How much do you tolerate from a kindy

Hi all,

My DD who is 4 is currently in her 1st term of full time kindy (5 sessions per week) after a term of pre entry (1 session per week). I am having trouble with the kindy not being as welcoming as I would have liked- it just doesn't seem to be a great place to be. This is my first child at kindy, so I'm finding it hard to know what to expect.

Pretty much every day DD comes home with another story that seems unacceptable to me, however she is very stoic and says she enjoys going. I am not about to give her a negative impression of the place, so want to make as little fuss as possible. Although she is very boisterous at home, she is quite reserved at kindy. She is very intelligent, can read and write at a high level, and is very obedient of authority and listens to instructions. So for me, sending her to kindy is mostly about the social side and the chance for her to be creative, as we struggle to provide much of either of those things at home.

Examples of some of the things that have gone on are:
- on her first day of pre-entry I went up to the director to introduce DD, as she hadn't met the lady before and I wanted her to feel comfortable. The teacher barely addressed DD and waved her hand towards a table saying "there's playdough over there, go and do that". That was the only greeting DD received all day and I felt really awful leaving her there without a proper welcome with people she didn't know.
- I think following this DD had a few teary goodbyes to me, probably because of this issue. That is all sorted out now and she waves me goodbye happily.
- She is often left out of activities - the kids were doing a group activity where everyone had a teddy and they had to put it on the house, next to the house, under the house, etc. Every single other child had a turn and DD missed out. This has happened on more than one occasion.
- The kids are each given a folder where they do activities and place their work. DD has not had a folder made up for her. When DD asked the teacher (in my presence) the teacher responded that she can do that any time and was generally dismissive. DD didn't realise this meant she would need to ask during kindy time again.
- DD was asked whether she had brought anything for show and tell one day. Neither her nor I had been informed that she needed to bring anything. DD was very upset that she couldn't do her show and tell. None of the teachers mentioned after the day was done that she was to have done it that day.
- whenever I ask who DD has played with, she says she was by herself.

I have brought up with an assistant that we are concerned that DD may be spending most of the day by herself and being a little left out of things. The assistant ensured us this wasn't the case and that she would keep an eye out for DD. Since then I've noticed little improvement, apart from an over enthusiastic assistant.

In addition, today DD was hit and pinched on two separate occasions by the same boy. Once was during mat time, where I would have thought the teacher would have a good eye on all the kids. DD told the boy to stop, which he didn't do, but she didn't tell the teacher. I have told her now that she must tell the teacher straight away if that should happen again. I have written a letter to the teacher containing the details of this, which I will give to her on Friday.

I think that because DD is a good kid, is quiet and doesn't cause any trouble, she is just being left. In addition, the kindy is very multicultural and states that it has more than 50% of it's children who don't speak english at home. I'm thinking that these kids take up a lot of the teachers' time. I wonder whether DD is better suited to a different kindy, but think it's not worth pulling her out for 3 more terms.

Sorry for the length, but please let me know what you think!

I'd be asking a few more questions - each child at our preschool gets a 'portfolio' of work to show you what they can do/have done etc and you get to keep it at the end of the year. Sounds like the bear thing was a comprehension exercise to me so she should have been included. The only thing I think is 'reasonable' in all that is the fact she tells you she doesn't play with anyone. Kids at that age don't have the cognition to be able to say who they played with kwim? They can be playing with kids all day, but if you ask them, they will tell you that they didn't play with anyone, especially at this age. So I honestly wouldn't be worried about that too much if she said she didn't play with anyone, especially considering she seems happy enough. But all the other stuff, well that doesn't sound good and TBH I'd expect more from the staff than what you're getting. If you have a problem, they should always be available for you to talk to them - even if it means you have to make an appointment to see the director. And I'd be pulling her out if you really weren't that happy. It might only seem like it's 3 more terms, but 3 terms can make a HUGE difference in terms of development and school readiness.

id be asking for a sit with the teachers about you're concerns.
at my sons kindy, end of last term they bought home their lil portfolio, to show us abt where his skills where at one the first day and all the thigns they have done through out the terms.

try all ways and if ur still not happy then pull her out

I would be listening to my intuition - simply because I failed to do that in the past (re DD1's school) and came to regret it. If after you've discussed it with the teacher and things just don't seem quite right, then it's time to move DD.

BTW - I have come to observe that some teachers teach to a room full of individual people (these are the good teachers). Other teachers teach to a group (these are usually the teachers who are not passionate about their profession or who are under stress due to a high proportion of behavioural problems in the class). The trick is finding a school where you get a higher proportion of the teachers who will treat your daughter as a person and not a group member.

Not good enough. Not any of it. Say something and make them pull their socks up.

I'd request a meeting with them too.

I would go on your gut feel of the place. From what you have said there does seem to be a lack of care on the teachers part. Are there other local kinders handy and have you had look around them and got a feel for them. Three terms is a long term to a child and I wouldn't hesitate in pulling her out.

DS initially went somewhere that didn't put his picture up, didn't give him his own peg (everyone else had them), didn't respond to him as a person... I gave notice after a month; he was only one day a week and they weren't interested. He moved somewhere else and they were fussed about him: he loved it and thrived.

Given that the director even isn't that fussed, I don't know how much good having a chat would do.

Is there another option? If you're after socialization, are there any daycare centers with a kindy programme, or maybe oc?

Thank you all so much!

Glad to hear that I'm not making too much of nothing!

Trillian - I agree that she may be playing with other kids and even at that age I think they do a lot of playing next to each other rather than full interaction, so am ok with that, I guess.

BM - it's good to know that your son had his portfolio start from day one. I had thought that would be the case here too, otherwise how will we see progress?

MD - thank you xx. I totally agree with your point about what makes a good teacher, and perhaps I should listen to my heart. The practicalities of changing are making it a little hard for me to consider that at the moment! You are spot on though about the way this place is being run. I think they are picking out individuals (those that are having more difficulties), but anyone that can cope on their own is being left to carry on as "the rest of the group".

Audax & MistyFying - thanks, too. I'm hopeful that if I just speak to them, at least DD might be in the forefront of their minds a little.

BooBoo - yes, there is another kindy nearby, however, their hours won't be as suitable when I go back to work next term. I haven't been there to get the feel of the place, but it is definitely a lot smaller, which may be more personal.

TFB - you've hit the nail on the head about how I feel about this place. They have only just realised how well DD can read, despite one day me being a little late to pick her up and she was sitting on the couch reading aloud an entire book in the presence of the teachers. Not a comment then. The director did mention to me the other day that she'd noticed, and wondered whether DD had picked up reading herself - um, what? No, we did actually spend some time teaching her! Admittedly she has gone a long way further than we expected at this age.

littlelara - I think the other kindy is our best option at this stage. We could go daycare and there is a great Montessori not too far away that I think she'd love. I don't think DD herself would be too thrilled if we changed her, though. She is happy there, but I'm just trying to head off anything making it a miserable experience. We don't have any issues with motivating her to go there or coming home sad - she gets a bit sad about some of the above things, but overall it's still positive for her.

I guess the other thing is that I'm wondering whether this experience will help make her more assertive? She has been lucky in that being the only grandchild on both sides and in general everyone just dotes on her, so it might be good for her to just be one of the pack and have to make an effort to stand out? In my own experience, I was very shy until I was about 26 when suddenly I had a new job which required me to manage all sorts of people, and I began to come right out of my shell. I would love for DD not to be as painfully shy as I was all through school - I think she will have a better experience for it. I guess I'm wondering whether this will do that for her, or whether it will set her back and make things worse. Maybe she'll be the "big fish" once she's been there a little longer.

Anyway, I think you're all right and I need to book in time to speak with the director.

If you're going to speak to them, make sure you have very clear ideas about what you want to say (like your post, tangible things). Otherwise I find it can be very easy to feel intimidated or get fobbed off.
Let us know how you go. Even if dd is content, you know she deserves for her experience to be as enriched as the next child

I would just look for somewhere else. I think these things are obvious and if the kindy just doesn't get it then they don't deserve to have my child there. 'Caring about children' is not a procedure that can be fixed by a new policy. Once you have had experience with a good kindy then it will feel right. Good luck!

I think it sounds like the teacher isn't particularly passionate about her job. My DD1 is at kindy and she is always greeted by name each and every day, asked how her weekend was etc. Adults not speaking to children directly and treating them as individuals is one of my pet hates.

As for the plays alone thing, my little girl told me for a few weeks that she wasn't playing with anyone. I queried it a few times with the teacher and assistant because I had visions of my poor baby all by herself. Like Trill said, I was told that she actually did play with other kids all the time, and was actually one of the most social kids, but that it was pretty normal for kids their age not to acknowledge it. Now that she's in term 3 I get daily updates on what she did with whom, and who her "new" friends are that day.

I hope your meeting gives you the answers and assurances you need.

OK, so I have enrolled DD at another kindy from next term and she will finish off the term at her current kindy. I rang them today to tell them and the assistant said that she would be missed. I told her that DD isn't her usual self at kindy as is very withdrawn, but I didn't think anyone would really miss her - she has barely put down roots there and isn't particularly connected to anyone.

The assistant said she would get together Amelie's "folder" (I'll be interested to see what they come up with, as I know she hasn't been given one!). I have noticed they seem to be in a rush to get them done for the kids who head off to school next term- I thought they were supposed to be an ongoing record of the child's kindy year. Oh, well!

I am wondering whether I should write a letter or not. I'm kind of glad to have it over with and am ready just to move onto the next thing. And I'm a bit hot headed when I write letters... is it of any benefit?