Thrashing about & intake

Hi there,

Just me again. I have a few more questions and feel really confused about what is going on for DS. Some of you may know from my other posts that I have been expressing for the last 17-18 days (since birth) and am trying to transfer to BF.

I feel really uncertain about DS behaviour and wonder if he is getting enough to drink. I'm also wondering if the nipple shields are interfering with flow but are helpful to get DS attached (it's been the only way for me to have trouble free attachment). DS often thrashes around at the nipple or attaches and within minutes throws himself off and thrashes. This happens at nearly every feed and I'm getting really frustrated.

At his last feed which was on and off for an hour he wasn't content after the feed and wouldn't settle. We then feed him some EBM by bottle and he drank about 50mls and probably would have taken more if it was on offer. If we were to just give EBM he drinks about 80-100mls. Do you think he is getting enough at his BFs?

I just can't see a light at the end of the tunnel at the moment.

If you have any advice or experience in dealing with these issues I would love to hear how you managed them.

Hi,
For a baby, breastfeeding is a very different experience than bottle feeding. When he is breastfeeding, he is in control. he has to turn to the breast, open his mouth, suck and swallow. If he doesn't suck it all stops. It can take a few moments for your milk to let down. With the bottle he has little control. If he thrashes his head around (as babes usually do at the start of the feed - the adult feeding him just follows his mouth with the bottle, plugs it in and then the milk starts to drip down his throat. he doesn't have control, so must swallow or choke. He is just on his L-plates with breastfeeding. There will be pumps in the road - but a lot of it is about gaining confidence. It's OK to use the nipple shields to help him attach successfully

I think that you need a combined strategy here for a little while for your own peace of mind. Here's a suggestion.
1) get as much in him at BFs as possible - that probably means offering him both sides with a break in the middle.
2) top up, but not all the time - pick a couple of times - before you want to go to bed and before you want him to have a big sleep would be my suggestions and give him an ebm bottle then.
3) at other times, give the boob as often as you can
4) get him weighed soon and in another week, so you have some definite idea as to whether he is getting enough milk.
5) If he is then scrap one of the topups and then in another week scrap the other.

IT doesn't seem like it to you, but you are making excellent progress!

Barb - thanks it does make sense that BF is the opposite and he is learning to adjust to the difference.

Kmn - At the advice of the LC today we have started offering top ups at his feeds. He has gained weight but not as much as the LC had expected.

As mentioned I saw the hospital LC today. I think that BF is hard work for DS as he isn't full after BF even though I have the milk there. He hadn't gained as much weight as they would have liked so I'm now offering top ups after a BF session. I would really like to jump off the express train but it seems that it will be a bit of process before this happens.

We are having a very similar BFing experience!
I'm glad I found this thread as I can use the same advice :D
My mission is to get off the nipple shield! I have our ebm feeds down to a bed time top up and sometimes a day one if we are out.
I've not been willing to have the public battle with first the shield and then his thrashing about. This is why I'd so love to get off the shield cause Id have no probs feeding in public then :)

Same here...I took DD to the osteopath late yesterday afternoon, and he explained that her body was quite tight, and he showed me how she always lay to one side when you place her down.....in the exact position she was inside me, and he thinks this is causing her to be really uncomfortable when positioned for breastfeeding.
He worked on her for an hour, and she fell asleep.....she has been 100% more relaxed during feeds. She just relaxes her whole body.
She was sooo happy afterwards. I was always a bit dubious about taking bubs to Osteos or Chiros etc, even though it has been recomended to me a zillion times with all my 3 bubs, but it was amazing to see the difference in her after just one treatment.
She is going back for one more treatment next week, and that is all he thinks she will need. best $75 I have spent!

Also, I would assume that the LC's have looked at his palate and tongue? Because of DD's tongue tie & high palate (which was snipped late today), I actually sat her up facing my breasts a few times for feeds, and she was able to latch on better.

Hi guys,

My email has been down for about a week.

WMM - have you found anything that works for you with the thrashing about? How did you get the EBM down to one or so top up feeds. I'm pretty much doing it at every feed as he only stays on the breast during a good session for about 20 minutes tops prior to throwing himself off or going to sleep.

FM - how did you find an infant osteo? that's amazing that it made such a different. We don't have tongue or palate issues each LC that I have seen have examined him.

Hi Lisa. We are actually on the booby exclusively now. But if W isn't at his birthweight this week we will need to go back to top ups. But he has gone from long sleepy breaks between feeds to feeding constantly :)
I honestly think it is his confidence, and mine. He isn't fighting as much and is a bit looser. And my moods defiantly effect his moods!
Also we just had our first public feed today!!! Yay!!! A little fiddely with the breast shied but was great... A huge achievement for us :D

Is he on each boob for 20mins? I would consider that a good feed if it was mostly sucking and swallowing. It's hard to tell with the top ups because you can't judge by their weight if they would be getting enough without them.

WMM - wow that's fantastic you've done such a great job...go team! It's an achievement to have a public feed. We did one in a parents room the other week and it felt really good. The nipple shield is a bit of a hurdle to jump in going public but I just thought the hell with it I will do it in public (semi-public). I agree it's hard to judge how much top up to provide. I'm just doing it to the point he seems content. We have a weigh in with the nurse tomorrow so we'll see then. I hope we can catch some of your luck with our BF.