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Sounds like me as a child! I coul never be bothered with the whole emotion thing and if one of my mum's friends' children went and read a book when I visited then GOOD - I would have LOVED it because it would mean I wouldn't have to bother with them. Or could borrow a book, I would enjoy that too.
I just had it rammed into me this is how you speak, this is what you say, this is how to treat someone, this is acceptable, this isn't, this means that, that means this, react like this - NEVER be yourself.
Life sucks. TBH, your daughter will realise that she's harsh when her friends don't want to play. And chances are, unless YOU bully her about it, she won't mind. When she's older then she'll want friends and teach herself to curb her tongue. I can "get on" with most people - and have possibly 0 "friends". Sure I like people and they most likely like me too, but I am sat at home all alone tonight, put on my pyjamas at 7pm and am watching Tarzan. I could have invited someone round, thought about it - and didn't. I am loving it. I am loving not living with a mother who keeps telling me how great and sociable my little sister is and how I should be more like her.
I do not for one moment want you to take this as a criticism, as I'm sure you don't tell your eldest child that her little sister is better than she is. But it is something to bear in mind. Some people don't care about being sociable and forcing it upon them is pretty cruel. You figure out the social rules at some point. It is harder for some people. I still find myself having to think "that person made a joke, I should smile now." Not that I don't find it amusing, it just takes a lot to get a laugh from me. I see someone cry and sometimes I have to force myself to ask if they're OK - I can't be bothered, but it's the done thing.
I did worry about DS, as DH is as bad as I am about socialising. So we look at pictures of people his age and ask what he thinks they are doing, do they like the toy, why does he think that, what would be nice for them... that sort of thing. He's pretty good about it.
FWIW, I treated reading emotions in other people as a project, as a secret to be fathomed out. Then it was fun! And happened easily. Maybe your DD would like to see if she could find the secret signs that show how people feel?
HTH.
It does sound to me like you're dealing with a parenting dilemma that is a little "out of the box". Hopefully your pead will give you some help with an assessment and be able to refer you to more assistance/advice.
In my understanding, children with aspergers/autism learn to identify emotions from a learned, cognitive point of view, as opposed to the "standard" intuitive learning around emotions. There are book suggestions online for teaching children to identify emotions, but I'm not sure what is relevent to a 9 year old sorry. There are lots of 'online emotions games' if you do a search.
it can eb doen but is very difficulkt.
we are going through a similar thing now with DS. he just has no concept of hwo his actions hurt or make other people feel.
his answer is "i dont know" or a shoulder shrug.
we are fed up with it.
we ahev tried removing all privilages.
his biggest issue is he cant share. literally cant share anything, gets a bag of chips, and doesn't even think to ask or get one for his sister, but if she gets anything could even be a stick she getc one for DS as well
im begining to think its teh age, its teh begining of hormones, adn them becoming more independant and self sufficent and they are now the big kids at school so have more responsibility there.
but we are fed up to the max, and i can empathise with you about it
to be honest there is a good programme i did as an adult with Dot yam a lady from sydney adn she works with managers on hwo to be empathetic employers and empathetically empiowering a situation. as with nursing empathy si a huge part of it.
good luck and will eb keeping an eye on thsi for some advice as well
There is brain research that shows that teens lose the ability to feel empathy and identify emotions for a few years. I didn't bring it up as I thought 9 was still young, but maybe there is something in it.
I work with kids on the autism spectrum and from what you've described I think you're spot on that there's 'elements' of aspergers in there. Sensory issues (under-sensetivity to physical pain), difficulty reading faces and understanding other's emotions and differing response to her own and other's emotions all fit the bill - although like you said, there may not be enough of the other autistic traits there for a full diagnosis. I hope you don't feel that's insensitive.... I realise having a child that's anywhere on the spectrum can be fraught with heartache and some random internet chickie throwing in her diagnostic 2c might be a bit confronting or inappropriate. But I get the sense that you already know that it's there.
Kids on the spectrum can be taught empathy in a sense, but don't tend to take it on as an intuitive skill. It's more that you can teach the 'rules' for how we respond appropriately and how to best get on in the social world. Your trouble seems to be at this stage, she's not that motivated to change her ways. I guess if you can present this to her that behaving in these ways will help her to get what she wants (rather than what we want which is for people to like her, to feel heard and understood etc.) then she might be inclined to start taking on some of these lessons. I'm sure as she matures and becomes more aware of the social world, she'll be more motivated to learn and apply social rules in order to fit in and be included.
I've gotta dash now... small person trashing the study... but if you want some specific examples of what we do with ASD kids, or just want to chat more, PM me and I'll get back to when I can.
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I don't think I've been here long enough to be allowed to PM or I would lol ... some pretty serious spam prevention in place on this forum :o:
Kawasaki - I agree with your post, but wow it took me a while to decipher it :lol:
RE - My husband has always been horrible at reading body language, vocal tones and empathising. I have known him since I was 14. Honestly I think it has been harder for me (who understood that there actually were/are awkard social pauses, he was/is just oblivious).He doesn't tend to care so much, because he doesn't notice or attributes people drawing away from him to other reaons. Having said that it is definitely not a lost cause. DH has improved dramatically in the time we have been together. I try and make an effort to explain things that I know he doesn't pick up on, and he is much better at taking the time to try and read people. He can still find it hard to empathise, unless he actually takes the time aside to try and imagine himself in a particular situation - and even then he sometimes doesn't 'get it'. I beleive that you can definitely teach social skills, which act to mimic empathy this will make life easier for her and those around her. But your DD will be only able to improve her empathy, if she has to wants to do it. Professional help is probably a very good idea, as children (in my experience) are more likely to listen and engage with someone other then their parents, and the professionals with have better tools and skills for teaching your DD.
lol sorry misty.
was a tad distracted this morning by DS and his inability to empathise with people. or do as he is asked..
whole other thread there..
but yes, it can be taught and professional help prob the best.
i also find hubby doesn't see this in DS as he is kinda like your hubby. not emotional very blase about stuff like that, can't uderstand why i get upset with DS's behaviour etc.
so im fighting the battle twice.
but i do honestly believe it has a lot to do with their age as well. when Ds was younger like 4-5 he was empathetic now he just doesn't care
Back again briefly. I've just jotted down some of the stuff we do - there's loads more but this might offer some ideas to start with. Sorry if the expression/spelling is terrible. I blame a looooong day and a scrambled brain! Feel free to ask for clarification or for ideas on more specific stuff. Hope it helps!
Teaching about emotions
1. Facial expressions, body language and voice
- Pull funny faces in the mirror. Then pull faces that portray emotion. “Look, here’s my angry face! How am I showing that I’m angry? What are my eyebrows doing? What’s my mouth doing? Are my eyes wide open… looking up or down…” Explore what each face looks like and describe each feature. “I wonder if your angry face looks the same as mine… each person looks a bit different when they show emotions. Look, your eyebrows point down the same as mine. I wonder what Dad’s angry face looks like, let’s go get him to show us.”
- Do the same with body language. Watch what your shoulders, hands, posture, head-tilt, level of eye-contact etc. does with each emotion.
- Practice different voices. Again, good to start of and intersperse with silly stuff to keep it fun.
- Play a guessing game – I’m going to act out an emotion… guess what I’m feeling”. “Now you show me one and I’ll guess”
2. Learn about what triggers emotion
- Watch movies with dramatic emotion and pause half-way through a scene. “How do you think he’s feeling? Why? How is he showing that he feels that way – what’s his face / voice / body doing. What do you think he might be thinking? What do you think he’s going to do next? Will that help him to feel better? What could he do instead?
- Label, describe and discuss the emotional experiences your child sees. “This morning when I turned the TV off, little sister got very angry. She wanted to watch more TV but I told her that it was time for school. Do you remember how she showed me she was angry? What do you think she was thinking? What could she have done instead?”
- Describe your own emotional experience as you’re having it – “I’m feeling pretty nervous right now because… “
- Use puppets to act out emotional scenarios.
- Make posters of the 4 key emotions – happy, sad, angry scared. Draw the relevant face in the middle or stick a photo of your child pulling that face. Then all around put words, drawings, cartoons, photos, magazine cut-outs etc. of things that make me feel…. You can add to this over time.
- Teach that our own thoughts cause how we feel. If something is difficult and I think “I’ll never manage this and people will laugh at me if I get it wrong”, you’ll feel very different than if you think “I’ll have a try… doesn’t matter if I don’t get it perfect, I’m just learning” etc. Fantastic resource for teaching kids about the connection between thoughts and emotion: Mind Your Mind by Julie Johansen and Leigh Hay.
3. Teach that emotions can vary in intensity.
- Make a ‘thermometer’ for each emotion and label 1 – 10 from bottom to top. For each thermometer find words that mean a little bit, medium or a large degree of that emotion (eg. irritated, angry, furious) and put them against 1, 5 and 10. If you can think of other words, see where they might fit. Talk about how you act when you’re number 1 vs 10 and in between. Talk about and draw/write in what kinds of situations might make you feel say, a 3 as opposed to a 9.
4. Explore physical experience of emotion
- Get your child to lie on a big piece of butcher’s paper and draw around their body. Use different colours for each emotion and draw symbols / colour-in / write words on different body parts to show where emotion in felt and what it feels like. Eg. angry might feel like hot face, tight jaw, noisy head and clenched fists. Nervous might be felt in the stomach etc. etc. Check how your child experiences emotion as it’s bound to be at least slightly different from where/how you feel it.
- Get in touch with the physical experience of emotions as they happen. This is quite tough to do if your child is very angry or scared – better to talk through your own experience with these emotions. But great to do with more positive stuff or when a negative emotion is not too ‘full-on’. Eg “Wow, you’re really excited about going to the movies. I can see you’re skipping around all over the place. How does it feel in your body to be this excited…”
Oh, and I should add... I tend to agree with what others have said. Sometimes kids are more likely to take on info from someone other than their parents - not sure if she's like this? A good kids CBT therapist would do the above kind of stuff with your daughter if you needed outside help.