to resign yourself to getting him up at 4am and helping him with the wind rather than settling for the next little while. We found that we could settle a windy bub, but then 20 minutes later he would be awake and sad again.....
I'm glad you're alive too!
hugs
Kate