Childcare/Kindy/School Dilemma - HELP!!

DS and DD have been going to the same CC since they started at 9 mo and 10mo respectively. The centre is great, the staff are wonderful and I have found no fault with it until now. And I really feel so emotional over this (yes I've even cried) but I really am not sure how to handle this.

DD is currently in 2-3A and has been put on the list for 2013 to go in to 2-3B. These two rooms share the same bathroom and play yard and basically can wander between the two rooms at will. ALL of her friends are on the list to go to 3-4 room in 2013. They all turn 3 before the Vic Curriculum cut-off of 30th April (most of their birthdays are in March or April). DD turns 3 less than 3 weeks later on the 19th May.

I rang the director of the centre to express my concerns and I received the following responses "she's too little, she'll be overwhelmed" to which I replied that there is only a few weeks age difference between her and her friends, plus she has a big brother in that room at the moment so she is very familar with it. I then was told that if she went in to the older room then she would be there for 2 years and she would be bored. I didn't respond to this at the time, but the more I think about it, the more I realise that she will be more bored going in to 2-3B which has the same environment and activities that she already does. She is TT already, so that can't be an issue. As she has a big brother she is much further advanced in her maturity and understanding than he was at the same age and I know she would cope with the big room just as well, if not better than some of her friends.

The thing that upsets me most about this is that it isn't just a couple of her friends moving to the big room, it is ALL. The only children that are remaining in the class with her are months younger than her and definitely much further behind in their development and maturity. And when you talk to DD about CC she always lists off her friends as part of what she does or did at CC, this is her main focus of her day at childcare. She never mentions any of the others staying with her in the new room, unless it is in particular reference to something they did or said. A fleeting statment. Her friends are very important to her and I'm so frustrated that this clearly hasn't been taken in to consideration at all.

Eventually I got the director to make a note that I would like her to go in to the 3-4 room, but I was told that they are already booked over capacity due to expectations of drop offs and so she may not get the transfer until later in the year. So then I think what's the point?

So the thoughts buzzing around my head at the moment which I need help with are:
*Do I withdraw both of my kids from the centre and move them somewhere closer to home, so 'kindy' feels more special to DS (he is just enrolled in the kindy program at CC so it won't seem very special) and DD can make totally new friends in a new environment so won't be bored this year, or the year after next (if she gets her transfer). But I am likely to end up with a CC of sub-standard to where they are.
*Do I kick up more of a fuss and throw a parental tanty to get my own way? It's not really my style! And I wouldn't be bothered by this situation if at least one of her friends stayed in the same room as her.
*What if I want to enrol DD in school the same year as her friends? They won't go to the same school, but for the sake of a few weeks from the cut-off she honestly may be ready at the time. How am I meant to know that now?

This probably plays on my mind the most, because I was very disruptive in Prep because I was bored. I remember very vivdly getting in trouble a lot and being upset about it because I didn't understand why I wasn't allowed to go on ahead of the rest of the class. Why did I have to wait for everyone else? I could already read and write at prep level while I was in kinder but having recently moved down from QLD my Mum just went with what she was told by the school system. But she says that as soon as I hit grade 1 I settled in beautifully and they had no more trouble from me. And that was a difference of a few months from the cut-off, and I'm only talking about a few weeks with DD. I wouldn't dream of this being an issue with DS, but I can see DD is just like me and I don't want her to be told she has to wait when she is ready to move on. Especially when the wait is a year long!!
*Tangent* - I have spoken to one of DD's best friend's mother in the past, who is going in to the 3-4 room, and she is concerned that with her being only weeks before the cut-off date that she won't be ready. So she has the reverse problem. At what point do you say I want my child to advance, and I want my child to remain behind. Especially with the kinder year only being allowed to be subsidised once by the government.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but I really feel quite distressed about this so needed to blurt!!

It's a difficult situation for you! There is a similar issue this year at our cc as they go by capabilities in all the rooms up until the kinder 4 room which matches the school cut off so a few kids are having to stay down.

I would wait and see how she goes if you are otherwise happy with the centre. It's unfortunate but she will end up separated from them by the school starts due to the age difference so it might be easier to make new friends now that might continue on with until school?

can you change your days? there may be some vacancies on the days you don't currently attend in the older room? or you could ask if the centre manager could possibly ask any other parents if they are able to change their days so that there may be a bit of movement in the days you would like your daugheter to attend? could you ask if there is any chance some of the older children in the older group could move up to the next room a little earlier so that would create some free spaces for your daughter to attend on particular days?

other than that, just keep asking and asking cause often children will drop out of child care or change days and you might be able to get her up sooner.
I don't think I would pull the kids out if it were me, because they are already settled and familiar with staff etc.

I can understand it would be very difficult for you.

Just a question though - is the childcare cut off the same as the school cut off in vic? I'm Asking as if she won't be able to start school with all her current friends anyway, would it be better for her to make new friends now with the people she would be starting school with?

Here's my point of view from someone who is pretty much in the exact same situation. ;)

My DD is a May 13th baby, so it's less than 2 weeks that she misses out on being the next year up by.
Due to our rural kinder being really small and requiring numbers, we were given special permission by the council to allow DD to attend the 3 year old kinder program this year (from the day she turned 3).

This has been absolutely wonderful for her and she has loved every minute of it. She's grown a great deal and made some lovely friends.
Today was her last session. All of the other kids from her class will attend tomorrow for a 4yo orientation session but due to the cut off, DD will repeat the 3yo program next year so won't be attending tomorrow. She will most likely be the oldest in her class in 2013 and having already had a year of the program up her sleeve, she'll have the knowledge about how the kinder program runs. I personally think it's a wonderful thing! It will really help develop things like her leadership qualities and certain values. I don't for a moment think she'll get bored even though she's in the exact same room with the exact same teachers.
My DD also has an older brother (who attended the 4yo program this year). Having an older sibling seems to have her a bit more advanced in comparison to some others (even to those she went to the 3yo program with this year). She's very well spoken and quite bright (Her brother is apparently highly intelligent so I imagine DD will head along those lines to a point).
DD seems to be more advanced with her speech than most other kids in her group this year, some of whom are more than 12 months older than her.

As for friends, while she plays at times with some kids, I've noticed that she doesn't actually technically have any best friends. I find she tells me that 'such and such' is her friend one day, and then someone else another. I don't personally believe they have that much of a bond at the ages of 3 and 4. They tend to play more on their own and occasionally with others (as did my DS) at these ages.
I don't see any problem with DD being with younger children and I actually think it might be really good for her. She knows what's expected of her during the program so she will be able to lead the other younger children by example. She will be comfortable in her surroundings as well. I haven't noticed the program being exactly the same between DS completing it last year and DD completing it this year. I imagine there will be even more variety next year - the days and activities aren't structured to be identical from year to year ;)

I personally LOVE the fact that I don't have to make the decision whether DD is ready for school or not. It's dictated to me by the cut off date that this state has elected. It's a massive weight off my shoulders and although I and her teachers think she's ready for the move up, she's unable to.
I really don't think my DD will get bored. At the ages of 3 and 4 the whole idea of kinder (and childcare programs) are the socialisation aspects.

I'm looking forward to her doing another year of 3 year old kinder. I think although she's been through it, she will learn many new things. She will be able to consolidate things she's already learnt and she'll be able to to really improve on other aspects. She will hopefully gain the confidence she currently lacks being the oldest and most experienced one in the program. If my DD needs extension, I'll take that on at home myself. :) You can also speak with the staff and see if there is anything they can do/set up to extend her while she is there.

If the centre is great, you love the staff and the kids are settled, then I would leave her there. If you find after the first term that things aren't going well then perhaps you can talk to the centre and staff and see if anything can be done. If it was me, I'd just leave her there. Things similar to this might happen at school in the coming years and what a great opportunity to teach her about them now :)

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Sort of reverse issue here, with DD1.

Qld cut-off is June 30, her birthday is beginning of August - the problem though is that they moved her to 'the big room' with all her friends at the beginning of this year because they said she was ready, but since early October when they started Prep orientation she's been quite upset that all of her friends are going to school next year but she doesn't go until the year after. If I kept her at this childcare she'd be in a room full of kids who are gong to be her school peers but who she now see's as being 'younger' or 'little kids'. Our intentions were always to send her to a stand-alone Kindy for the year before Prep (to the Kindy I work at when not on maternity leave), and it's lucky we did go with this option rather than keeping her at the daycare for her Kindy year like we initially considered because of location. At least then she'll see herself as 'equal' with her peers, instead of being 'the big kid' amongst 'little kids'.

If I could have it over I'd have asked them to keep her with her peers that she'll be going to school with, instead of letting them move her up. The daycare teachers in 'the little room' would have just made things developmentally appropriate for her like they do with the rest of the kids, she wouldn't have been bored, and she wouldn't have had to face losing all her friends at the end of this year.

So that's another thing to think about too.

If you are in Vic and the cut off is 30th April, you won't be allowed to enrol her the same year as her friends.

I too have a May baby and she had an extra year in the flight pattern. Served her wonderfully. She was already articulate and clever. But schooling isn't the only thing they learn/get better at. A good kindy carer will change the program to better the child.

Yep, as Kim said - you will need special dispensation for your child to start school early in Vic and it is very difficult to get! I would be inclined to leave your DD in the room with the younger kids, these children will be her peers when she does reach school. I would focus more on ensuring that her carers in the younger room are providing activities and stimulation suitable for her developmental level.

Good luck!

Thanks for your replies. :heartbeat:

Blackrose and Chody47 - She won't be going to school with any of these kids. This childcare is attached to my work (a university) so the kids are from all over and there isn't a local school that it feeds in to, so by keeping her in the little room isn't allowing her to make friends to go to school with, which is why I would prefer them to stick together - at least for now especially as they are all of the same development and maturity age. We are talking weeks between their birthdays, as opposed to months between her and the younger ones she is staying with in the little room. So for now, until the younger ones mature a bit more there is a definite difference.

2CheekyMonkeys - Changing days isn't an option - the place is so popular that all the days are full, but otherwise a good idea. They work the centre so that they all stay in the same room for the whole year. And the room above the 3-4 room is the kinder room, so not an option unless they are of 4yo kinder age.

Niadella - about the kids not having best friends - I would definitely say that about my son. He plays with most of the kids at different times, depending on the activity rather than playing with a particular 'best friend'. However in DD's case she has definite 'best friends', there are 4 of them (DD and 3 others) that are very close in their interests and playing who I would say are definitely best friends and then a few others that they all like to play with but is more activity based than friendship based. :dunno:
And yes, I was happy with the cut-off making the decision, but still have always said I will judge everything by my child - which school, when to start etc. and this is all based on the experiences I had and my brother had. I am learning from the decisions my parents made for us which is why I am wary that a few weeks after the cut-off may mean that I need to think about where she fits in ready wise because honestly my own prep experience was traumatic. My memories of it are very distinct.

Indadhanu - The stand alone kindy is exactly what I wanted to do with DS. But their long day program isn't long day at all (10.00 - 3.30) around our area, and that is too difficult with work. But I've never completely dismissed it in my head which is why I'm thinking about the option of pulling them out. Because like you say - that year of kindy away from childcare is an equalizer. By the time DD is ready for kinder DS will be in school so was thinking that I may have to adjust work hours for that anyway and it would be easier to work with. Hence my dilemma of do I just pull them both out now and send DS to stand alone kindy that will feed in to a local school (so make friends now)? And send DD to a CC closer to home so that DH & I can share the drop off and pick-up rather than me doing it all because it is attached to my workplace and then put her in stand alone kindy when it is her turn?
All certainly food for thought.... :think:

Kim and Nickle - but my concern is that she will be bored next year while the other children catch up in maturity, but if she spends two years in the older room the second year will be with her peers and they will be at a more even development/maturity level. This is just what I have observed with DS in the same rooms.

I don't know!!

If it was me and my parental instincts were saying she needed to be in the older room, I'd chuck a tanty.

Just a quick note...
The director surprises me. A child should never be bored if the program Is based on the children's interests. It's a requirement of the quality assurance that children's needs and interests are taken into account when providing a program.
Your wishes for your child really need to be taken into account.
If you don't get a place before the start of the year, perhaps she could visit the big room when the ratio allows or when numbers in that room are lower than capacity. It could be put to the director that you'd like your DD to visit her friends and brother. This Is called family centred practice and is a part of what every centre is doing or working towards. Good luck!

Frangipani - what a great idea. I had never thought of that. I think the Director's response was reactive and just trying to put me off as 'yet another parent who thinks their child is more advanced'. I don't think she would really believe it and I know that is not how the program works. But I love that idea of taking her down to the bigger room.

I got the end of the year report for her today and it made me burst in to tears about all this again. The first paragraph is "E has formed a great friendship with (5 best friends listed, with the first 3 that I mentioned in an earlier post). She has a great vocabulary and will voice her opinions, needs and wants. She will often seek out (her best friend) in the mornings to play alongside with before venturing off with other peers." All 5 of those friends are going in to the older room. It then goes on and mentions what she does with indoor/outdoor interests and again mentions her best friend and how they interact and play with each other. It also talks about how she is a leader of her peers, encourages them, comforts them and helps them in all the activities that they do.

I know that they never put any negatives in these reports but I can tell you it reads very differently to my son's at the same age. I haven't yet brought it up with her current room carers, so I might do that tonight and see what they think before I proceed. But this still does not 'feel' right....

Your welcome :-) Those statements are well written and it sounds like your DD is a happy and social child. This info can support your wants and requests for a space or time in the big room.