Natural Consequences??

i don't know what method of parenting i ascribe to atm. what i'm doing is not really working, but i'm trying.

was feeding ds on couch. dd asked 1) not to have shoes on the couch and 2) to sit on couch (not stand) or get down if she wants to jump. so she jumps and kicks ds in the head.

i stop feeding ds (cos he is crying). take dd to other side of room, ask her to sit and take her shoes off. she cracks it. i put shoes on top of fridge . --> natural consequence if you can't be sensible with the shoes (and not kick your bro in the head) then you can't have the shoes. she is going mental and i think the whole thing is just over her head, she is just pee-ed off and doesn't even know wy now.

so what do i do? if i ignore the behaviour it just happens more, and she doesn't seem to care. whenever i do something, she just goes mental and can't take anything in. if i talk to her about it she just laughs at me. she is a really physical kid, main sense is definitely touch.

do i let her melt down and then talk about it? i don't want to drag on about it, but i want her to understand why i take somethig away (which is usually safety - but i am starting to create consequences to her actions too). is the melt down a neccessity for some kids?

If she's into touch I would take care of bubs first, settle him so he's ok and happy. Then go in and hold her. I know it sounds crazy, but sometimes being held enables them to calm down enough to understand. Right now she can't process what you are saying to her. She has too much going on in her head. And most of it is confusion and upset. She's not just peeved, she probably doesn't understand what she could have done instead of what she did. How to control those urges and emotions that cause us to get upset. It's also about learning as you say Natural Consequences. When she's calmed down I would remind her about what happened and ask her if it's ok to sit on the couch or jump on the couch with shoes? I normally at this point also ask a ridiculous question to see if they are listening. And then I might suggest giving bub a kiss to say sorry, and then finding an activity to do. Not to distract but so she knows you aren't holding a grudge. Then next time she hops on the couch ask her if she remembers what happened last time and what does she need to do etc... It's not going to sink in immediately but they say it takes 9 times before it reaches the long term memory for instant understanding... until then they need guidance :)

I think your shoes on the fridge is a great consequence. It sounds like you are doing everything perfectly IMO ;) xx

What I mean to say is it IS working. It's just hard sometimes to know what else you could be doing. She will eventually trust in your consistency, know what to expect, and how to react and know that you will comfort her when she struggles, guide her when she can't see what to do. And it will get easier I promise!

One thing I'm finding is that I need to move away from having to do 'something'. We don't always have to have the right answer/response - in fact that's kind of a part of natural consequences. I get quite uptight thinking that I need to do something to DS so he knows that what he's done is unacceptable, but I think sometimes I'm missing the point spending so long trying to think of a consequence lol.
Sometimes the right thing just presents itself - so he throws something and loses it - and sometimes it happens later on - he keeps taking things off DD and now she's bigger she does the same to him.

Yes I think that sounds perfectly reasonable. When they scream and cry like that I usually say 'I can hear you're really upset because I took the shoes away. I know that you really wanted the shoes, but you can't jump on the couch with shoes and now ds has a sore head etc' then I usually offer the item back 'do you want the shoes back? (my dd usually stops mid scream at this point and nods) Yes you can have them back if you show me you can sit quietly on the couch...if you stand again they go back on the fridge (when she agrees and then sits quietly I give lots of praise and cuddles...if she wants to run off and do something else then that's find with me)'. I like to give her a chance to understand she's not in trouble, there are just consequences to certain behaviours.

Just thought I'd add a suggestion