4th ET is BFN- now i need some help!

Hello all BB'ers,

Received my 4th BFN recently. As my signature states, i tried for 3 years naturally, did x 2 IUI (BFN) and now x 4 ET (BFN). This included x 2 stim cycles, which both resulted in one fresh and one frozen egg transfer for each cycle. Now i have to do another stim cycle in 2 months (grrrr.....). There is nothing at all wrong with my hubby, and i ovulate fantastically, always have known when im ovulating. I ovulate on the exact day i know i will (i.e. super regular) and previous scans, ETs show that i produce a lot of eggs without the use of drugs to help, and that there is no problem with fertilisation of the eggs. The problem seems to be the progression of the eggs. A lot of the eggs dont progress and the ones that do to ET stage dont seem to progress further- so theres some sort of issue with the embryos when they have formed.

I will be going in for my 3rd stim cycle in 2 months time, and we just HAVE to make this cycle work. We have spent about 20k (in credit mind you) on naturopaths, acupuncture, IVF etc. over the past few years, and we cannot go on like this, its not sustainable. This third cycle and any resultant frozen embies i have to make work, or else i dont know what we are going to do.

I just wanted some advice as to what i can do exactly so that i can to make this work. I am willing to do anything. I am now doing the following:

-Back on the 'Pregnancy Care' vitamins from naturopath (Francesca Naish formulation), extra strength fish soil, hubby will be on Menavit
-I have completely cut out alcohol, caffeine, sugar and dairy. Its hard but i can do it. Ive noticed in the forums that most ppl say to have full cream dairy- however the Francesca Naish pre-conception diet rules out having dairy for ppl with previous endo.
-Only eating whole grains, organic fruit and vegies, chicken, fish, lentils etc., nuts, seeds- no fried foods, nothing unhealthy
-i also walk, do yoga, cycle and once a week i play netball

Im not sure what else i can do, apart from the healthy physical side, i know i need to keep positive mentally- this is probably the harder part. I need to make my eggs stronger and more resilient so they can get through the embryo growth phase.......im not exactly sure what i can take specifically for this. BUt my ivf doc will be putting me on LH hormone when i start.

Any advice or assistance would be of great help- i have no one else to turn to for advice apart from BB. I cannot afford to pay more naturopaths etc. to help. Ive seen about 4 over the years and im not sure whether they helped or not. I also have many friends who are a great support, but i dont know anyone who is going through what im going through. Everyone i know with kids (and there are many now!) have not needed help, i seem to really be the odd one out- ah well cant harp on that for too long- that kinda thing drives yo nuts! BUt i really do think you need to talk with ppl who have been through this, ppl who havent just dont understand.

Thank you for help in advance, any positive success stories after 4 ETs would help me mentally too!

B. xx

hi bianeczka,

i just responded to you in the other thread, but thought i would let you know that i have read that co-enzyme Q10 (you can buy it from the pharmacy), is sposed to help with egg development. on the back of the pack it actually says it helps with sperm development too. i havent tried it myself, but im sure some other girls in here have who might be able to tell you their experiences with it.
also, a friend was telling me the other day about a treatment for poor fertalisation rates/embryo development, HA-ICSI or PICSI. from what i understood a solution is added to the sperm sample, and only the top sperm will bind to this solution. they then use these sperm for injecting in to the egg. monash ivf have a useful fact sheet on their site about it, i am not with that clinic but found the info useful. something i might look in to if i dont get a successful result soon.
the only other thing i have pressed my FS for in my quest to find a reason for my unexplained infertility is to have the blood clotting tests done. just a blood test, usually they take around 7-9 vials for testing. sometimes they dont request these tests unless you ask. i guess if you are 'normal' on paper, they dont like to order unecessary tests.
i am hearing you about everyone else getting pregnant - my sister, older than me, got pregnant her first month of trying. its hard, but you've got to keep trying.
im sure the other girls in here will have more ideas for you too, but i tend to think that sometimes it is just luck. we can do all we can to improve our chances, but we are just waiting for that one perfect embryo to decide it will stick around. i hope you get yours soon.

goodluck.

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear you've had such a long and unsuccessful journey to conceive so far.

Have you been at the same clinic and used the same FS for all cycles so far? Have they tried changing the dosages and protocols you're on each time, to improve the outcome? Have you had all the tests for killer cells, anti-sperm antibodies (or whatever they're called) etc? If not, something I have heard that if you have repeated unsuccessful cycles, it's worth changing which fertility clinic and FS you use. Thankfully I had success on my first cycle, and didn't need to go down this track.

I'm sure some of the more experiences AC ladies will have some other questions and suggestions, too.

I wish you luck. :)

Oh hun, it seems you have done all the right things to help you conceive, and it's just not fair that it hasn't worked. I was going to suggest a/c that specialises in IVF, but it seems that you've already done that already. The only other thing that comes to mind is some herbs from a place in QLD, I can PM you the details if you like. I haven't personally used them, but I've heard a lot about this company and I get this letter every month with success stories. I almost did it myself, but then my FS said that my egg quality was OK (something I struggled to accept myself, but I guess he's the expert). The aim is basically to make you conceive, and if the issue is with the eggs they give you herbs to improve the quality of them. You've got to do the herbs for several months for them to have any effect (a little bit $$). Have you had an AMH test done to check your reserves? Sounds like you've got plenty of eggs anyway, so in theory the level should be good. I can't think of anything else hun, I'm sorry, I just wish you success next time around and don't give up. I can't even imagine the financial pressure, as we've been lucky to have done only 2 cycles with success, but I have heard of some people go on and on and do so many cycles to fall pg eventually, and some even naturally after they gave up! I guess it comes to what you can handle emotionally and physically and of course financially. GL sweetie, I wish you the very best with it all xoxo

Hi Bianeczka, so sorry to hear of your troubles, unfortunately we know where you are coming from. As you can see from my sig I didn't get a positive until my 7th ET. I had blood tests which identified a blood clotting disorder and I believe one treated made all the difference. I would be pushing your FS for these if you not already done so. I also changed FS. Sometimes just a different set of eyes or hands can make the difference. FS technique for ET can be the difference. I also did the sharkeys herbs but made no difference to me unfortunately, they work I think when you just need a little help with hormone adjustment. I think your diet would already be what you need for good embies. I think I have also hear dhea for embie quality, and also that sperm quality kicks in after day 3 which can effect embies ability to progress so your DH should still be watching diet etc. that's all I can think of. If your are interested I posted in the success sticky thread about all my cycles and everything I did that might give you ideas. Wishing you all the best xx

You are doing everything you can and thats the frustarating and upsetting thing :hug: Im sorry that your TTC journey hasnt been a quick and easy journey. Unfortunately as much as IVF is an science so much is still unknown and its still left up to what your little blastocysts want to do. My story is different from most and I wont bore you with details but long story short is that you arent alone and we did finally get a BFP. TTC with unexplained infertility and everything looking so darn normal is so frustrating! Sending you strength and lots of BFP vibes :hug:

I'm sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. I know from experience how heartbreaking it is.

I have endo too and it seems likely that was the cause of our problems. Have you considered another lap to remove any endo that has grown back or do you not have any other signs of that being necessary? The reason I ask is that we did 4 ET before my lap - all BFN - and then did our 5th transfer 2 months after my lap and that gave us DD.

Diet-wise, I agree that dairy is good to avoid when you have endo. Have you seen the endo diet? It's on the endo-resolved website. It's basically no dairy, no gluten, no red meat, no soy, no artificial anything and no refined sugar (and possibly others I've forgotten). It's very restrictive, but I know some ladies swear by it. I'm too lazy to do it properly, but I did cut out dairy and sugar before we started IVF#5 (5th fresh cycle) which gave us DD. I had also cut out dairy and sugar back in 2009 just before we had our chem pg (first ever BFP, naturally-conceived in between IVFs).

GL and I hope your 5th transfer is a success. :goodluck:

ps. Don't beat yourself up over positive thinking, or a lack thereof. I was certain our 5th transfer would fail since our embryo quality was below average. We had also had several other events happen during that IVF that had me on the verge of a nervous breakdown - there was no positive thinking going on at all that month and the IVF still worked.