Desperate for help - toddler screams even when cuddled to sleep

I really hope I can get some advice because I'm losing it a bit tonight. I'm sorry if this is a bit long.

DS is just about two. Sleeps in family bed. Am trying so hard to do no-cry sleeping, but it is impossible and I have no idea what to do with him. Used to b/f to sleep, but weaned at 17 months. Since then have cuddled to sleep, which worked well to begin with but it's taking longer and longer, and involving more and more crying. Everyone in the family is being traumatised by it.

I cuddle him off to sleep for his day nap and at night. He fights sleep, and there is usually a period of hysterical crying before he goes to sleep. He won't wind down, he is stimulated by anything. Stories are stimulating. Quiet time in the bedroom turns into jumping on the bed.

I feel completely hopeless, if he screams while I'm cuddling him to sleep, what else can I do? It's been two and a half hours tonight, I gave up when I got too frustrated and angry and sent DH in. I can hear DS talking to him in the bedroom. It got to the point where I was shouting at him to lie still and stop kicking - not exactly gentle, and I feel like we may as well be doing controlled crying if it's going to be like this. I feel like a total failure.

We have put a schedule in place to try to help things, I don't let him sleep past 2 pm for his nap. We have dinner at 5.30, then bath then quiet play, bottle and bed at 7.30. The routine doesn't seem to be helping him recognise it's time for bed. It takes at least an hour to get him to go to sleep.

DH and I get no time together, and it's affecting our relationship. We *need* to have some evenings together.

I've tried keeping him awake all day, but he's exhausted and miserable by the late afternoon. Then he gets a second wind and doesn't go to bed early anyway. I try to make sure he gets some exercise during the day to tire him out a bit, but he's like the energiser bunny.

He wants me to sing songs to him to go to sleep, but he gets sick of them so quickly that I've run out of songs I know. Every song I suggest he says 'no' to. We have started putting on a story CD at low volume, but he doesn't really want to listen to that either. So I say 'no, it's sleepy time now' and then the crying starts.

What is wrong with him? Why won't he go to sleep? Is this in any way normal? It is making me feel so hopeless and like a totally cr*p mother. We have another baby arriving in 3.5 months - what on earth are we going to do if he still won't go to sleep then? I am exhausted by it and have started to utterly dread sleep times.

Is there anyone else who experiences this at bedtime? What else can we possibly do? I am all out of ideas.

Thanks so very much in advance to anyone who takes the time to read and reply.

HB
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This article and the replies might be helpful?
http://www.askmoxie.org/2011/01/tension-decreasers.html

I hope you find something that works soon
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HB that sounds really frustrating. My DD is a sleep fighter as well. She will be so tired she can bearly keep her eyes open but she will tell me shes not tired and try and stay awake. Asks for stories, tickles, any tactic to keep me talking or engaging with her.

IMO gentle parenting doesn't necessecarily mean no crying ever. As they get older they are going to cry when they don't get their own way. Can't always give in to what they want. You know he is tired and know he needs to go to sleep. With my DD sometimes I have to leave her alone as my presence is stimulating for her. She is a bit older though and understands the "I will be back in 3 minutes to check on you". Generally when I go back to her she is asleep.

I hope you find something that helps.

I have no advice either. Your son sounds just like my DD, if she doesn't feed to sleep then it can be a real battle. I just put her down with her bedtime toy, lie next to her and pretend to go to sleep myself. I concentrate on relaxing myself because getting agitated just makes DD worse. She crawls and climbs around, but everynow and again she will lie down. Sometimes its for just a second or two, but gradually she'll lie for longer and longer. Then when she finally stays down she'll often whimper before going to sleep.

One thing I have been told is to avoid protein within 2 hours of bedtime and give carbohydrates (eg banana) instead. I have noticed a difference in DD since I started trying to give her main meal at lunchtime and then just a sandwich or something for dinner.

Good luck hun.

PollyA - Thanks for the interesting article. I'm a ranter and have had many a tension headache go away after a good cry. It seems DD may have inherited that from me :(

Thanks so much for your replies everyone. We eventually had to give up last night and let DS get up again. He jumped up ready to play, and finally fell asleep from sheer exhaustion on the couch with me at about 12.30am! It was a really weird night. But now DH is insisting that he's going to have to go in his own room to sleep, I don't know if I want to do that. It's a pretty harsh transition from in bed with mummy to a bed in a room down the hall.

PollyA - thanks for that link. Some aspects of it ring true for me, especially the bit about him finding the awake to sleep transition very difficult, and the crying releases this tension. I can't imagine that leaving him to cry for a bit would work, but at this stage I am prepared to give anything a shot. Sometimes when it's taking a very long time I'll turn over and face away from him. He usually cuddles up to me asking for hugs, so not sure that he doesn't want to be comforted to sleep, more that he really doesn't know how to wind down and give into sleep. Unfortunately I think I am a tension decreaser, I get so frustrated that it all builds up and then I release it by getting angry at him, and then feel so guilty.

Fig - thanks for your comments. I feel your frustration!! I generally ignore tantrums and let him cry, with some muted words of sympathy about how he must be finding it frustrating. I do think he finds my presence stimulating at sleep time as well. He comes up with anything he can to get me to tell more stories or sing more songs, and he's started making things up, like telling me he needs his nappy changed - it's clearly a trick to get me to go out of the room. Kind of impressed that he can do this!

HannahD - thanks hun. The only way to get DS to sleep until he was 17 months was to b/f to sleep. Or drive him around in the car for hours. I tried other things occasionally, but really there was no point. It's a good point you make about working on your own relaxation, I am sure that the nights are worse when I plan to get up again after putting him down. I think he can sense that I'm not relaxed. Unfortunately if I let myself relax, I fall asleep too!

We'd really just put up with this situation if we weren't having another baby, we'd let DS stay up until all hours until he's so tired he falls asleep easily. But DH and I are really stressed about how we will get DS to sleep when the baby arrives. He won't let DH put him to sleep, has to be me. We are so worried that we're setting DS up for a horrible introduction to his younger brother or sister because he'll associate the baby with a sudden negagtive change - if he is still taking over an hour to go to sleep, then I most likely won't be able to do it. I really don't want him to feel that mummy has deserted him for the new baby.

I asked him yesterday if he would like to have his own big boy bed, in our room still, and said he could come into mummy's bed whenever he needs to. He seemed very keen on it, but this still wouldn't address the whole going-to-sleep problem.

HB
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HoneyBee- my DD is 20 months and really seems to be overwhelmed easily. Have you tried giving a dose of Brauer's Calm before bed? I have found the nights I give it to DD she is asleep in 20 mins compared to up to an hour. I also make sure the tele is off and only lights we really need to see are on. we put lamps on rather then overhead lights. I really hop that helps. It's frustrating when you don't get time with your partner.

GL xx

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HannahD - thanks hun. The only way to get DS to sleep until he was 17 months was to b/f to sleep. Or drive him around in the car for hours. I tried other things occasionally, but really there was no point. It's a good point you make about working on your own relaxation, I am sure that the nights are worse when I plan to get up again after putting him down. I think he can sense that I'm not relaxed. Unfortunately if I let myself relax, I fall asleep too!

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I often fall asleep too. When I wake up I find DD sound asleep too. I think me falling asleep is the best way to let DD know that it's safe. Our nights are also worse if I want DD to sleep so I can get some things done. You are baking another bub afterall, if you fall asleep, your body must need the rest. What is DS like if you refuse to sing or read any more? I try to be as boring as I can and I think DD is slowly learning. It might not work right away, but your boy sounds clever so I'm sure he'll soon get the message.

Yeah, I wondered whether you might be a bit too interesting as well :)
Would you be comfortable with ignoring him or refusing him if he wanted more cuddles/stories/songs after the planned x-minute bedtime routine was over?
What I was thinking was, perhaps you have 2 stories, then a song then it is time to lie very quiet and very still. (This is what I tell Natty when she tells me she doesn't like to sleep. "Just lie still, and very quietly then.") Initially of course he would probably struggle with it, might cry, might try to distract you etc. But if you are consistent and respond with, "time to lie still and quietly" or some such calm response and demonstrate it yourself, he may get bored of it and wind down that way?
Other thing that might work is to have you and your DH lie with him. You and DH get some quiet, close time (even though your DS is there) and you both demonstrate how to relax. Then, if you fall asleep, you'll have DH to wake you up once DS is asleep, or he may even fall asleep with you which is kinda lovely too ;)
Natty has never 'allowed' DH to put her to bed either. I was worried about it before Phoebe came along but TBH it worked out fine. DH would have quiet cuddles with P while I put N to bed, then I would feed P to sleep a little later. P fed to sleep until she was about 13mo, but now quite happily lets DH put her to bed. It can still work out, so try not to panic :)

Big :hug: hope some of these suggestions work. We are off to tresillian next week to get our kids sorted.

Our little sleep fighting screamypants still had nights screaming when she was over 2.5. Now she's 3 we haven't had any for a while but she's just One Of Those Children. I would have gone insane if I had the two younger ones in the other order.

Crazy Lady - thanks for the suggestions. We don't have the TV on at night, but could definitely turn the lights down lower - that's a great idea. Have had other people recommend the Brauers, will have a look for it.

HannahD- that's really interesting that your DD doesn't go to sleep as well when you want to get up and do things. They're pretty clever, aren't they? When I tell him no more songs or stories, that's when he loses it - I think because he knows it's really, really sleep time then. I talked to him at nap time today about how he's a big boy now, and he can have one song and then it's sleepytime. He seems to respond quite well to being told he's a big boy, so I might use that one a bit more.

Snacks - I like your idea of telling him it's two songs or stories, and then time to lie still. He will definitely protest, but if he knows how many he's getting in advance it might help him to accept it. Thanks for the reassurance that it can work out with a sleep-resisting toddler and a new baby. I guess we will get through it :)

Sunshine - thanks! Good luck with getting your sleep issues sorted out too.

RumpledElf - that is actually very reassuring to know that the screaming has passed for your DD. I have to remind myself that this will all pass, and one day he will put himself to sleep without crying.

It's past bedtime now, and we've been at the playground with friends for over two hours, so hopefully DS will be so exhausted that sleep will come a little more easily tonight.

Thank you all for taking the time to read and respond. It's so nice to get some suggestions and reassurance.

HB
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You're doing a great job hun. Can you push back his bedtime? Dd won't fall asleep before 8:30, basically six hours after she wakes from her nap. So sometimes it's even nine or nine thirty. I don't mind too much because she sleeps two plus hours in the day, and I always rest or nap too. At two she is getting about twelve hours in twenty four of sleep...split ten hours or so at night and two in the day.

When dd rolls around or protests at bedtime too much, I tell her it's bedtime and mummy will leave if she doesn't lie still. This usually works, but I have had to follow through on occasion so she gets the message that I'm not mucking about.

I currently feed dd until drowsy then lie with her. She only lets dh do it if I'm not home...and then he often has to put her down later.

Try not to stress about the new baby. I'm due in march and am expecting chaos, but it'll all work out.

I hope things went ok last night after the tiring day.
Hope you find your groove again soon. :)

Arcadia - thanks hun. I think perhaps your idea about pushing back bedtime is a good one. He might just not be ready to go to bed when I'm trying to do it. I have been trying to get him to bed 5 or so hours after a nap, but might give closer to 6 a go and see if he's more ready for it.

Thanks Snacks! Things are going better today. DS was so exhausted last night that bedtime was easy, plus we didn't get him to bed until 8.45. Today's nap was good too. I told him we would have one story, then he needed to be a big boy and go to sleep after that. It took 20mins from the end of the story until he fell asleep, and he didn't cry at all! I am really happy. Naptime was a bit later than usual, maybe 45 mins later, so perhaps that helped too.

Thanks so much for all your help everyone, it's great to have people to go to who don't just tell me to shut him in his room and let him cry.

HB
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:grouphug: you're welcome. Hope some of the ideas work for you.

Hi Honeybee. Just wondering how you're getting on?

Hi Tuesday's Child - thanks for checking in on me! It's up and down really, but overall I think it's improving slightly. Have had a few bedtimes with no tears. DS is sick at the moment, so there's been a bit more crying at bedtime, but I haven't been rushing him off to bed. I am a lot calmer now, even when he's upset and I think that helps him - instead of me getting upset which then just ramps up the level of emotion. Will just keep on trying, and am hopeful that things will continue to improve gradually.

Thanks for thinking of me!

HB
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