HELP we are at wits end.....

We are having a shocking time with J right now. He is willfully disobedient (testing boundaries - I know!) defiant and just plain naughty.

Neither of us like smacking but lately we have literally been at wits end with what to do and I have smacked his bot a few times and so has DH and we both hate it.

I have read Toddler Tactics and 123 Magic but the strategies just don't seem to work. I try talking to him, to get him to realise that what he is doing hurts Iz (usually that is why he is in trouble) but it doesn't seem to do anything.

The behaviours right now that concern us are biting, hitting, punching, pinching his sister - usually for NO reason, sometimes in retaliation.
Saying NO to everything - a bit easier to reason with but I tend to use bribery "If you don't put your socks on now I am leaving you at home :rolleyes:

If anyone can point me in direction of any articles or just some hugs and advice that would be ace because I am tears after an incident this arvo when he bit Iz on the back - horribly. DH smacked him and I yelled right in his face while he was crying :redface:and now feel horrible about it and want some new strategies before we all go crazy.

ETA: Awww man, mods can you fix my title to HELP We are at wits end please....

First of all :hug: you are not alone

I found with clothes and dressing, instead of telling MJ to put clothes on, I would let her choose between two pairs, 'ok MJ, time for socks, are you going to wear the red or the blue' or 'right mummy and MJ need to get their socks on, I wonder who can win'... I try and do tasks at the same time too, like brush teeth, dress etc etc
If we asked her to do it, she had the option of saying no, if we change the way we asked, she didn't have that option, but still had some control (colour of socks)

Also, EVERYTHING is a game to her, so we 'race' to put straps on in the car, put shoes on, get to the bath first etc etc if I make a game out of tge task, she is much less likely to be naughty or ignore me.

The other this is that when she is craving attention she is mire likely to be terrible, taking 5 minutes out to play the game or do something with him may save you time in the long run.

I find the more tired and short I am, the worse she is... So this has been a very hard week for me too :redface:




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I know this feeling too well..... I'll bbl when not on my phone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - I wonder what the kids are up to....Better go!

DD1 was an absolute shocker at this age and I was housebound so it was a complete nightmare - a full-on meltdown over nothing pretty much hourly for six months.

So. What could work? I have no definitive answers obviously otherwise I would have found something that worked for me :).

But let's focus on bringing back a little sanity.

Firstly, lower your expectations maybe. You can't 'fix' this, certainly not overnight. It's baby steps, he's young and he's not in the listening to reason mode yet. He will get better as he gets older.

That means you have to find a middle way between indicating that you're not happy with his behaviour, not driving yourself nuts wanting instant solutions and not ignoring it either.

I'm wondering if he feels like there's a payoff for naughtiness because he gets attention. In that case, maybe more 1-1 attention throughout the day and when he bites/kicks DD1 just move him away without making a fuss and tell him no.

Try Parent Effectiveness Training. It's an 8 week course, 3 hours a week. Google it for a provider in your area. It literally changed my life.

Kelly went to one too and there's some feedback in the Parenting Methods section somewhere... I'll try to find it for you. It's in the Parenting Routines and Programs - Programs recommended by BellyBelly. If I could get the link to work I'd put it in...

Good luck.

Big hug! :hug:

Am I right in calculating your have a 2.5 year old or thereabouts? (I am a bit sleep deprived so have no faith in my maths at the moment!) My DD at that age really tested me too and I was beginning to loose faith in my gentle parenting approach thinking I was creating a monster rather than a reasonable person. We got through it but the same 'monster' appeared at 3.5 too and I found a (link removed by moderator) on the web which really helped me put things into perspective. This article and the book reference (Louise Bates Ames) helped me refocus, get back my faith and re-approach DD with calmness and love. That change, being calm rather than battling her made a huge difference and very soon my delightful girl was back. Of course it is not really as simple as it sounds, I think the development of the 'battle' between us was a slow one as she became more challenging so that I didn't realise it was our new way of relating until it was too late. Plus, I think the work I had put in in the past of talking things through, respect and clear reasonable boundaries paid off, I just had to stick to my guns where necessary and offer space in other cases.

I hope you get something out of that link as I did as it is so heartbreaking to feel so frustrated and lost with your little one. I really do believe in remaining calm, keeping the rules clear and reasonable and being consistent. I don't always find it easy to do those things but I try to remember to base all my approaches from there and keep faith.

Good luck, I am sure you will get there!

:hug: Tan.

El is doing this a bit at the moment too - not the biting but SO much hitting and throwing things either at Izzy or just near her. Its just horrible. We've tried a few things, including resorting to smacking which we now try REALLY hard to avoid after one day when DH smacked Ellie for hitting Izzy, and Ellie responded by saying "But Daddy, you're allowed to hit". From the mouths of babes huh.

With the refusing to do stuff, I definitely agree with PP with the choices. I find that if I let the girls choose what they're going to wear/play with/do (either totally free choice or from options I provide), then I don't get so many little heels being dug in. And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with bribery. We teach our children that there are consequences for bad behaviour, so I don't see a problem with them knowing that there are sometimes rewarding consequences for good behaviour.

As for nastiness towards Iz, the only thing that I'm finding works in any way is to put El in time out and spend all that time out period with Iz. It heads off any "reward" El gets of my attention, and gives her the message that if she is nasty to Iz, then I stay with Iz and not her. It obviously is also nice for Iz to get a bit of love too. Once time out is over I always make El apologise to Iz and then I leave them to it. I'm also trying to give the girls more one-on-one to try and negate their need to do something naughty to get my attention.

Good luck lovely. It is incredibly hard to deal with when one of your darling children is inflicting pain and hurt on your other darling child.

Thank you all SO much :hug: I have been doing loads of reading this arvo - I love the parenting passageway blog if anyone else is interested in reading it. Everything she posts resonates with me so well and I have calmed down knowing it is a stage and it is developmental. Was feeling like it was something I was doing that was making him act out - and generally he is the most gorgeous little boy who is happy and just wonderful to be around (I know everyone says that) so this has been hard to deal with.

jackrose - Spot on hun - he is 2yrs 9mths - that article was great - thank you and I think the key here for me is to be calm plus there a few other tips there that were super helpful. xoxox

SJ and Div - thanks for the tips lovelies xoxox

Will keep repeating the mantra of stay calm, this too will pass and having more fun and trying to have some more 1-1 time with him. Izzy is often happy to craft away for 30 mins alone so might use that time to hang with him.

Lu - thanks hun, it's ace knowing I am not alone in all this and having such lovely women to share with :hug:

Our little Jem has been having lots of temper and hitting out at her dad and I lately. We have been trying to stop it by asking her to say sorry straight away and then offering a hug and kiss. She loves hugging so much that she will often stop with that. Sometimes she is just so determined tho that nothing gets thru to her. When that happens we put her in our bathroom and close the door for about 30 seconds or so. then we open the door in a crouch position, ie eye level with her, ask for an apology and then tell her we love her and give a hug and kiss. We just found we needed something to break the cycle other than a smack cos neither of us like hurting her. We also let her have her way on things that don't matter so we arn't always in conflict with her and remember what battles are worth fighting.

Anyway, good luck. It isn't easy I know. But you arn't alone. Kids are like this and we just need to communicate a better way of relating

Thanks Bella!

Should have mentioned earlier that we use time out from 123 magic with Izzy and haven't really used it so much with J because sometimes I will ask him to stop doing something and he will just say "JJ go time out" and take himself off to the spot :rofl: So clearly doesn't really get it - it's usually when I haven't even growled and have just said something like please don't splash the paint water around!!!

I read this with interest as my DD3 is playing up so much atm. She is also 2yrs 9 months old (must be something about the age :) ) We are constantly telling her to put things down, stop biting, leave your sisters/brothers alone. Just in the last 2 days she has tipped a whole container of hundreds and thousands all over my floor and today it was a jar of sweeter :shakehead: She knows it is wrong but will do it anyway. And her favourite thing as the moment is to cut up everything with scissors. I have had to put them up in the cupboard - even the safety scissors. We do the time out and the redirection of attention but sometimes she does just get a smack from me through pure frustration. Not good I know. Nice to know I'm not the only one hitting this stage. Thanks ladies

My DD is 2 years and 4 months and EVERYTHING is a battle. Its not a case of picking your battles when EVERYTHING is conflict. I'm always threatening to leave the house without her if she doesn't get dressed or saying 'goodbye' and walking away when she wont come with me from a playground or friends house after lots and lots of preperation that we're going soon.

I laugh when people tell me to give her choices about what to wear, as if she cares what she's wearing, the fun is in NOT getting dressed in the first place. And I leave it and try to stay calm until we get to the point that I'm needing to walk out the door and she's still not dressed and so the threats and bribes kick in. And most of the time we're going to do something fun for her like Playgroup or visiting a friends or the library. I don't drag her to the shops if I can help it, she runs away, climbs out of trolleys, wont sit in her stroller, you get the picture, so I just don't take her.

I'm just so sick of it. I'm at my wits end too Tanstar, so :hug: because I know exactly what you're going through. It sucks big time and is absolutely spoiling the lead up to the birth of #2. I don't even want this baby at this point, what were we thinking having another one when this one is such a handful?! (Sorry to hijack your thread!) And its awful because my daughter is such a lovely child, just her behaviour is leaving a lot to be desired...

maybe pop into platnium and ask Janet Powell from the professional support panel :hug:

Winter - DD1 was EXACTLY like that - every single thing was a battle. Believe me, they do change. I almost fall off my seat some days when I now ask her to do things and hear "OK mummy" and "you're welcome mummy". She is really turning into excellent company and is a joy to be around a lot of the time. Between 2 and 3.5, it was a really, really hard slog and mothering felt like a chore rather than the pleasure it is now.

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Our little Jem has been having lots of temper and hitting out at her dad and I lately. We have been trying to stop it by asking her to say sorry straight away and then offering a hug and kiss. She loves hugging so much that she will often stop with that. Sometimes she is just so determined tho that nothing gets thru to her. When that happens we put her in our bathroom and close the door for about 30 seconds or so. then we open the door in a crouch position, ie eye level with her, ask for an apology and then tell her we love her and give a hug and kiss. We just found we needed something to break the cycle other than a smack cos neither of us like hurting her. We also let her have her way on things that don't matter so we arn't always in conflict with her and remember what battles are worth fighting.

Anyway, good luck. It isn't easy I know. But you arn't alone. Kids are like this and we just need to communicate a better way of relating

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I had to check to make sure it wasn't ME that wrote all of that! Lol. A lot of that is the same her with DS, except we put him into his bedroom. I also open the door crouched at eye level and ask him to say sorry. He then gets a hug and we tell him that we always love him.

Also, I totally agree with picking your battles. At this age they are really testing limits and boundaries and it's easy to get caught in a situation where you are battling them constantly unless you prioritise your battles. For example, DS wanted an apple a couple of days ago, so I got the fruit bowl down and said he could take one. Well he took two out. I asked him to put one back but the tell-tale signs of a tanty started erupting. Then I realised it's JUST an apple, lol. So I let him have both. Would you believe the little punk ate them both?! LOL!!!

:hug:... little monsters at times aren't they!!! Elijah stands his ground so well!! He's 26 months now... and just the other day we had a stand off out the front of K Mart lol... an older lady went in and came back out to find him still laying on the ground and commented about the stand off and that it was good I wasn't just giving in to him... I was just sitting on a chair nearby waiting and watching him laying face down on the ground.... once he had been there a bit I went and got him and carried him in and he was fine then. Sometimes he gets up and comes, other times once I've allowed enough time he's happy to just let me carry him to whatever it was he was previously protesting. He also does it at times about getting in the car... and like you said, you say you'll leave him behind.... I start the car lol. Ahhhh I find that what is effective changes each day! It must have something to do with them learning the signs/cues and also if they're tired/hungry/cranky etc... cos I just can't find the one thing which constantly works.

Ozzy I reckon if there was one thing that worked the we would all do it.

Mylitta- I had to laugh about the apples! Jem is soooo hungry all the time she would do that too!

I am really careful about not threatening to do things that we won't actually do like leaving them behind. In saying that I would say that if I was threatening to keep going with the shopping in the next isle over but not threatening to leave them at the shops iykwim? I say that because I clearly remember as a child thinking my mother was a moron if she didn't think I could tell when she was bluffing. I still to this day remember pushing her to the outer limits of her patience after she would tell us time and time again to do/not to do something and just before she completely blew her lid we would go off like nothing had happened and do what we were asked leaving her fuming and totally distraught. If you ask me was I a bad kid I will say no. I clearly understood exactly where my mothers boundaries were and would push them to the limits. As a mum now, I try to make sure that my boundaries are within my anger/frustration boundaries. By that I mean I try to discipline before I have let it get so out of hand that I am angry with her. I never want to be like my mum who when we misjudged her boundaries would hit us in an out of control manner. So for me we do warnings. At the moment we are getting little snatching and rude speaking to from jem so before it moves onto something I cant tolerate we are addressing it now. She gets three warnings to speak nicely to us and then very calmly we respond. If you are losing your cool move your boundaries in a bit. Be a bit more strict in policing the things that are rude or disrespectful, do it consistently and always before you are angry. Have a set number of times behavior will be allowed to be repeated before time out and then discipline in love not frustration. Good luck. Xx Bella

This thread has just relieved so much stress for me...so it's a stage? Dd has gone from the most delightful child to a tantruming raging monster. She is lashing out at dh and I and even hit ds today. Calmness is not always my forte, but I certainly notice positivity and calmness comes back to me, whereas aggression and anger is mirrored ten fold.

Time out is not really my thing, but I tried it this week too (along with yelling and raging back...urgh).

This too shall pass hey?