We are having a bad patch with DS. It seems to come in cycles. He's going through a defiant stage. I give him a warning, then when I say I'm putting him in time out, he hits me or becomes aggressive. Any ideas would help!
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We are having a bad patch with DS. It seems to come in cycles. He's going through a defiant stage. I give him a warning, then when I say I'm putting him in time out, he hits me or becomes aggressive. Any ideas would help!
DD1 has been going through a fairly defiant stage too but not the hitting part (maybe its a boy thing?) so I've been sending her to sit on her bed, and then after a few minutes going in to talk to her and see if there's something wrong, or if she's just being a monster. Can you give your son a firm cuddle to stop him from hitting you, but to gently put him in time out?
Sorry lovely. No real advice I know. I hope its a stage that passes quickly
That sounds like hard work.
Can you extend the time out time if he hits? Tell him firmly that the behaviour is not acceptable and won't be tolerated etc. Consistency and not getting angry yourself seem to help. When calm again, remember to talk it through with him afterwards about his behaviour and what you want to see happen in the future. More importantly, give him positive feedback when he's doing the right behaviour and focus on making a big deal out of this. I think when you're working on behaviour modification, expect the behaviour to get worse, before it gets better. As in, they'll try harder to get a reaction b/c it's no longer working and it takes awhile for them to realise that you're not going to back down etc. You need to be like the swan - all cool, calm on the surface and madly paddling under water to keep the situation from escalating. Good luck, I hope things improve for you soon
My son does this at times, too.
He has triggers, that we can work with.
TV
Salycilates
Stressful events
For dealing with it in the moment, I tell him I will not allow him to hurt people. If he's doing that, we have to leave or he has to remove himself. If he doesn't, I do it - and will put him outside. Then he runs off to scheme a secret way to sneak back inside :rolleyes: But we can talk about it and once he's calmed down he can come in (if he isn't too busy with his secret plans) and the crazy hitting mood is broken.
I don't like the idea of time out and will try time in, with cuddles and talking, etc, but sometimes he just goes nuts and I have to remove him from the situation. I stay with him, though with the screen door between us! There's almost always a reason for his behaviour. It's very often that he needs more attention or is upset about something (and this is often exacerbated by tiredness and/or low blood sugar, so food often helps, too).
Good luck!
Thanks for the replies. It has been getting me down, wondering why and not knowing what to do anymore. I like the idea of putting him outside but knowing him he will scream and probably bang the glass door and throw a tantrum. Will give it a try.
The problem with putting him in his room is its upstairs. That's when he gets violent as I have to put him there. He refuses to move anywhere. Have tried time out in a different room I don't think it's working at the moment.
I think he might be like this because he is bored. We have a one year old baby who needs to nap and he might be getting frustrated staying home on the days he doesn't go to preschool. We've also had some extended family issues that don't affect us but are upsetting. He might be upset about that? I'm not sure.
What do you do as they get older? Taking toys away doesn't work. I do need to stay calm and will work on that. He winds me up then I feel like I have no control after he refuses to cooperate then he hits me when I try to put him in his room. Then I lose my temper.
Any more suggestions would be great as I'm struggling with him at the moment and then it just feels like work instead of fun :(
We've deliberately tried to steer clear of rewards/punishments/bribes/threats as I want the kids to develop the ability to decide for themselves - without external motivation - what is the right thing to do. I have tried these things at times, nonetheless, and found them of limited utility! They don't really work with my DS, anyway.
Getting down and talking to DS helps. Finding out what is motivating his acting out. Also, doing or saying something really silly to break the mood helps. Suddenly he's off on another tangent and no longer being abusive.
Sometimes when I'm really tired or strung out I yell and carry on like a three year old and that doesn't work at all! No one's perfect, hey?
My boys are the same. We were at the end, didnt know what to do with them.
We have bought "the kazdin method" book/dvd and its great. Its a reserach driven method. Not somebodys ideas.
Its changed our focus to the positive things our boys do, and their focus too. I can highly recommend this programme. I havent even finished the book but the results are showing. We still have melt downs but its ok now.
Although the extended family issues may not have directly affected him i know that i am constantly amazed at how much my children pick up on. And if it affects your demeanour then it affects them as well.
If he only becomes aggressive when you suggest time out, then there must be something about the time out that causes that reaction. i.e. separation issue? If he becomes aggressive at other times too, then maybe that's just his last resort.
You are probably right about the boredom issue. Perhaps you can get a few special boxes for times when you think he's about to lose it - we find that a plastic tub with water and food colouring and a few random 'special' toys very useful (they're not special, just that they get put away, so they aren't out all the time). Or get something else that he loves (feathers, dirt, trucks, lego) and keep it separate just for those times.
We do "practice behaviour" as a way to earn extra stars on their star chart.
neither of the boys deal well with "no" for an answer. So we practice.
I explain what we are doing and why, then run through a scenario with 1 of them.
He will "ask" to go to the park
I will say "no, sorry its too late today"
He must shrugg and say ok
We'll practice 3 times, different stuff, then I give them a "high 5" and praise and put the star on their chart.
With our star chart we have a variety of things you can "spend" your stars on. Ie. 4 stars you can get an extra bedtime story. Or 30 stars you can play 30mins on mummys phone.
This is an example of stuff the book runs through.
I haven't got to the punishment part yet. But its a system that trys to focus on the good.
Its a similar theory to "one minute manager" where you catch your subordinates doing things right.
Hugs.
I hope you can get a break through soon. Its a horrible feeling when your kids are playing up a lot
I found this article (still working through it), but it has some ideas you might like . It is from The Natural Parenting magazine.
:
Strong-willed Toddler, No Time-out: What it Looks Like
November 22, 2012
By K. Yvette Price
I’ve been hearing from many parents who use time-out and are tired of hearing that it doesn’t work the way they think it does. The question they ask is, “Well then what do you do?!”
First, I should tell you about my 3-year-old, Logan. I don’t have one of those easygoing children who never makes me feel as though I don’t want to be around her (my eldest Ryleigh, 9, was that way and I still used time-out with her, regrettably). Some tactics Lo employs to let me know I’m not her favorite lady: she spits at me; she screams – SCREAMS – at me…stretches words out and looks me right in the eyes and just shouts; she throws things; she kicks; she hits and punches; she runs away and will. not. return; she takes things after I’ve said no and she doesn’t care; she pushes items from dressers and shelves; she THROWS WATER; she mimics me. I could definitely go on.
Logan is tough and has anger so big it scares both of us. She shakes and stutters when she’s upset; she bounces and her face gets all scrunchy; she balls her fists and breathes so hard through clenched teeth that she spits accidentally.
I see that, and I know – this little girl wants to control herself. She is looking up to me, I am a giant. She thinks I have all the answers, I get everything I want, I know how to control myself. She wants so badly to get along while still getting what she wants. She wants to understand that when she can’t get what she wants, she can still get along. She is trying so hard but her anger is so big. I see all this in her and I check myself. I don’t always catch myself and I yell or I say, “Logan go away!” I’m laughing as I type that but I know it’s not funny. It’s just so frustrating; so please know I understand. Time-out is a much gentler alternative to spanking or yelling…but like spanking and yelling, it strips a child of dignity; it is more about what we want than what the child needs; and it hurts a child’s sense of self.
So, here is my life without time-out:
-I walk away from her.
Why: Because when her emotions get very big sometimes mine do as well, and before I yell I need time. I will attempt to calm her but often she won’t let me help. At those times, I walk away and go to another room where I close the door behind myself. If she is able to hear I will tell her that I am taking a time-out and that when she is ready she may join me to talk.
What She Learns: That when she is upset I understand and I am not mad at her for having big feelings. That I want her to freely express herself but that there are respectful ways to do so. That if she cannot express herself respectfully I will still, always, be here for her but I also need to protect myself, and that sometimes I must step away.
Later: I come out and when she’s quiet we talk about what caused the incident. We discuss better options. We talk about how scary big feelings can be. We hug and she usually apologizes without prompting from me. When she doesn’t apologize it’s no biggie. She’s sorry she hurt me – I know because of our connection to each other. We can speak without words.
- I get nuts, too. When Lo is upset about something that’s not so deep, I know when I can sneak in a laughter attack. I start bouncing and clenching my fists and I show her herself. ”OOOOOHHHHH MY GAWSH!! WHO TOOK THE LAST COOKIE LOGAN?!!! WE ARE SO MAD!!! WE ARE OUTRAGED!!! THIS IS A DISGRACE!! CALL THE COPS, RIGHT? CALL ‘EM NOW! CALL THE FBI, LOGAN! RYLEIGH, GET OBAMA ON THE LINE!!” I act like she is and she she starts to laugh at me, going nuts over a cookie.
Why: Because there are so many instances when Lo loses it over something that I know she just needs to verbalize. If I get upset that she is upset, my actions are what will make our frustration spill over. If I lighten the mood while still showing her I hear her, she calms down enough that I can address it with her.
What She Learns: That Mommy looks very silly being so worked up over who ate the last cookie, and that I should calm down…so she should calm down with me. That I am not upset at her for wanting more cookies, but that sometimes a problem isn’t worth hurting your mother over, haha.
Later: Once we’ve breathed together and centered ourselves I can talk to her. ”Lo the cookies are all gone, Babe. Sorry. We shouldn’t eat so many anyway. Hey when you get upset about that what should you do? It’s not nice to yell and stamp your feet that way. I know how you feel, I LOVE cookies. Why don’t you just tell me how mad you are and we can think of something to do that’s as fun as eating cookies?” Of course in between my statements she’s saying things like, “But I WAND cookies, Mommy!” That’s fine. I don’t expect her to get it immediately. But she is hearing it, and I see it working. And I don’t lose my cool.
- I ignore the behavior and go right about my business.
Why: Because there are times when Lo just wants to fuss, and nothing I do is going to make her quit. Sending her to time-out would only make her stop because she’d feel so badly. Feeling like crap + feeling like crap does not equal better behavior. I don’t want forced, feigned apologies anymore. I want Logan to feel so good about herself and her relationship with me that she wants to behave. When I know she won’t respond and I walk away I am able to talk myself down from my own big, scary emotions. ”Kim, you don’t want to yell. You don’t want to be mean. Just don’t talk. Just wait. She is only 3 years old. She is trying. She really is frustrated, you just don’t understand why right now. So leave her alone. Keep moving. Keep breathing.” I stay near Logan and tune her screams out. So long as she isn’t in danger or endangering anyone/thing, I let her be.
What She Learns: Again, that when I cannot help her, I will not be mean, but that I must also look out for myself – because I am the leader and leaders have to be well in order to lead well. That I am not abandoning her or sending her away. That I do not always have the answers, and that’s okay. That when we are upset, if we allow it to motivate us treat others badly, they have a right to decide to distance themselves from us, and they will decide to if we don’t control ourselves.
Later: When I ignore Lo’s tantrums, most times she stops on her own, suddenly. One minute there’s a banshee cry and the next – nothing. She picks herself up, straightens her little dress, wipes her chubby cheeks, and toddles over to me. ”Mommy, I ang’y now. I very ang’y.” She has been saying this often lately and I am so proud of her. I tell her I know that she’s angry, that I’m sorry she’s angry, and that when she wants me to help her there is no need to spit or kick or scream. She always says, “I know, Mommy. I forgot.” She forgot. She tries but she forgets, and that’s okay. We talk, hug, and laugh. We talk about what made her angry and about other things that make us angry. It’s over in five minutes and no one feels slighted.
- I remove her from the situation immediately, and talk to her (time-in).
Why: I know that because of Logan’s hard outer shell, being upset in public will escalate her anger or frustration. Logan is very self-aware; she seems to understand that other adults feel she’s “bad”. When she gets upset in public her anger is escalated by knowing that others have expectations of her. When I feel her losing her cool I scoop her up and whisper into her ear, “Let’s get some air.” I know it’s probably nicer to ask and when I can, I do. Sometimes though, I know what she needs more than she does. We get outside and often I don’t even mention what she did. We go and talk about the moon, or the man near us with the funny scarf, or how much we miss Gamma, or anything else.
What She Learns: That when we feel overwhelmed in a situation, we should allow ourselves space. We don’t have to expose others to our big feelings all the time. And that even when she shouldn’t expose others to it, her mom is always beside her, not judging, just wanting to help.
Later: We return and she’s calm, and that moment of connection has re-filled both our cups.
- I state what I have to say, and I let it go.
Why: Because sometimes that’s all there is. It’s tough to not lose it when Lo hits another child, or when she is very rude to another adult, or when she throws something. At those times though, I ask myself, “What will get her to understand?” Often, the answer is, “I have no idea.” So sending her to time-out would really just be for my own benefit. I don’t believe it would help her to understand why she can’t do what she’s done. I make statements. I get down at her level and look into her eyes. I speak firmly and calmly. I don’t waiver or sound afraid. ”Logan, you cannot hit anyone, at anytime. We’ve talked about this before. You are hurting someone. Do not do it, okay?” And I let it go. I go on and get back to being Regular Mommy. No grudges, no dragging it out, no forced apologies. She so often will come back and apologize on her own.
What She Learns: That I’m serious, that there is no discussion for this because it’s been discussed. That I still love her and I even still like her, but that certain behaviors are just unacceptable. That I am trying to teach her lessons in a nice way. That we all make mistakes but we must learn to control ourselves.
Later: Nothing. Usually when I make statements I just get up afterward and keep it moving. Yes, this does drive others crazy. They think I’m not “doing anything” or that Logan hasn’t “paid” for her transgression. Tough noodles. I know she’s listening. I believe that she can learn without being shamed or feeling badly. I am willing to talk and talk and talk until she gets it, because this is parenting. It is hard work. It takes time. It exhausts us and brings us to the brink of madness.
But when I do this Logan sometimes looks at me later, and just smiles without words. Or she says, “My mommy so nice.” Or she purses her lips for a kiss. Or she draws me a picture. She has a secure connection to someone and because of that she is able to focus her thinking on these other things – like not hitting, not spitting, not yelling. Of course it’s hard for her and she often falls short. So do I. We are both human. She is my child but she is also my sister. I will treat her as such. Hope this helps.
this reminds me - you could also check out Janet Lansbury's blog for some ideas.