Need suggestions for DD's sleep

Another sleep thread about DD, yay. But I've just realised that I'm about to have a newborn on top of this and I'm freaking out about what I'm going to do.

DD has been a terrible sleeper since 6 months old...pretty much when she started teething. She's been teething pretty much constantly since then, they take ages to come through, going up and down, and when they finally do, more start. The only teeth she has yet to cut are the 36 month molars or whatever they are, the very back ones. Her eye teeth are cut but still coming down. Amber necklace has done nothing to help her unfortunately, and I suspect she's actually sensitive to painkillers, because we actually found she was worse on Panadol and Nurofen. Anyways.

We have a good night routine, good sleep cues for naps. I've been adaptive, gone with her cues, gone with the flow, gone by a million different routines of my own making...nothing really works. She takes ages to put to sleep and I'm really not okay with it anymore. I'm so scared of having a newborn who needs my attention and having to spend an hour plus trying to get DD to sleep. I'd really love to be able to pop her in her bed, close the door (or heck, even just sit in the room with her) and she could eventually go off to sleep. I'd even be happy with patting her etc. But she just plays, or tantrums...hard. Screaming, crying until she gags, kicking and hitting. I've tried popping her in her bed and leaving...she howls, it's traumatising for her, she runs to the door and screams and bangs on it. There are two ways to get her to sleep; Daddy bounces her in his arms in her room, usually for 30-90 minutes. Often, she will wake up when put down and cry and scream, so it's another 30 minutes getting her back to sleep. Half the time, DH can't do it anymore and will give her to me. She's too heavy for me to be holding while pregnant (SPD), so I will lay with her in our bed, pat her back, stroke her hair etc. This is for day naps too. We have special music we've used for about 6 months now we play while we put her to sleep. We've tried no music and it's worse. For me, she will either try to get up and play, or scream and tantrum. Everything is a tantrum these days, but especially her sleep. We've tried later bedtimes, earlier bedtimes,two naps, one nap, no naps. All terrible. There's no pattern or predictability.

What can we do? What methods can we try? It was easier when she was BF. at this stage and the age she is, I'm not 100% adverse to letting her whinge a little...seeing as she's crying constantly throughout the day, and when we try to get her to sleep anyway, I see little difference. But she gets very genuinely distressed and I'm not willing to let her get to that stage, which she does almost instantly, so those types of methods are out.

So yeah, any ideas? Help? :(

ETA it feels like one of those things that we just have to keep pushing through. Thing is, we've been pushing through for the last 11 months. I'm tired of pushing through. I literally am at a loss for what I will do with two kids when one needs all this time dedicated to getting to sleep. And okay, when Amey's a newborn it may not be too bad, but what about when she's older and more mobile?

I'm starting to doubt whether I should even cosleep with Amey, I know that's silly but all that talk of 'making a rod in your own back' that MIL and mum harped on about feels true right now :( I just want my children to be as contented and safe as I can make them feel.

Is she in a bed or cot? DD was in her cot till 2.5 because I knew we would be having another baby before then and it was easier to put her to bed in her cot when we had a new born too. I started putting her in and sitting in the room - she knew I was there but I was not touching her. If she was happy I would kiss her tuck her in and leave. If she was upset - wingy not hysterical I would lay her back down and sit on the floor. If she got up and I would repeat and sit on the floor untill she drifted off. It didnt take long and we could lay her down - sit on he floor and 10 mins latter she was sound asleep. The cot heloed keep her "contained" as such not that we left her if she was really upset - just she could keep getting up and down all the time!

She sleeps in her own room now at night, has done for a few months. If I'm putting her to sleep, she'll fall asleep in our bed, then DH will transfer her. I can't put her to sleep or transfer we to her bed at night or for day sleeps, because her bed is so close to the floor and I can't get down there. Left alone, she'll nap during the day for 30 mins to an hour. If I'm lying with her she'll sometimes make 2 hours, but more than not it's 1 hour. She wakes up 3-6 times a night still.

If we have all the sides on the cot, she gets even more distressed. The cot we have is too low with all the sides up now (if we raised or she can climb out and it's a fair drop) so it's set up like a bed with one side off.

No real advice, but just wanted to say my DS also has a real cot aversion (seems to be the sides) so he is now on mattress on the floor (no good for you while pregnant) and is also a horror to get to sleep (he pokes his eyes to try and stay awake!) but I did exactly the same with him as did with DD, and he is so opposite in sleep patterns to her - so you can do the same and end up with complete opposite - so if you want to co-sleep (we have always done on and off) with number 2 do it - better you do what feels right and you may or may not end up with a difficult sleeper - than do something you are not so comfortable with and still end up with the same result.

I am sure also have read a few times about where number 1 child has started sleeping much better right when number 2 arrives - is like they have a sixth sense or something about how much you can cope with.

DS was a bit bigger when DD came along, but it was a similar struggle. I had DD in the cot for about 10 weeks. It was just easier. I didn't trust ex, so couldn't sleep deeply with her in the bed & I often had DS in my bed too. So didn't want him kicking her. Her & DS were always in their bed next to mine til the first feed. Then they slept in with me.

I used to sit with DS til he crashed out. But he was pretty easy. I still have to sit with him & he still comes into my bed almost every night, but he sleeps.

DD is harder. She sounds similar to your DD. We go to bed at 8pm every night. All of us. I turn every light in the house off at this time. That way its boring because they can't see anything. DD will still get up & wander around, but I just wait for her to come back.
I lay in her bed, quietly. She will carry on & jump around & play. I just keep laying her down & telling her to close her eyes. Eventually she does settle, but it can take an hour or so.

It will get better. If you start one routine, stick to it. Don't do it for a few weeks & try something new. Stick to that one for a few months at least. When you have the baby, you can feed her while sitting in the room with DD. You can hand her over to DP too. It won't be as bad as you think it'll be. And there's nothing wrong with having 2 babies in your bed. I've done it. I'm still doing it, I just don't have a partner on the other side.

You'll learn that whatever works, works. If they're in your bed for the next 5 years, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with that.

Sounds very hard :hug:

You mention that you think she reacts to the medication.... Have you considered trying dietary changes? It could be she has a sensitivity to preservatives or salycilates or something else like that, which can often result in difficult behaviour, sleep problems, etc, etc. (This is my *thing* at the moment seeing the difference in my kids after going failsafe)

We ended up putting the mattresses on the floor and sleeping as a family. Not ideal. But it worked. We still often all end up in one room (we have 2 double mattresses on the floor) to sleep. Even DD who is 5 1/2 will still come in sometimes.
I used to feed DS1 and pat DD but she never tantrumed or screamed she just couldn't settle herself to sleep and cried if I left her. When DS2 came along, I did the same with DS1. I laid in bed DS2 on the boob and DS1 and DD was on her own bed. As long as I was in the room she was happy, but I had to be with DS1 in the bed or he wouldn't settle. Now they're bigger I can just sit with DS2 on his bed, and sit in the room with the bigger kids until they fall asleep.

I was staring down the barrel of three kids waking at night when I was pregnant with #3 - DS was waking once or twice, DD was waking with massive screaming sessions and I was 8 months pregnant. I ended up crying to the health nurse at a public latch on event lol.

I am certainly no sleep expert 'cos I can't even get my own kids to sleep but I would get her into a single/king single bed. Put her to sleep in there during the day, teach her to climb down properly when she wakes (my 13 month old gets off my bed after day naps). Send your DH in to resettle her/co-sleep when she wakes during the night. It will be a rough ride for a few nights as she gets used to DH settling her, but then it is easy (or at least his problem, not yours lol).

Have you tried a later bedtime? Sometimes it is better for the sanity to put them to bed at 9.30 and have it take 10 minutes rather than aiming for 8pm and taking an hour.

I'm going to offer some different ideas although I think the other posters have some great suggestions. Does she watch any TV yet? Is she into any of those kids shows on ABC kids? Many of them have CD's or on itunes you can download story tracks only (no video) so you could get her to lie down and "listen to the story." What about one of those baby lights that shines lights and plays music at the same time? Perhaps your DD is now associating bedtime with negativity and making it a bit more fun but still calming/relaxing might break that cycle. Can you give her a little torch of her own to play with when it's bed time? Does she have a dolly? Can you try and get to her to lie quietly with her dolly stroking it's back while you sit in the room and sing to her quietly or tell her a story in the dim light?

We pat my DD when she goes to bed. It's less than ideal and sometimes we are in there for 20 minutes or so. She was one of those kids where I could put her in and shut the door and just changed in the last 6 months or so. I think kids go through phases. It's hard, especially when you are pregnant. I really feel for you and I hope that one of these ideas works for you guys.

I second what Artechim said about a later bedtime. I was on my own for a month while DP was away and just got sick of it taking more than an hour to get DD2 to sleep so I just put her to bed at 9pm. My mum said she used to put me to bed at midnight because she got sick of battling me :)

Also think about getting rid of the daytime nap. I know she's very young still but maybe just try it for a few days and see if that brings her bedtime forward. My DD needs 12 hours solid awake time (I know she's older but at least working out her pattern has made it easier for me to predict what time her bedtime will be)

Good point about the awake time too - my 13 month old lasts about 8 hours after a nap, so if she wakes any later than 1pm I know I am in for a late night. She has a 3pm absolute cut-off where I just won't let her go to sleep.

I recently stopped feeding my DD to sleep. I have implemented the Shihad method: We dance to Pacifier, then move to walking with her head on my shoulder and by the end of Comfort Me she is asleep - never fails! Sort of a distraction thing, rather than a 'you have to go to sleep' thing itms.

Thanks guys! I'll respond to this properly later when I'm on the laptop, because I want to reply individually and it's too hard on the iPhone.

DD1 went through a rough patch when DD2 was about 2 months old so she was a little older than your dd. We ended up sitting on a chair in her room until she settled and over about two weeks we moved the chair to the door way then hall then the living area. She would ask if we were still watching her and we would say yes, it was about reassuring her that we were still there even if she couldn't see us. I would sit on the chair feeding dd2.

My girls were in single beds at just over 18months and have never hurt themselves falling/getting out of bed. DD2 has rolled out but was confused more than anything. Do you think a low single bed might work? I hope things improve before Miss A arrives xx

ETA dd2 was over 3 when she rolled out of bed

I haven't got much advice abt sleeping but with teething I found homeopath works really well. Chamomilla is usually the recommended one.

There is also another school of thought - is she to over tired from the day? My DD is 4 next month and she still sleeps 2+hrs in the day - if she doesnt she is a night mare to get to sleep! DS is the same - good sleep during the day = great sleep at night. Ill never forget my MCHN said "Sleep prmotes Sleep" and it is 100% true in our house :)

Have you looked into jay Gordan again??
As you may remember I used his method but adjusted to suit us (we did it in her cot)

i agree with the suggestion of a king single bed for dd. it was a winner here. it meant dh could help settle her while being comfortable. I found it too difficult to get up again (i was pg too), so put a comfy chair next to DDs bed.

even if you don't get things under control by when baby arrives, you will get through. i sometimes bf baby while sitting next to dd in her bed reading a story. or bf baby and then rocked him in a rocker with a hand or foot while feeding/working with dd. my dh does shift work, so i don't always have a second pair of hands and we have all survived so far!

could it be that she is just really overtired so constantly fighting sleep and possibly not napping enough during the day? even now at 21 months DD still sleeps like 2-3hrs during the day. Perhaps if you could spend a few days just constantly watching her tired times, and if there's some sort of pattern, maybe trying to put her down even 30 minutes earlier? It may help with the screamy crankiness.
Does she like you singing to her? I found when DD was going through a stage of this, i'd sing her a song (Mockingbird) and she loved it. even if she was screaming id still keep singing to her and usually after a little bit she'd calm down. I also used to sing it at other times during the day so it wasnt just a bed time song.