3 wk old can't attach anymore

Hi Barb, after 3 great weeks BF my bub has lost the ability to attach and create a seal. He is sucking in the nipple with his mouth and lips but nothing I do can encourage him to latch on with his bottom jaw and get a good suction. I first noticed milk coming out the sides of his mouth 2 days ago and things have gone downhill since. I've gone back to basics with BL feeding on my naked chest and he can root around and find the nipple but I can still easily pull the nipple from his mouth as there is no suction. I've tried football hold too. While he is still getting milk he is more distressed and needs to feed more often. It's very distressing for both of us and while I'm trying to relax when feeding him I'm pretty uptight about it. I rang the ABA hotline but they said I was trying everything they'd recommend. He's had a snuffly nose mostly from BM and I've been clearing it out regularly with Fess. I also did introduce a dummy early but he isn't that keen and I've stopped using it the last 2 days.
Im putting my nipple just under his mouth on his chin to encourage him to draw it in with his chin but he just sucks it in with his lips. I'm keeping him close with his whole body facing me and supporting his neck and shoulders but keeping his head free to move.
A midwife when I had him in hospital encouraged me to push his jaw/chin down with my finger to improve the attachment and now I'm worried I've damaged it or hurt him in doing so, but he hasn't complained when I did it.
I BF my 2.5yr old until 3 months ago. His nappies are regularly full and he has gained a stack of weight. I've noticed he is passing wind quite a bit more and yesterday his poo contained quite a bit of viscous clear mucus ( a lot like CM prior to ovulation).
Any ideas/advice? I'm going to try to get into the GP today and head to a MACH nurse led early feeding days clinic.

Hi, this must be very concerning and confusing for you. but with out a doubt, with your experience this won’t be a show stopper for you and breastfeeding and you will no doubt go on to feed this baby for a couple of year. Whatever he is doing - he seems to be getting plenty of milk! I wonder if you have a particularly abundant supply? Babies excel at milk flow management. Breastfeeding involves 1. Suction, 2. Baby’s jaw action and 3 your milk ejection. If your milk ejection is very strong then baby doesn’t need to apply much suction or need to work that jaw too much. Is it hurting you? I wonder if it’s worth expressing before a feed to soften the breasts a bit (I’m talking about a little bit)
How many feeds is he having now in 24 hours? Often babies are very mellow (perhaps getting over the birth for the first 2 weeks) and then they tend to wake up and become very demanding. It may not be a bad thing. In terms of attachment, start with your nipple below baby’s nose, brush down gently over his top and bottom lip and get ready to pop it in when his mouth gapes widely - don’t let him suck it in like a strand of spaghetti.
How did his birth go? Was he full term? Is he having a bottle? Or anything other than breastmilk?

I know I'm not Barb, but we've had almost the exact same problem. Do you find you have a lot of milk and a fairly strong or fast letdown? My midwife said that babies whose mother has lots of milk and a forceful letdown will sometimes do what you've described, because the milk is literally falling into their mouth, so a good strong suck isn't essential for milk to enter their mouths lol. I do find that near the end of a feed she'll suck a bit better, same as when she's fed from one breast a number if times. The poo and gas could be related to lots of foremilk also. I've found block feeding really helpful for that :)

ETA oops, there's Barb's answer! Took my ages to write my reply with a baby on the boob lol

I should add I haven't been expressing. Should I start? My breasts feel fine and he seems to be emptying them each feed with persistence by me. I've never really expressed much with DD and I had hoped to avoid it unless necessary.

PZ do you mean cluster feeding re block feeding? We feed every 1.5-3 hours but mostly 2 - 2.5 hourly. Yes I have a good fast supply which came in super fast after my CS.
When I first noticed the problem I described it as DS being a 'lazy feeder' so perhaps that's what's going on. Did you express before feeding? Not sure when I would find the time as it feels like I'm feeding all the time anyway!
Also he is so quick in demanding a feed when he wakes I didn't want to keep him waiting and being distressed while I pump.

Lol I missed your reply too Barb.
Birth was elective CS 2 days past term and we had a blissful time in hospital and recovering at home. He's fed well and often since our first feed in recovery. My breasts are full but not engorged. Probably close to 10-12 feeds a day on average on demand. No bottle feeding. My nipples did get sore about 2 weeks in particularly at their base which got red and a bit swollen, but they are hunky dory at the moment.

It seems we have the same issues. No, I don't express, partly because I don't want to stimulate my boobs to produce any more milk, and like you, bubba feeds often, and doesn't like to wait. I also don't get that full feeling, but they definitely are. Block feeding is feeding only from one breast for a period of time. I go about 4 hours. So during that 4 hours I'll feed DD2 from say the left breast only, as many times as she wants, but only that side. Then swap. Sometimes, depending on how many feeds she has had or if she's been sleeping I'll go out to 5 hours. I've found this has helped enormously with both the sucking (first feed is always a disaster, milk spilling out of her mouth, not a lot of good attachment at all, usually quite short because she gets windy and frustrated) but as they go on the get better, as she gets more hindmilk I find she settles down, and has to attach and suck better. Her nappies have also been better and she hasn't been as gassy.

I was sent this article which helped me a lot :) https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfi...verload-babies

I never found her poos to be green or frothy though, or even super frequent, but the rest has been spot on. Hth.

By express I mean a few squirts into the sink or a cloth nappy to soften the breasts and perhaps draw out the nipples and stimulate your letdown before he attaches. Not a session of sitting there will the pump. If chiropractic is your thing you might get him checked by a good chiro in your area that is experienced with working with babies

I used to just hand express into a face washer to get the first bit of milk out so it wasn't knocking the back of bub's throat out. Did it first, or let bub have a go, get let down, and then catch it in face washer and put bub back on.

Haha oh yeah, when I letdown I just let my boob squirt into a terry nappy, that does seem to help.

All great advice! Thanks so much. Yep PZ it's oversupply and block feeding plus a review of attachment methods for newborns has made a huge difference today. How things can turn around in less than 24 hours :)
I love my MACH nurses too so encouraging.
DD got the added bonus of a small cup of hand expressed foremilk too. A nice treat for her. Her expression was priceless.

That's awesome! I know what you mean about the 24hr turnaround!

What tips did you get on the newborn attachment (if can be arsed writing it lol)? I'd love some pointers, I'm lucky I have nips of steel because I think DD2 would be doing some damage otherwise.

I watched a Sue Cox video (maybe there are some on You Tube or your MACH nurses may have one?) with correct positioning and ideas about different ways to have bub attach around the nipple to drain off different areas. Also the idea that correct positioning can be achieved standing up without any props, that has really helped. It was mostly I'd forgotten how much I need to guide my nipple and position bub's mouth/chin to optimise the attachment and to keep him close. I think the big thing for me was to use two hands and not get distracted by using my phone or other gadgets while feeding him LOL. Feeding and sleeping were much improved overnight and he has stopped being in pain with the wind/explosive poos and his nappies are not so sodden!

We also weighed in and he'd gained 995g in 15 days. The MACH nurses were impressed :)