painful b/fing beyong 6wks

Hi,

I am b/feeding my second child (DS) who is just over 6 weeks old. I have had prior b/feeding sucess with my DD whom I b/fed for 2 years - but b/feeding my DS has become a nightmare - if I didn't have such an abundant supply I would have given up by now! I have been given so much conflicting advice - I don't know what to do!

Here's what has happened - my DS feeds well on my left breast - sometimes he mangles it if I'm not careful with attachnment but generally, this breast is A-OK - My right breast is unco-operative (or he is unco-operative with my right breast). It seems to be an attachment issue - I can easily express 150mls from this breast with my electric pump and it is totally pain-free. I have tried various positions - all of them - you name it I've tried it!I try to feed him on the right breast- I have 3-4 attempts before my nipple is mangled by his pirahna jaw - then I feed on the left side and express the right side.

I have been told it might be nipple thrush - this was wrong bse there was no white stuff in DS's mouth or on my breast and it didn't hurt to exress milk - only when he attached - nonetheless I tried daktarin for 3 days anyway before my GP said to stop wasting my time - it was not thrush (the fact I could express painfree was testament to this)

OK next I was told he has a "receding chin" - well duh - if he didn't have one how could he get on the breast and breathe? "Work on attachment"

Next I was told he had "tongue tie" - various healthcare professionals have looked at him and some say "yes" mild tongue tie others say no, not at all. The fact that he can stick his tongue out when I gently touch his bottom lip and the fact he can latch well onto my left breast tells me it's not tongue tie.

Now the last thing I was told was that his jaw is slightly lop-sided and he is a little asymetrical in that he loves turning to his right side and has even got a flat spot on the right side of his head which I am trying to correct. Now I'm told this is why he can't get onto the right breast properly - I was to try the football hold again!

OK, my question is - what is going on? Why can't I breast feed from my right breast? why does it still hurt after the "magic" 6 week mark? What can I do to fix this?

Congratulations on getting to 6 weeks, it sounds like you have been having a very difficult time of it.

I know you said you have tried every position on the right side, but has this included rugby ball hold, where he comes to the right breast from your right, so he is lying in the same position as if he was feeding from the left? I know some mammas who have managed to "trick" their baby into accepting the opposite side this way.

My other suggestion is that, for whatever reason, your milk may be coming in faster on the right side, so try reclining as you feed and he may be happier to accept it.

Hopefully someone will be along with better advice from me, but I just wanted to offer whatever help I could plus my congratulations on sticking with it\

T
xx

sorry I have just re-read and I see you have tried the football hold already

Maybe your right side needs to be "broken in" a bit more slowly - can you express every second feed from the right side for a few days and then every third and so on - rather than doing a few in a row and ending up sore.
Are the feeds where he starts on the right noticably sorer than the ones where it's his second side (if they are then always give him the left first - and take him off after a couple of minutes if the feed "should" have started on the right)?
Is he noticeably wriggler or less cooperative on the right? Does it point in a different direction to the left??
And finally - have you tried baby led attachment, where you lean back, pop him in the general vicinity of a boob and let him attach himself??

Thank you for your advice and encouragement!

I like the suggestion of slowly offering the sore breast and building up - I currently aim to feed twice a day football hold on the sore side but it is a struggle and sometimes it hurts too much and I have to take him off and give him the "good" breast (and express the sore one) as he just doesn't latch on painlessly- I usually try this at the mid morning and afternoon feed when I am relaxed and sometimes I can feed well this way but when I try it again to make it three feeds - it's over - it gets so sore I have to have him off the sore side for 24hrs.

I think my nipples do point outwards a bit and I think u are right about trying to "trick" him into feeding off the right hand side using the football hold (again, this way is not painfree for me yet) . I am worried as I am imagining myself being out and about and struggling to b/feed in public bse he will only latch on properly with the football hold I can't do this without props - pillow etc. Will I ever be able to feed him "madonna" style if he learns "football" style?

As I said the frustration is that sometimes I can get him onto the breast (like this morning he fed well "madonna style" without hurting me - a miraculous fluke as I was in a shopping centre parents room!), but mostly it doesn't happen. I am desperately hoping this will settle down in a few more weeks (months?). I feel like an idiot not being able to get him to latch on after all this time and afterall, it is my second time round :doh:

PS I tried baby-led attachment - it was hit n miss, he got on beautifully one day - but chomp-arama the next!:wall:

When he's a bit bigger you will be able to use a football hold without props - you'll just need a seat beside you (like a couch or a bench seat or whatever). Put his legs on the seat and lean yourself as far forward as you can and it kind of works. But you do need the props for little floppy bubs!

I think that you should be taking hope from the fact that he sometimes gets it right, rather than frustration!

Great advice from the other ladies :)
The only thing I can offer is to this -

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Will I ever be able to feed him "madonna" style if he learns "football" style?

As I said the frustration is that sometimes I can get him onto the breast (like this morning he fed well "madonna style" without hurting me - a miraculous fluke as I was in a shopping centre parents room!), but mostly it doesn't happen. I am desperately hoping this will settle down in a few more weeks (months?). I feel like an idiot not being able to get him to latch on after all this time and afterall, it is my second time round :doh:

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My DS2 fed mostly football style for the first couple of months and as he got older we were able to feed in other positions (mostly madonna style) much more easily.
So I agree with KMN, I would take heart - if he's getting it right some of the time, it's a good starting point ;)
Best of luck with it all.

ETA - I just wanted to add, re your comment

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I feel like an idiot not being able to get him to latch on after all this time and afterall, it is my second time round :doh:

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I am fulltime expressing now for a baby who couldn't (& then wouldn't ) latch - my 4th, so you'd think I'd have it down, right? Nope ;) And every LC I saw said it was her, not me.
Every baby brings us a different experience - so take it a bit easier on yourself :hug:

Hi,

It can be very frustrating when you have fed so long and so well with your first, but things just don't come together with your second baby, and breastfeeding is so painful and such a struggle.
Who have you seen so far with your baby? Have you seen a lactation consultant?
Many times these problems when the mum is an experienced breastfeeder, are multifactorial. It's not so much that the information is contradictory, but that the problem is complex and there is more than one thing going on.
An LC would look at whether it's a problem with you - are your nipples infected, for instance, or with the baby - tongue tie, shape of the palate etc, or probably by now both, and set up a plan to get you through this.
Feel welcome to tell us a bit more - how did the birth go? Full term? Early feeding? Jaundice? weightgains etc

Thank you for all your replies - so encouraging!

Barb,

Thankyou for your reply! I had this baby via elective caesarean - my second caesar. He was full term - 39weeks. It went smoothly, he weighed 3.4kgs, healthy, slight jaundice but didn't need treatment - (it went away by week 3) - I had heaps of colostrum, but I had trouble getting him to latch initially - colostum was hand expressed and fed to him in a syringe, then my milk came in on day 3 - lots and lots of milk - had to hand express first before getting him onto breast.

Always struggled with the right breast - the LC at the hospital was the only one who could latch him on painlessly - this was done on two occasions (football hold). When I got home, the problem with right breast continued as well as the fact that my milk seemed to have a sedative effect on him and it would take ages to feed him coz he kept falling asleep (maybe it was the jaundice?). The pattern that followed was this- I would feed left side - no worries, I would attempt the right side - often after several painful attempts - I would give up and express - then I couldn't try again for 24-48hrs coz my nipple was so sore. Sometimes, I would manage to get him on and he would feed, but never more than 2-3 feeds a day - sometimes only once.

He has excellent weight gains - 300-350gms a week.

It is so frustrating coz I don't know why this is happening - I do notice that it is the bottom of his mouth that is hurting me (regardless of whether he is on madonna or football style) and only on the right breast- so maybe it is a lop-sidedness that is the problem - if so, will he grow of it?

Another thing I noticed is that after a "successful" feed on the right side - there seems to be a ridge or a depression around the areola at the base of the nipple ( so it looks like a little "moat" is surrounding the nipple).

I am using the pigeon (standard neck) peristaltic teat for giving him EBM - I was initially using the wideneck peristaltic teat but the nurse at the clinic said it was too wide and would encourage "front" sucking rather than the deep sucking of b/feeding (maybe this was compounding the problem?). I have been using the standard neck perstaltic teat now for 2 weeks and it may be a co-incidence but have been able to get him on the sore side more often.

If you think I should concult a LC, where would I find a good one? Are there any available through the public hospital? I've been given so much conflicting advice, I just need a solution, I can't believe it is so hard to do something so "natural".

What a stressful few weeks it has been for you :hug: I agree with Barb that these issues are usually complex, and seeing someone very experienced is a very big help. Some of the things you have mentioned - not being able to latch on at all at first, and the ridge on your areola - suggest there could be some sort of issue such as a tongue-tie. Some tongue-ties are very hard to spot, but an experienced LC should know what to look for. A good LC will also be able to work out if there are any other issues.

You possibly could find an LC through your public hossy, but it can be hit and miss getting a good one. The ones listed here - Australian Lactation Consultants Association Ltd - ALCA - New South Wales - are highly qualifed so if there one near you in this list, that would be a good place to start. These LCs do charge, but mums usually find it well worth the cost. If you don't have any luck with that list, PM myself or Barb with your suburb and we'll have a look for you.

All the best with finding the right answers hun. You are doing so well, I know that you will get through this :hug:

Thank you for your words of encouragement! I looked up the lactation consultants via your link - I also rang my health fund and they thankfully offer rebates. I will be definately making an appointment to see a LC from that list - I just hope that this is a resolvable issue.

PS I have had 4 painfree b/feeds on the right breast (football hold) in the last 48hrs but am very cautious still... it is a plus though- maybe things will look up!:pray:

Great news all round Lilli :)

Keeping everything crossed for you that it continues to improve.