night toilet training and waking them for trips to the toilet

So OH has taken the plunge and put DS to bed the other night without a nappy, DS was ok with that. First night I woke him about 11pmish (before I went to bed and put him on the loo and he went) he did wake about 4amish and was convinced his water bottle wet the bed :D The 2nd night I woke him about the same time and he went to the loo and woke up dry :dance: Tonight I woke him and he went again. My question is, how long do I keep waking him (and when I say waking him I actually carry him to the toilet, take his pants down and place him on the toilet so he isn't really doing it, I am :redface: ) ?

Thanks in advance

What I did with DS at about 2.5yo was get into his bed for night continence awareness. When he started to wriggle I woke him and put him over the potty, then about a week later took him to the loo (we had a step chairy thingy). That happened for about another week and a bit before he was able to wake and take himself to the potty or loo. We didn't have as many accidents from that point as I assumed we would, and when we did I could really link it into something that was happening in his life/week/day etc.
Waiting for them to wriggle means you're waiting for the light sleep cycle to come round again, where the urine production starts again (with the help of them handy hormones that stop production in deep sleep!). By waiting till then to physically move the child, you are kind of training his body and unconscious mind to follow through with actions for elimination, rather than doing it all for him and teaching his mind and body more about you doing it for him than him doing it for himself, itms.
But, yeah, you may have to carry him, help with his pants etc for a little while, and then have a chat to him in the morning about it :)
At this stage it's more important to focus on listening to the messages his body is giving him and you showing him how to respond to them than keeping the bed dry.
Do you have a Conni pad? I got DS to sleep on top of his directly (we had two to work with!) for a while, so that I was only washing that and not an entire bed of sheets, just for my own convenience, but never made an issue of the wet bed except to have a chat about getting up to do a wee when he felt the need.
Have a read of Ingrid Brauer's book "Natural Infant Hygiene" for more info on the physiology of elimination. Yes, it's a book about EC, and I found it really useful for night-continence for DS, because by the time I read up on EC DS was already day-continent after being nappied till that point.
Good luck!

I have never woken them up to go to the toilet, I just get DD to go before bed and she is right till morning she has wet a few times but I figured that was all part of learning. When DS toilet trained I didn't wake him either but he never wet the bed. Sorry I'm no help.

I'd never been a believer in waking them overnight to go to the loo. I figured that when they were really ready they'd stop wetting.
Then I had a late night TTer.
I get DD (whose 5) up at 10-11 every night before I go to bed. I have to physically wake her and she walks as I'm not allowed to carry her any more, and sometimes now she even wakes herself before I go in there and takes herself to the toilet.
I have left it a couple of times and I've been up changing sheets. I figure that until she's regular at waking herself I'll keep taking her. I'd rather give her confidence to continue than continual worry of accidents. But she's a bit older and more aware too.

thanks for all your replies

Maya - I love the idea of EC and it really makes sense but I don't know if I am that aware of DS... will have to put in the effort though cause I don't want to be washing sheets everyday!! :D

Po5 and Kim, I don't really want to be waking him either. He is 3 and 1/2 and I am getting pressure from OH that he should be out of night nappies. I have told OH that I don't think he is quite ready yet cause he has never woken with a dry nappy but as DS seemed ok with going to bed without nappies I followed both thier leads. I don't really want to wake him either cause I think that defeats the purpose of him learning to hold on through the night but everyone I know IRL have done that :dunno:

So last night I was going to bed @ 11pm and woke and carried him to the toilet and he wee'd. I eventually went to bed about 1amish and I heard him stirring (like you said Maya) and thought I should wake him but as I had only did it a couple of hours earlier I didn't. Next thing you know he woke up wet. I asked him gently about it this morning and he said he woke up wet and that he must have wet himself in his sleep. Could he not be ready to TT at night? how long should I persist before putting nappies back on him?

I do have 2 set's of waterproof sheets etc... so that isn't too much of an issue but I don't want him to get to the point of thinking less of himself cause he keeps wetting the bed. I use to wet the bed at night occasionaly right upto I was 9 so it won't surprise me if it takes him awhile but I don't want him in nappies until then either argh....

We would take DD1 to the loo before we went to bed for a few weeks, until she started to get grumpy with us getting her up. Once she started to get grumpy with us, we thought it better she stay in bed and not have to fight with her. Shes only had a couple of accidents since then. But I limit what she drinks after dinner, and I make sure she goes to the loo before bed. I also let her know that if she needed to go during the night than that was fine, she was allowed out of bed to go, and if she needed help then she could wake DH or myself up.
It rather cute to hear in the mornings her get up and go the loo before she comes and wakes us up.

Goodluck!!

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It rather cute to hear in the mornings her get up and go the loo before she comes and wakes us up.

Goodluck!!

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that sounds cute :D I would limit what he drinks but he has always been a big drinker at night and even last night after he had wet the bed he wanted another drink cause he was thirsty and wanted a drink. I will persist for a while yet and see how we go. *off to find the switch that does it for them :p

We actually ended up seeing a phsyio for help night training our DS1 and she said that lifting them is pointless. It doesn't help them to learn or even reduce the number of wet nights they have much.

If they are big drinkers at night you need to stop that by making them drink lots during the day(which will stretch their bladder so they have greater capacity at night).

I was the same as Po5. My DS decid4ed he didnt want a nappy anymore and stopped. he had a few accidents (and I am sure he will in the future too) but generally he goes before bed and when he wakes. I didnt wake him ever. I did the trick of protector, sheet, protector sheet to help if i had to chg sheets in the night (rare) and then moved to haviunbg one of those protectors over the sheet (just like across where the wet would be). he asked for no nappy himself though so thats why i went with this approach.
havent even started to TT DS2 yet (day or night) so I may have a different answer in a year!

Being 'psychologically ready' for TT, night or day, is not really supported by science, and is more a popular construct we've created after nappying took over from the child's natural awareness of the urge to let go, and, next, the ability to 'hold on'. They are two different things. With DS I started with the awareness of 'letting go' at night, THEN let him grow into his ability to 'hold on'.
An important thing is not to use dehydration as the method for 'night training', though. This is not training anything, just, well, dehydrating. It's a popular method, but I was never comfortable with using it - DS was still breastfed before sleep, and often through the night after 2.5 years, so I can attest to being able to learn night-continence without dehydration. In fact, DD has been night-continent and continence-aware for a long time now, and has just turned two - she stirs into light sleep and if she needs to wee she gets up and goes to the potty (in our set up it's too hard to ask her to climb up the step into the shed where the composting loo is, which is too high up for a step seat!!). And, definitely breastfed over night and breastfed to sleep - no dehydration required.
Brauer goes through all of this, making it a lot easier to understand and seem quite achievable :)
Aldo, it didn't take long with DS before I wasn't carrying him anymore and was just guiding him, then just whispering to him to go to the loo. We also went through bouts of resistance that we just rode through - it's not so much about the end result as the process that ensures a more lasting and happy outcome :)

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An important thing is not to use dehydration as the method for 'night training', though. This is not training anything, just, well, dehydrating.

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Lots of children are so busy during the day that they don't remember to drink so by the evening they are dehydrated and thirsty as hell. You can set yourself up for dry nights by making sure that they drink throughout the day.

That's true, too.
I would have thought it preferable, though, to help activate awareness and reconnect the messages between the sphincter and conscious mind (being that babies are born knowing they need to go and we train them out of it by putting nappies on them - no individual judgment, I did it with my first, because of cultural assumption!), rather than to delay this internal communication by achieving dryness through withholding of liquids.
I'm so sorry for the factual rendering of my explanations, I am firmly in academic-writing style-mode after completing two assignments this week and it will be a while before my stylised writing mojo comes out from hiding again!!
Anyway, you can take the liquid withholding route and hope for the best over a longer period of time (because he will eventually want a drink before bed and need to figure out staying dry), or take a more intense learning period of helping him gain awareness of his body and its processes. It's not the easy way, but then, having done both ways, neither is easy and one made a lot more sense, with greater longitudinal benefit. Just sayin' :p
Keeping it positive and achievable is the key to however you do it.
ETA: Onyx, your move ;)

My mum just woke me up each night till my bed wetting stopped, I tell you that training stayed with me until I was about 20 haha. I was so proficient at it I would do it sleep walking.

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Onyx, your move ;)

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Lol, I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree that dehydration isn't a good way to achieve dry nights which is why it is good to tackle hydration throughout the day to reduce the demand for water at night.

DS1 was so easy to train, woke him for about a week and used a potty we put in his room. It stayed there for another month, bearly used and maybe 2 wet accidents. DS2 is being a nightmare to train. He got up 1 night to go to the loo and never again. We use pullups at night and he knows they wont hold a whole night of pee, but..... At kindy he never wets the bed- have a day sleep at home- will wet the bed every time. I starting to think its not just physical but a phyc thing too. They will be dry at night when they want to.
My mum said 1 night I told her- no more nappy, my sister doesnt wear 1 I dont wear 1 and took it from there.
Both our boys come home dehydrated from kindy (its a big peeve for me especially in summer) and we try catch them up at night, they both have a cup for water beside their bed. DS1 is dry and DS2 is not.
I huess we keep waking them, until they wake themselves, night after night

Well, that was boring, Onyx, I thought it was gonna be a volley of think-typing...just as well it's not, though, I've peaked and now I'm troughing again...need food and sleep...!
Kel - I think you're taking a positive and constructive approach. There's no 'fail' in this caper, there are periods of reversion and that's not 'failing', just reversion, where you have to put your building blocks back together again. You want to avoid any stigma or shame. I think you have been, so just keep doing what you're doing :)

:D thanks Maya and yes I don't make a big deal about it, just change the sheets and get on with it. It's a nice reason to sleep with him again (he has just started 'sleeping' through most nights)

Onyx I think the day hydration is a really good point and something I have noticed that DS doesn't drink as much as he should through the day and this is something I am going to have to concentrate on.

Thanks doubletrouble for sharing your experiences and I think I will just take it a night at a time. Thanks Lolipegs, I was a sleep walker and mum use to tell stories of me trying to go out the front door or open the TV cabinet to go to the toilet and she said she had to guide me. This is the thing too, I don't go to bed til late and go to the toilet before bed and as soon as I wake up so I am not 'holding' on for more then 6-8 hrs most nights and I am hoping he can hold on for 10-12 hrs :dunno:

BUT he seems to have come down with a vomiting bug tonight so I did put him in a pullup in case we are struck with diarrhea.... :wall: