Induction and C/S aren't always bad

I love this forum.
I have gained wonderful knowledge and support here but I just have to type this.
The advocates for natural and non-medicalised birth hurt my feelings a lot.
Here is my story.
I fell pg at 40 to find myself ready to give birth for the first time when I was overweight but fit and healthy at 41. I was absolutely worried about giving birth at the tertiary hospital but our local hospital would not allow me to deliver there with my high BMI and because I was older. I was classified as "high risk" and cared for by the FMU at the tertiary hospital.
I understood my rights and I kept putting off the offered induction. at 41 weeks pg I went into the hospital for a check-up and discussion about an induction in two days to find my baby's heartbeat had stopped and she had died. Had I not resisted the induction I would have a living breathing 2 1/2 yr old with me now. So much for the specialised care helping!
I was induced to give birth to my dead baby. The induction was not the terrible labour we are constantly warned about but quite gentle and I had very little drugs which considering I was delivering a baby I knew wouldn't move or breathe was not too bad.
Having taken 8 years to get pg the first time I doubted we would get pg again but against all odds and with help with timing from a good FS we concieved our DS.
As my first baby had died at 41 weeks we were supported in our decision to induce this baby early 38 weeks 3 days.
The wonderful staff at the FMU tried everything to support me having another VB but with a living baby this time. My breech baby was turned twice by one of the obs......he turned back the first time! Then after he was turned the second time they tried to induce me with a ballon system (can't remember the fancy name for it!).
This didn't work and I ended up with a VERY scary emergency C/S.
Both births were scary and frightening.
My point is that I could have saved my DD's life if I'd accepted the offered induction at 40 weeks and I could have prevented the scary emergency C/S if I'd accepted a c/s was a good idea to deliver my DS early instead of trying for the live VB.
I do understand people are bullied into births they don't want but I wish I hadn't stood my guns like I did and I wish I hadn't known about my rights. I would not have two babies not just one in my arms and I would not have been a stuttering, shaking, terrified mess when my son was born because the C/S could have been better explained and managed and I could have had time to demand immediate skin on skin instead I had a distressed baby boy.
Perhaps sometimes these OB's DO know what they are talking about.

I am do sorry for your experiences Kateo and the loss of your baby.

I'm so sorry you lost your daughter.

I agree with you, inductions and cesarean sections have their place, just no way near as often as Ob's portray. There are risks in all forms of deliveries, particularly UNNECESSARY (being the key word) interventions. It is unfortunate that you lost your precious girl. Perhaps if you had the induction she would be here. Perhaps it may have gone pear shaped too. No one knows. But what-iffing about it will not bring her back :( the universe really sucks sometimes!

I'm really sorry for your loss. :hug:

It's so hard to know what the future will hold, so please don't blame yourself for wanting a natural birth. It's not your fault. Sadly, hindsight is always 20-20, and that can be difficult to deal with after the fact.

For me, my life was endangered by the cascade of interventions. An induction gone bad, a c/s I probably didn't need..... a secondary procedure as a result of a complication during surgery. I guess I am the flip-side. Wondering how it would've been had I avoided all of that. I'm now working on my fear of birth, and looking forward to a safe arrival next June.

I really think c/s has its place, but for me, I'm simply terrified of it for my own personal reasons. This doesn't negate your views however, this just highlights how different our own experiences have been and how different types of trauma shape and mould your reproductive future, and entire life. Thanks for posting this. Whilst I found it confronting, and scary, your points are valid and I'm glad you were brave enough to share.

Once again, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.

Im really sorry for your loss Kateo :hug:

I have to agree with you though. There are a lot of people on here that are 'pro' natural birth and tend to get on their high horses quite a lot when anyone suggests induction and C section. It infuriates me when people push and push against things that an ob has said. My ob has been practising for 20 years and forgive me but im going to take his opinion more seriously over someone on here that 'thinks' they know best. A very similar thing that happened to you happened to my cousin and it was heartbreaking to watch her go through it.

Don't get me wrong I absolutely want a natural birth however, I will not go against the advice that my ob gives me. I think sometimes people need to think on here before posting their very one sided opinions, everyone is entitled to know their options and just because you had a fab natural birth doesnt mean the next person will.

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.

Questioning, analyzing and critiquing advice is what we all do in our lives every day. It is no different when we hear advice from professionals in any field. An opinion can only really be called that when the person has information to use to form their own idea. BB encourages this spread of information.

I refuse to admit I make anyone feel bad because of my experiences. With the information I share you have free will to form your own opinion about it. Any judgement you feel comes from yourself. And I think the original post makes that very clear.

Go gently on yourself. None of us can foresee the future :hug:

At the end of the day, we are the ones who have to live with our decisions. We absolutely should think them through, taking consideration equally to both sides of the coin to be fully informed. Of course, a perfect result is not guaranteed but at least whatever happens women should feel they real have done all they could and did explore all options.

I'm glad I chose homebirth. I'm glad for my sons sake I transferred to hospital. I'm disappointed I had the interventions I had though they were necessary. I will attempt homebirth again.

I'm sorry your gorgeous DD couldn't stay.

I also agree that induction and c/s aren't always bad.

If it weren't for medical care in a tertiary hospital, neither DS1 and I would be here today. Monash booked me an ICU bed on arrival because they were sure I was going to have a seizure. My brother (ICU doctor) looked after two women at the time I was at Monash, who were in a vegetative state because of pre-eclampsia. I was probably 1-2 hours away from that situation myself. If it wasn't for the medical care, I would be dead. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

If it wasn't for the decision to have a c/s, DS1 wouldn't be here either. His cord came off his placenta as they lifted him out of my (induced, but then emergency) c/s. This is an incredibly rare situation. The head ob (who was on duty supervising my c/s) has (now) seen it twice in 30 years. He would not have lasted another 5 minutes inside me. If it wasn't for his medical care, he would be dead. I have absolutely no doubt about that either.

I completely agree with you that inductions and c/s are not always bad. They save lives. They have saved mine and my son's.

And yet I find myself here, supporting the ethos of BB. I have been here for 8 years now - as a member, as a mod, and now a senior mod. I encourage everyone to educate themselves and find their own way in the often confronting and difficult decisions that they make in their lives. I fully support Kelly's idea of the power of womanhood - the ability of each of us to have decision making power over our own bodies. Educating women in relation to their own bodies and in relation to their own lives will bring a better outcome for all humanity. Kelly fully supported me throughout my DS2's difficult pregnancy and was unhesitatingly helpful during my recovery from my (eventually planned by my now XH) c/s. Sometimes I wish I had had the natural birth I wanted, but I know that the outcome for me (second c/s) was undoubtedly better for both myself and DS2.

What I am trying to say, in a roundabout way, is that each of us make our own choices. When we have knowledge, we are empowered. Yes, BB is often seen to be more about natural birth and breastfeeding etc. However, many of us (mods, seniors, admin included) have had c/s, or have chosen to bottle feed (I combined feeding for both my sons from birth), or have used daycare from early on (myself from 12 weeks for both my sons, including my premmie). There are many members who have made choices about their lives and those of their children and family, with the information they have to hand at the time.

More information/education = better choices. I believe that is what BB is all about.

I completely agree with what you have said Divvy. I think however there is a difference between people giving their opinion and then people pushing their views on you and telling you that you are wrong when you make your own decision. I posted a thread recently about induction given the difficult situation I was in with DH's work and I was floored by some of the responses I had. I know it wasn't just me that thought it was a little forceful and inappropriate as I had several members PM who were also shocked with some of the responses I received.

I have to admit there are things on here that I would like to ask, but feel like I cannot ask because of the one sided views that I would have to deal with.

If you're comfortable with your own choices then other people's opinions should slide off of you like water off a ducks back. As a PP said, we as individuals are the only ones who have to live with our decisions.

Amy_jellybean, I personally think you should be able to ask any question you need or want to ask. If people respond inappropriately or forcefully, PLEASE either report the post, or contact the appropriate moderators for that section. If you are after information from people who have been in that situation, then ask for responses only from those people. The moderating team are here to help - if there are issues, please bring them to our attention.

I support informed and educated choices. People told me I should definitely breastfeed. I chose not to, for my own reasons. People told me I should definitely VBAC. I chose not to, for my own reasons. People told me I should stay home and care for my small babies. I chose not to, for my own reasons. I am an educated and informed woman and I am not ashamed of my own choices. Looking back on them, I would absolutely make the same choices again.

Both Amy and Kateo - your choices are your own. I'll support you in your own decisions, whether or not I agree with them - because ultimately they are YOUR decisions which are right for YOU.

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Both Amy and Kateo - your choices are your own. I'll support you in your own decisions, whether or not I agree with them - because ultimately they are YOUR decisions which are right for YOU.

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Thank you Divvy. I feel the same way, I will support anyones choice even if it isn't the one I would make for myself. I just wish there were other people on here with the same thoughts.

I know Obs tend to portray the need for intervention being needed more than it is. This is the reason I questioned this treatment of me when I was pg the first time.
How on earth do we tell when their offered intervention IS NEEDED ?????
How do we know the difference between an over careful doctor and one who has the true best interests of the mother and baby at heart?
I was led to believe most offered intervention is for Dr's convenience so I resisted intervention when I should have accepted it.
How as "lay people" can we know that any offered intervention is not immediately needed?????
I had a better relationship with the OB when I had my DS. Unfortunately because he counselled us about the details of my daughters passing (unexplained stillbirth) he knew me well for the next pregnancy.
He understood my great wish to have a live VB and he worked hard to achieve this.
It didn't happen even with intervention...............
My problem is that my choices WERE supported! If I had been more bullied and not such a strong advocate for myself and what I thought was best for my babies I would be a whole lot BETTER off now!

That's the million dollar question, honey. I wish I had the answers. I'm still terrified of another c/s. :( :hug:

Kateo, please don't be so hard in yourself hun. You said yourself that your DD's passing was unexplained. At the end of the day, there's no way you can know whether the outcome would have been different if you were induced, it very well may have been the same. Some things we just don't know. Please do not blame yourself :hug:

No they aren't always bad. I had a wonderful OB who never pushed me into anything. I told him what I wanted but I also trusted him to make the right choice for me and my baby. If it came down to a CS then I was happy to do that. In the end I was induced to "fit in" with DH being home.

I agree they definitely aren't always the wrong option. I feel my SIL's induction is what allowed her to have a vaginal delivery rather than a c/s (not saying a c/s was an issue as such, but wasn't what SHE was aiming for) so I think in her case the induction was a good option. For what it's worth her DD was big, which we now know was caused by a medical condition but of course at the time we just knew the soon to arrive baby was big (not just slightly big, really big). She was induced early and had a vaginal delivery - albeit a very difficult, traumatic and harmful one due to her size - but I think a few extra weeks of growth would have tipped the balance from difficult induction to emergency section. SIL has gone on to have another DD or a more natural size (by that I mean natural for what her and her partner would expect to produce and not 'enlarged' by a medical condition) and had a lovely birth - again something that would have panned out much differently if the first had been a c/s and that was an attempted VBAC.

I think that being too single minded in either direction (ie. I'm going to follow everything my ob says down to the letter OR I'm going to fight my ob every step of the way) is not something that sits well with me. Sorry I'm not saying the OP did that, I don't really know the background story, but even if I did I'm neither qualified or inclined to pass judgement, just talking 'in general' here. Anyway, I think being very single minded and not open to looking at things a different way can mean you loose the ability to look at the things objectively and see how they sit with your unique set of challenges, rather than slotting into the standard line of the philosophy you follow.

Even though I've not been on the receiving end of unfriendly, unhelpful or inflamatory posts from what we are calling 'advocates for natural and non-medicalised birth' (sorry to steal you words, I dont' have anthing better!), I've seen what you are talking about and have winced along with other members at the sharper than necessary responses. The way I look at it, being in the position of having nice uncomplicated pregnancies and births is a bit of a luxury. If I had never had PE or an IUGR baby I could too could have had the luxury of a spontaneous labour and endlessly sprout the virtues of it to anyone who would listen. But I got dealt a different hand, I didn't have that luxury of delivering in the ivory tower. I am very happy that there are people out there that can birth how ever they want without the restrictions of illness, babies with crappy presentations, failing placentas or other such non-negotiables, I hope they totally rocked it, but that wasn't me and damned if I'm going to let anyone make me feel inferior because of that.

I am so sorry for your loss Kateo.
And thank you for sharing.
I have been part of the decision making teams
To intervene on the high risk pregnancy and get it right you unfortunately have to intervene sometimes when things would have been ok. The science is far far from perfect. BUT there is science. Guidelines like inducing before 42 weeks are actually evidenced based. The best evidence we can get. But it's not perfect. And some people will be fine... And some won't. You just can't tell which ones are which.

Having been there to support women just like you give birth to their beautiful sleeping angels I can no longer participate actively in this forum due to comments about intervention .
It affects you deeply and forever when you are involved in baby loss.
Most times doctors, midwives, mums, dads are just trying to get it right. Truly and really, trying to avoid the immense heartache and pain that you have suffered.

Hugest hugs to you. I carry you with me having "met" you on this forum and read your beautiful poetry. I carry you with me in mind with the women I have cared for in real life, I am sure this makes me a little more likely to suggest induction in certain situations. And I think that's ok.

Xx