Hand expressing VS Pump, some Q's

I'll try to make this short..

I have been expressing with a pump and about 4wks in my nipples were massively irritated. after a looong investigation it was concluded it was the pump causing irritation.. So I started hand expressing sometimes to give my boobs a break from the pump and also got bigger sheilds.

Now, unless my boobs are really full eg; 1st thing in the morning or after a cuddle, I barely get anything from the pump, especially from my left boob. Just then I pumped 15mins each side and got 20mls. I can hand express more in that time, but my hands cramp up and it's time consuming, so I only hand express for 10 mins each side. Is that enough?

I am worried that hand expressing has made my boobs not respond as well to the pump.. I don't mind hand expressing sometimes, but not 8 - 10 times a day.. I want to get decent volumes with the pump.. Also I have tried hand expressing then putting on the pump and it makes no difference. My boobs just don't seem to be stimulated by the pump. It also makes no difference if I double pump or not..

Any advice? Is Barb around??

Have you tried different pumps? I know I got more using a medela symphony rather than the older medela hospital pumps. The olkder ones seemed to be much harder to use. Are you using a warm face washer/ heat pack when hand expressing? I found I got a lot more when manually or hand expressing if I used warmth and some gentle external pressure

I hope barb comes in for you with some expert advice xx

Hugs hun. You've been on quite a journey! Symphony is great - the hospy might have one?

Also, you can use a bit of olive oil on the pump shields if there is a bit of a drag happening that's irritating. xo

warm cloths on your boobies, and looking at pictures of your bub, and imagining hearing them making their own special noises (snuffly noises, snoring, cooing, whatever noises he makes for you...) all can help.

and I definitely got different quantities with different pumps.

GL, hun.

I only ever hand expressed, but I wasn't having to express more than once or twice a day. The pump just made my nipples sore. I did get cramp in my hand sometimes - 10 mins sounds good to me - would have thought is more about the amounts then length of time. Maybe you could try some different pumps out by hiring them (ABA and some pharmacies do it). Is great though that you can hand express - is a valuable skill if you ask me (means you don't always have to have a pump with you) and so many people never master hand expressing.

THAnks for replies :) I use 2 pumps, it's the same, also I used to get ok volumes from them, but not since hand expressing. I pump next to Jett use heat packs etc. It'slike the pump doesn't stimulate my milk ducts anymore? That's why I am wondering if it's possible hand expressing has affected how my boobs respond to the pump.

DOn't get me wrong I am glad I can hand express it is quite a skill, but pumping is easier!

not sure then, sorry ... I used to pump several times a day, but was b/f too ...

hopefully Barb can give you some thoughts!

or, it might be worthwhile posting in the exclusive expressers bit to see if any of those ladies can give you some more ideas?

just had a random thougt that maybe the pain the pumps have caused you is setting upa cycle that when you pump you are stressed/anxious even if its not something you are concious of? and not getting let down for that reason?? Just an idea,completely different situation but I know when I was back at work when I went to express I had trouble just thinking aout the workload I had to go back to at times and m ability to express was hampered.

I hope you can get on top of this, maybe PM Barb? or speak to the hospital LC if you have a good relationship with them

I find on the occasions I have to express, I get better results if I've had a glass or two of milk (cows, not breast milk!) in the hour beforehand.

Dunno why it is, but I do notice a difference. I've tried a bottle of water or similar but it doesn't work the same way!!

What happens if you go back to the smaller sized shields? Sometimes the bigger ones don't work quite as well (although they are more comfy).
Is sucking happening? And if you have recently hand expressed then there may not be much more left to get out.

Are you sure that you know how to adjust the strength of the suck on the pump - someone may have turned it down to super-woosy when you weren't looking.
And if it is a pump that is supposed to change from little suck to bigger suck after a minute then are you sure that it is changing correctly?

Sararose - I thought it could be a bit psychological, but when my breasts are full the pump works ok..

Kimbles - I might try the milk suggestion :)

KMN - The smaller shields burn. I don't always hand express first, that's why I get frustrated.. I KNOW I'm not empty when I start pumping.. Then I try hand expressing and get milk no problem.. Pump suck strength I definitely have under control, and yes it changes automatically from small quick sucks to slow sucks, so that's not the issue either..

I just had a cuddle and it had been 3 and a half hours since expressing (by hand) and I put the pump on and it was fine because I was full..

Normally though, if I haven't had a big break it's like, when you first have bub they encourage you to hand express until your milk comes in??...I can get milk with hand, not with pump..

FRUSTRATING!

There may be another option. Typically after 6-12 weeks of breastfeeding, supply switches from being hormone-driven to being suck-driven - and expressing becomes more difficult as the total supply goes down to match what is being removed.
I don't know what happens when you are expressing - but I would guess that whatever hormonal kick you had driving your milk has probably gone away now, and you will simply make to replace what you have taken out.
And typically hand expressing is better at getting out the last bit than a pump is. Do you hand express the last bit out after pumping? That can help.
The other thing is that when you are hand expressing I think you have to take little breaks and stop and start - which effectively means more let-downs, and for some women more milk.
Can you talk about this to the LC?

One other thing, have you checked the valves on the pump to make sure there isn't any tiny cracks. I had some cracks on the medela symphony valves and had to get some new ones. Also are all the bits of the pump dry when you use it. I had a problem with the medela freestyle because I was using the valves without drying them.

I also occassionally use olive oil on my bb when they are sore from pumping.

I'm not sure how long you have been expressing and if you are doing it full time. I'm a full time expresser and noticed when I stopped trying to attach DS to the breast at about 9 weeks I had a big slump in my supply. I ended up having to go on motilium as nothing worked to increase it. This doesn't happen to everyone but it happened to me. I tried raspberry leaf tea, fenugreek and pumping up to 10 times a day (very insane). My supply has been great since going on motilium.

BAL - just wondering how expressing is going now, pump or hand...?