Terrible 2s

My almost 3 dd seems to have gotten a slow start on the terrible 2's and it's starting to get on top of me.

1. ***- she won't stop saying for f sake. She only does it if she is frustrated and we explained alternative words and it was a bad word. Still catch her saying it!

2. Jumping on furniture and climbing on drawers...... This has resulted in a big hole in the wall where she has twice now pulled her net down with all her stuffed toys. We ask her again and again to ask us for help, she can have what she wants but needs to ask. I'm at the point where I'm considering taking her bed away and making her sleep on the floor.

3. Tantrums...... Do I need to explain? So embarrassing and I handle them by leaving her, even if we are out. I'll walk a metre or 2 away and wait. Embarrassing yes very but worse the way I handle it doesn't seem acceptable to dh. He thinks I'm letting her get away with it. It's causing friction between us.

4. Talking back. She is yelling back at us and even hitting. Getting angry at her means she then gets angrier and generally turns into a tantrum.

5. Generally not listening. Touching EVERYTHING in the shops, won't clean up toys, walking away from us when out, won't stay seated when eating etc etc. If we ask her not to do something and explain why she still goes and does it.

She has to do everything her way. Every morning I get a tantrum about doing her hair. Last week she didn't want to stay at dance class so I went to go home she screamed and wanted to stay. This happened 3 times before I had enough and took her home. It took 20 minutes to get her into the car..... Screaming kicking dry retching because she wanted to stay at dance.

I dont know how much more I can take!!!! Help. I'm worried I'm letting her grow up getting away with things and that no matter what I try it will never change. What if she is 6 7 or 8 and is seriously still like this???

So many of those examples are my son all OVER!!!!!

The *** was completely and 100% my own fault. He would frustrate me to no end at bed time, and i said it, and now he says it.. like your DD, sadly appropriatley!! We have tried to stop it by encouraging "Oh dear" instead and offering more attention when he says that instead!!

I dont know what to suggest, my ds isnt responding to anything calm and gentle or not so calm and gentle, just wanted to let you know your not the only one!!!

A bit of a side track...... I had to laugh when I looked at my review topics for psych at uni!!! My chosen topic........ Is punishment effective in behavior modification in children!!!

Started researching tonight for it. Found a paper on changing tantrum behavior in public by using audio method....... I haven't read it yet but it made me think..... Maybe next time she does have a tantrum I'll video it, maybe show it to her. If I can get dh on it too maybe she can see later how upset everyone gets.

Anything is worth a try?!?

I dont think its terrible twos... I just think shes entering the trying threes! Dd1 was very similar to this at the same age and it went on till about 3.5! Now at almost 4 shes entering an even more exciting stage called.... let me think... so many names! Oh shes is delightful at the best of times! All we get now is No or you do it... got to lurve the attitude! But getting back to you dd, you havent tainted her for life, unfortunately its just one of those stages. To get her to stop saying for fs sake (which is what mine said too) we had to really cut out our language and swap it for something. Let her know its a naughty word and that you shouldnt use it. When we slipped up we, if she heard, would say that it was a naughty word and would suffer a consequence. Slowly she got it. Youre also doing the right thing to encourage her to use other words to describe her frustration/anger.... Such a trying time. All the best, it does get better for a while......:)

Big hugs, i'm having issues with my ds (27 months) right now and ican totally empathise with you :hug:

:hug:

With the tantrums, I think its important to remember she is trying to communicate something, but is only a small child and can't actually rationalise her feelings in the same way as us. How does she react if you validate her feelings "yes, I know you don't want me doing your hair, but we can't leave the house until you have tidy hair"....and if she rages, you could say "o.k. I can hear you're angry. I am going to go get organised, so let me know when you're ready to have your hair done"...and see if she comes to you?? This works with my DD and getting dressed.

Public tantrums are so hard. Again I think validating what they're feeling is important. I also find holding DD close and speaking very softly in a low tone of voice makes her listen. We also have a "pram rule" meaning if she misbehaves she has to sit in the pram (which she doesn't like). It means I have to take a pram everywhere, but it controls the situation at least.

I really don't know...just sharing what has helped for me. :hug:

My DD is another who doesn't listen!!! I found what helps is getting down to her level, saying her name clearly and asking her to look at mummy and listen to me. I then tell her what I want to tell her and ask her if she understands. Sometimes works, sometimes not!

With the tantrums - if it is just a whinging / angry one, with no real emotional energy (ie no tears) I let her go. But if she gets to the point of tears, I do as the PP said, hold her close and speak in a low soothing voice. I read somewhere that when they are little they cannot regulate their intense emotions, so when they reach that point they actually cannot calm themselves down without some help from a loved one or grown up.

But if she is just being angry or ridiculous, I let her go.

With the climbing and destructive behavior - do you have a consequence? We use the naughty corner. So if she does something wrong, I tell her what is wrong and why and explain that she is not to do it again. The if she does, into the naughty corner.

With physical aggression though, she doesn't get a warning, she goes straight to the corner. Seems to be helping us.

Good luck... It is so hard huh!

I'd love to say talking to her works during tantrums but it doesnt, you cant get close enough withoug being hit. I try to tell her to take a deep breath and calm down. When I can finally get to her I do talk calmly and ask her if it was a nice feeling having the tantrum. Of course she says no. Then we have a talk. Still doesnt deter the tantrum behaviour in any way.

I know kids dont know how to express emotions yet. I've studied psych for 3 years so have learnt a lot about it, but it still hasnt helped being in the situation where nothing seems to work. I guess I just needed to vent.

Thanks for the advice girls, and if anything else pops up PLEASE let me know how you dealt with the situation.

I guess my biggest problem is the friction with me and dh. I try and let her dress herself - its obvious its what she wants to do and why we are arguing about it in the morning, but again dh thinks I'm letting her do as she pleases. How else will she learn and its not a big ask on her behalf to want to dress herself. Will have to start getting up a little earlier because she takes so long but again its to be expected.

Some things we are working on well, others we are not. We have a naughty corner, which she doesnt like, but still isnt deterring any behaviour. Consequence led behaviour management isnt working, because the destructiveness has led to her losing her teddies because we cant put them in her room anymore because there is no space and the hole means no more net...... still she did it again once we fixed the hole and got the teddies back in there.

Argh.

TGF Work....... LOL...... I only work pt but without it I think I would be at my absolute wits end by now. At least I can still appreciate some of the time we get together because we have some time apart : )

:hug:

I think the issues with your dh questioning your parenting might need more exploration. Kids can tell when you're not united and will often play you against each other. Have you both had a discussion about how you would like to handle your dd's behavior?

:hug: it's so hard but even harder if you're parenting without support.

I hope you find a solution soon

It's a trying time...they will all push the boundaries, which is perfectly normal behaviour - they have to figure out what they can and can't get away with and go from there. The key, I have found, is to be consistent. Sounds like a cliche cop out, but it's really not - find age-appropriate punishments that she understands and that are effective - whether it's taking toys away, no treats, no DVD's etc - and add in age-appropriate rewards for good behaviour as well. Special trips to the park (a different one to usual or something) or a new hairclip next time you're at the shops - whatever you know is going to grab her attention that isn't necessarily costing you money, but has incentive for her. Whatever you choose to do on both sides of the coin, though, you have to be consistent - don't do it once or twice and then change or give up, KEEP doing it. Kids need and want boundaries and need discipline, but if you constantly change the line in the sand they get frustrated and the behaviour becomes worse.

Positive reinforcement and praise is huge - all day force yourself to almost be over the top and encourage her almost by reverse psych - she may not be doing what you want yet, but say 'oh mummy LOVES it when you help with this - it makes me SO happy' etc etc. Kids are eager to please, even when they're going through trying times. She should be at the age, too, where you can explain to her that when she is a good girl and does xy&z, it makes mum and dad really feel happy, but it makes you sad when she doesn't listen etc, but not during a tantrum - they can't seem to reason when they're in the middle of a little rage. As for the language - the best solution is not to swear in front of them and try to get grandparents etc to do the same, and then discourage and deal with what she's already learnt. It can take a little while to curb your language completely in front of kids, but after time it becomes second nature and it's easier than the embarassment of having them drop F-bombs in public :D

I think encouraging her to take more responsibility in dressing herself etc is a great idea - she's not too young. You will find it easier to get her to take more responsibility to clean up toys etc if you start treating her like she's a big girl and can do things for herself. While she's dressing herself, do the whole positive praise thing and say 'mummy's so proud of you for dressing yourself! What a big girl! And big girls can help with lots of other things too - like helping mummy with the washing (as an example, get her to pass you washing while you peg it - my 16 month old does this and loves the praise he gets ;) ) and helping mummy pick up the toys etc etc' Remember positive reinforcement is almost more powerful than any punishment you give, especially at this age - they WANT to please you, but there's a conflict on the inside where they also have the in-built need to test everything.

I'm sure you know a lot of this or have tried it in some way, but this is what has worked for me with my 3 so far - my 16 month old is going through this same stage now. But my older two are my proof enough to remind me every time he throws himself on the floor that if I just keep going it will work eventually - they are in primary school now and both regularly get awards for their behaviour and the teachers consider them 2 of the best behaved kids in the school, so if you're persistent it pays off! Good luck with it all! :)

Are you talking about my DD1 all of the above ticked if you find an answer please tell me. Oh and add to that she wants to be carried like a baby again

I havent read the other posts, but in my opinion the terrible 2's become the terrible 3's and then the terrible 4's!! The main difference being that they become more verbal when they throw tantrums and whinge/ pester a lot. Sorry!:hug:

I went to a seminar called "1, 2, 3 MAGIC" and it really helped me. It was run by 'Relationships AUstralia'. I recommend it highly :)

:hug:

Sounds like you are doing as best as you can ATM. Sorry if I was telling you how to suck eggs as they say!

Hang in there... xx

No one was telling me to suck eggs so to say.

I must say though - we dont really swear, she MAY have pick the swearing up from the odd occassion I have said it but actually the first time she said it she copied it exactly as my aunt said it...... anyways Im not claiming to be perfect I catch myself swearing on the odd occassion.

Ocean: I dont feel like you have said anything that screams 'suck eggs' lol, I really do appreciate the advice.

I'm actually very glad I pick the psych lit that I did.

It has really forced me to notice things I do as a parent.

The talking back can kind of be placed on my self. I raise my voice after awhile and really I shouldnt. etc etc.

Becs: DH and I had a talk yesterday about positive reinforcement, we used a lot of it with the swearing (which unfortunately hasnt worked yet) and potty training. Sometimes it works a gem, other times its a blow out.

Thanks for all the advice girls I really appreciate it. It made me think more about being more settled about this stage she is going through. When I get frustrated I'm the one that needs to go and get a breath of fresh air and remind myself she is 2... she has a lot going on and is still learning.

Still going to try the video of the tantrum though : )

Yes, yes, yes to all those points but with my DS1 - who will be 3 in 3months.

I know its just a phase and hopefully :pray: he'll come out the other side ok...but geez :o isn't it frustrating!!!

My cousin had actually warned me that after the terrible 2's comes the f'ing 3's :ROFL: (hope that doesn't offend anyone)...and by golly she is proving to be right! I'm looking forward to next year...when DS1 will still be 3 and DS2 will be 2 - can't wait for that time to pass. Because apparently after the 3's is the fabulous 4's (and going by her son...seems to be right...I think I can handle the why, why, why and everything else a 4 year old can throw at me :think: maybe :lol:)

One thing I'm finding that is helping over the tantrum is to get down on his level and talk to him (and try to stay calm myself)- though not always effective - but if I catch the issue early it works better.

Also got a similar issue with swearing - though I mainly blame my DH for that :shakehead:. I'm sure DS1 called me a B**** at today's 'extreemly overtired' state tantrum....I can't be 100% sure and don't know where he would've heard it to use it the way he did (I don't ever recall DH calling me that). I keep telling DH to try not to swear in front of him...but he still does (and I know sometimes I get a little frustrated and it slips out of my mouth too). I'm not sure how to handle it exactly either...we try to tell him its a naughty word and even when we say it and he repeats it straight away that we are naughty (like naughty mummy and naughty daddy) but he still pops out with them at the appropriate moment. I'm also trying to substitute the "***" with "for cup cakes" now too - though don't know if that really a solution :dunno:

I haven't had a chance to read all the responses...will try to pop back later (my boys have just woken) - but would also like to see what others have said and possibly use any tips suggested to you...cause we're in the same boat (and will be again with DS2 in the near future).

:hug: to us both.

Glad Im not alone, my DS just turned 3 on sunday and lately is def the f...ing 3's. he really plays up, tantrums with me but with hubby he is quiet. My step MIL and FIL were visiting us and she had a go at my parenting skills. e.g. why isnt he in bed etc.

so was like had to walk on egg shells with the MIL. glad she's gone home.

Just wanted to sympathise and offer something that helped me. I read, somewhere, that part of this behaviour is about the child looking for boundaries, because the boundaries (rules and consequences), make them feel safe- ie- they give them a structure in a world that can be confusing to them, and a world where they have no framework for their emotions. Remembering this sometimes (but certainly not all the time!) helps me when DS acts up in this way- I remind myself that he not so much being naughty as "bumping into the walls" to make sure they are there. It can also be an incentive to try to be consistent in my approach and consequences/ discipline, whatever method you choose. I will openly admit, though, that my DS's behaviour is mild in comparison to your DD, so I would never presume to tell you what is going to work!

But I also really wanted to offer sympathy- it is so, so hard when you and your partner disagree on parenting. I find it can causes a previously unheard of level of friction because you both think you are doing the right thing by your child, and you both think the other person is "hurting" (used loosely) the child and because you love them so much, that is very painful and anger inducing. You know all this, of course, and you would also know all the standard answers- communicate, get on the same page etc- but none of that makes it any easier or less hurtful, and so I feel for you. For what its worth, I think trying to allow your DD to take responsibility for tasks she can handle herself is a wonderful idea. So much of toddler's tantrums seems to be about not feeling like they have control over anything. The more choices (within reason) I can give DS, the happier he seems to be. I can see where your husband thinks its letting her have her own way, but you are still controlling the limits of her choices- eg- you let her choose what to wear within a certain range of clothes or choose her lunch out of 3 selections.

I hope things improve for you soon!