is ivf a "treatment" for recurrent miscarriage ?

hi everyone,

a quick background, i have a DD who is 5 and a DS who is 3 and both were conceived with clomid, since then i have had 4 miscarriages. the last about a month ago, i was on progesterone pessaries and asprin etc with this last pregnancy but still only got to 9 weeks.

i have had a million blood test and all have been normal, im 38, i have pcos and insulin resistance and also high prolactin levels, all of which can affect egg quality (apparently).

im seeing my fs next week and im thinking she will suggest going to ivf now, so that brings me to the question will doing ivf make a difference ? will being able to "chose" the strongest embryo to put back in mean a better chance of bringing home a baby in the end ?

i'd appreciate any thoughts or advice

Minnie,

I have never heard of it being described as being a "treatment" for recurrent miscarriage and IVF wont improve egg quality.

Of course, I am not an expert though... Do you know for certain that the reason you are miscarrying are those you stated??? Also, with regards to choosing the embryo, it's not the "strongest" they choose as such, it's what has developed. It also depends on how many embryos you get.

ETA: I forgot to say, if it is a chromosomal problem causing the miscarriages, you could try IVF with PGD (where they test and select the embryos for your particular disorder).

nothing2lose, yeah see thats what i thought, i think of ivf as being used for infertility not recurrent miscarriage. those factors have been mentioned by a few specialists as possible reasons for poor egg quality.

there has been no obvious reason for the miscarriages. my theory with the choosing the strongest embryo would probably be better worded as choosing the embryo that has divided and developed in the time it "should" and should therefore be the best ?

I guess you could give it a try. It might be just the thing you need :dunno:

My advice is to ask your FS straight out if it will make a difference.

Best of luck. I really hope your dreams of another baby come true :)

thanks nothing2lose, same to you hun :hug:

just looking at your signature are you back doing an ivf cycle now ?

Thanks :)

Nope, not doing a cycle - must change sig! CD44 and waiting for AF to show :(

This is my saga atm...
https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...m-cd17-168021/

Minnie, aside from genetic testing, I'm not sure that it would help :dunno: Have you had all the 'extra' tests like killer cells and what not? (not really sure about all those things...)

geez hun how frustrating for you, sounds like you need to get some blood tests done to see what your hormones are doing, i will keep my fingers crossed for you. in my last pregnancy the only symptom i had early on were the sore boobs like you described in your thread

madB: not really, after the 3rd miscarriage i had an ultrasound and a hycosy which were both normal, the fs also mention doing a lap but again i just don't think i need that because i can get pregnant so it doesn't seem to be a structural problem etc

chromosomal testing was something i had wondered about, how do they test that do you know ? i haven't had the NK test done, i guess thats also something to consider.......im just not sure what to think

There are threads on it - a few members have been tested and found it and went to have babies. I think it involves a biopsy of the uterine lining?
I think it would be worth looking further into. Would have to talk to the right doctor though - need someone who's familiar with this sort of thing.

HI Minnie,
just happened to spot your thread. I could probably give you a 10page thesis on recurrent m/c but A) you probably wouldn't want to know all that and b) I gotta get out of the house soon!! As you can see from my sig, I have lost my fair share of bubbas. Sounds like you have had most of the standard blood tests on yourself. These should also include karyotype sceen of you and your DH, although given you already have 2 children this is unlikely to be an issue. You could also have NK cell testing. This can be a blood test +/- a uterine biopsy (done on a specific day of your cycle). AS far as I know, you can only get these done "properly" in Sydney, There is a Dr Gavin Sacks there who has been doing a research project on it. I flew to Sydney (from Melb) for a day to have the blood test done and see Dr Sacks. My levels were high so I went on prednisolone for my next 2pregnancy attempts. The sceond resulted in my DD but I did m/c her twin. Who knows if the pred made the difference but I am currently also tring for no3 and certianly using it again.
Did you ever have any of your m/c "products" (sorry I hate talking about precious babies like that but can't think of a better term) tested esp for chromsomal issues?
I had most of miine tested but only one was actually abnormal (one trisomy 15 boy). If you did have any with chromosomal issues then the IVF/PGD option certainly could be useful.I won't go into a detialed speil but in a nutshell,They remove a cell from a day 3 or 5 embryo and test for chromsomal abnormalities so only "normal embryos are put back in.
I don't have PCOS but rarely, if ever, ovulate on my own so I need the ART to concieve. My DS was with OI/IUI. I didn't necessairly need IVF to concieve but did do it firstly to try PGD -no pg and not to many abnormal embies so we did do standard IVF again in the hope of picking a "strong" one. We did get sucessful with DD but I'm not sure IVF was really necessary -just something I needed to do at the time. Now trying for no 3 we are doing IVF again probably more because I am very nearly 40 and we also didn't want the risk of twins again - I just don't think my body is made for two and I couldn't face that heartbreak again. IUI for me carries far to high a risk of multiples because I have never just produced 1 egg.
Anyway, sorry to be so brief and jumbled with this reply but I am happy to answer any more questions (when I have some more time!)

Meredith,

thanks so much for your detailed post, i saw the specialist today, she basically said the miscarriages are just one of those things and she doesn't know why they are happening. i mentioned my list of questions, she didn't really believe in the idea of NK cells but said she would refer me to dr Sacks if i wanted to.

she suggested a lap saying 10-20% of people find a problem that way but i think that would be more for people who haven't been able to fall pregnant not those who can but can't hold onto the pregnancies.

i asked about ivf and again she didn't think that was a solution as the problem isn't getting pregnant and she didn't think it would change the outcome of the pregnancy

so the bottom line is i declined the lap and we are at the point of deciding whether to try ourselves or calling it quits

i have never had any of the pregnancies tested so don't know about chromosome testing but we are both going to get blood tests done just in case


so sorry about all your losses and good luck ttc #3 :hug:

I'm not an expert or anything, but I don't think four miscarriages qualifies as "just one of those things".

madB: i know, its very frustrating :wall: i really don't know what to do from here :dunno:

I've had 7 losses all up, 4 of which have occurred this year trying to conceive #3. I was told, like MadB said, that 4 miscarriages is well and truly past the odds of "just one of those things" and definitely indicated a problem. DH had semen analysis done, which showed no problems.

I haven't had any testing done for abnormalities following m/cs. My FS initially suggested puregon for the first half of my cycle (stimulate follicle growth), ovulation induction followed by pregnyl for the second half of my cycle. Its not going to fix any chromosomal abnormalities, but it will provide "support" for any conception that may occur. I've also had investigations done to check tubes etc and all OK. After a lot of debate, DH and I decided NOT to do the puregon, but to monitor for the first half and then take the pregnyl. If I do conceive then the pregnyl will be continued for probably the first three months. Can't tell you how successful it is because I'm currently in my first TWW. My FS hasn't suggested IVF/ICSI because in his view the problem is likely not with my eggs, and definitely isn't my DH's sperm, and we certainly don't have issues achieving conception.

I hear you on not knowing where to go from here. We started trying for #3 saying "what will be will be" and I was fine with that, but now after m/cs I have an almost desperate urge for another baby but also worry that its nature's way of giving me a big slap and saying enough's enough. We've put a definite limit on our TTC - three more cycles and then we're done for good. Emotionally, mentally and physically I can't cope with any more, and the impact it is indirectly having on my family has to end.

Maybe getting a referral to the specialist mentioned is a good idea - getting a second opinion can be good, expecially if you're not entirely happy with what you've already been told. Maybe you'll get told the same thing, but maybe not. It is so emotionally draining going through this process its hard sometimes to make a decision and then not want to change that decision in the next minute! I guess what you really need to ask yourself is will you regret it a year, five years from now if you give up now without perhaps exhausting all available options? It is incredibly hard to know what is the right thing for you and your family, and I wish you all the very best of luck on whatever road you decide to take.

There are FS's who believe in NK cells and ones that don't. Dr S seems to be the guru on the whole thing.

I am so sorry that your specialist seems to disregard your questions. I don't think 4 losses is one of those things either. I think you are right in wanting more questions answered before moving on to further treatment. There may be an other option for helping your body maintain your bubbas, that IVF just isn't.
However, IVF and the idea of picking the best embryo might help too. I wish i could be more helpful.

LuluHB: thanks for your response. after we had our 2 kids we were undecided as to whether to try for a 3rd and then i fell pregnant naturally (after i needed clomid for our kids), we figured it was meant to be but then that turned into my first miscarriage, from there we were actively trying and i had 2 "chemical miscarriages" which brings us to this last miscarriage at 9 weeks. i don't understand why i fell pregnant naturally which led us down this path of pain and loss if i wasn't "allowed" to bring a baby home

part of me wants to keep trying because if we don't then we have been through pain and 4 losses for nothing, another part of me wants to walk away before i have anymore losses to deal with. its just so hard. im sorry you have been through so many losses, i will keep my fingers crossed for you in this 2ww :-) this specialist is actually the 3rd one i have seen (i was seeing one before i had my kids so he hasn't really been involved with this chapter of losses). i have been thinking about whether i will regret not going on in 5 years but im just not sure, i think i deadline is a good idea

lenny: thanks for your reply too, do you know any other options that might help maintain the pregnancy ? do you know are NK cells something that come and go because i didn't have any problems with my 2 children's pregnancies ?

I only know of people taking progesterone and baby asprin and clexane to help with their preganacies. Oh, and Antibiotics for some who have a history of PID or similar.

Just a note on egg quality - mine is apparently not great, but we only know this because i did an IVF cycle and they got to look at the eggs. However the interesting thing is my FS said yes, the quality of the eggs wasn't great - but this could have been because of the IVF, and not the reason for needing IVF, ITMS. The drugs can affect the egg quality in a negative way too.